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Windows 8.1 'Spying and downloading' Official response.

willington

New Member
I recently raised specific questions with my Member of the UK Parliament concerning Microsoft downloading Windows 10 files and updates for windows 8.1, which didn't reveal their true nature, onto my computer without my consent.

Below is the reply my MP received from the CEO )UK) of Microsoft.

25 November 2015
Dear (Member of Parliament)
Thank you for your letter of 28 October, forwarding the concerns of your constituent, Willington, on the subject of Windows 10. I have addressed Willington's questions below. Should you have any further enquiries, I would of course be happy to discuss them with you.

Downloads of Windows 10
Willington raises a question about consent to downloads of Windows 10. To be clear, Windows 10 update installation files were only downloaded to the computers of users who have taken an affirmative action. Specifically, all users who received the Windows 10 update fit within one of the categories below:
 Users who actively chose to receive all recommended updates. When installing earlier versions of Windows (including Windows 7 and 8.1 Update), Windows users were asked to choose how they wanted to set up the Windows Update service; users could choose to install all “recommended updates”, or to be prompted before downloading and/or installing each individual recommended update. Users could then also change their Windows Update preferences after their initial installation of Windows. A number of users who actively chose to receive all recommended updates received the Windows 10 update.
 Users who otherwise actively sought out or initiated the installation of Windows 10. In addition, certain users who chose other settings for receiving Windows updates (for example, users who selected the option to receive notifications before downloading Windows updates), also obtained the Windows 10 update through other affirmative actions. For example, users could go to
www.microsoft.com and download Windows 10. Other users in this category deliberately triggered a download via the Windows Update applet in the Control Panel in order to receive Windows 10 after launch day, or deliberately opted to install Windows 10 after receiving a notification that an upgrade to Windows 10 was available.
Windows data collection

Willington also raises a question about a lack of transparency in relation to updates of Windows 7 and 8.1. Microsoft does allow users to choose to accept updates automatically, and many users choose this option to streamline their experience. But we also provide users with notice and choice about such updates. These updates do not embed spyware on users’ systems, as Willington suggests.
When installing Windows 7 or 8.1 – or at any time afterwards – users can set Windows to automatically install important and recommended updates, or to install important updates only. If users do not want updates to be installed automatically, they can also choose to be notified when updates apply to their computers instead. Then, after receiving each notification, users can choose whether to download and install updates themselves on a case-by-case basis, only following receipt of notifications. We explain how users can change these settings here:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/turnautomatic-updating-on-off#turn-automatic-updating-on-off=windows-7.
To give an example of our updates, starting in May 2015, Microsoft issued a series of updates through Windows Update for Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 that introduced an additional telemetry feature called the Diagnostic and Telemetry service. The Diagnostic and Telemetry service update is described in detail here:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/kb/3022345. This feature collects diagnostic information about functional issues on Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 systems, but only those that elect to participate in Microsoft’s Customer Experience Improvement Programme (CEIP), which is optin. CEIP’s purpose is to collect information about how our customers use Microsoft programmes and about some of the problems they encounter. Microsoft uses this information to improve the products and features customers use most often and to help solve problems. As noted, participation in the programme is voluntary, and CEIP has helped us improve our software to better meet the needs of Microsoft customers. Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 users can make changes to their CEIP participation (including turning it off completely) in the Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program settings page by opening Control Panel in Windows and selecting Action Centre > Change Action Centre settings > Customer Experience Improvement Program settings. Please see https://www.microsoft.com/products/ceip/en-gb/default.mspx for detailed information about CEIP, what information it collects and how users may opt-in and opt-out of its use. The Privacy Statement for CEIP may be found here: https://www.microsoft.com/products/ceip/en-gb/privacypolicy.mspx.
Voice and keystroke data
Willington also queries our voice and keystroke data collection practices. The Diagnostic and Telemetry service update that was distributed to Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 users is not capable of collecting input data for personalisation (either voice data or keystroke data) on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1.
By contrast, the Diagnostic and Telemetry service in Windows 10 is capable of collecting certain voice and keystroke data, and we are transparent with users about this capability. For example, information about that data collection can be found in the Windows 10 Speech, Inking and Typing FAQ. This is linked to from the Speech, inking and typing tab of the Privacy Settings control panel and we also make information about this collection available when Windows 10 is installed.



Where this collection is enabled, we collect this data for a number of reasons, including to correctly recognise user pronunciation, improve character recognition for handwritten words, and to provide users with a personalised dictionary and text completion suggestions.
We apply special security measures to this data. In particular we put this data through rigorous, multipass scrubs to remove sensitive or identifiable fields (e.g., email addresses, passwords, and alphanumeric data), and chop strings into very small bits and strip them of sequence data to prevent the information from being identified or put back together. The user may also use a Stop Getting to Know Me button in the Privacy Settings control panel to clear this type of data from the device.
I hope these answers address your constituent’s concerns.
Michel van der Bel CEO Microsoft UK

Whilst a reply was gratefully appreciated, their response did not cover the specific questions I raised with my MP and highlighted certain inconsistencies, some of which are contradictory to statements made by Executives at Microsoft HQ and Technical journalists. As such, I have asked, and they have agreed, a highly regarded PC publication to analyse and investigate. The results, together with proof, will be forwarded to my Member of Parliament.

I am sure that all of you will have an opinion about the reply my MP received. I consider it a 'Damage limitation' response which contains the Truth, but only part of the truth.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS One 2720
    CPU
    Intel I7
    Memory
    2TB + SSD
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVidea 2Gb
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    MCAfee

broe23

Retired from the grind
VIP Member
Pro User
There is no spying in Windows 8 or Windows 10. The only spying that you have to worry about, is your government in the UK watching for those who may be collaborating or helping ISIS.

Microsoft only collects information on what motherboard and hardware, any third party programs that have issues with Windows or collecting information on what programs & apps that you never use, along with those that you use all of the time.

If you do not want Microsoft knowing your personal profile information, then turn off that setting and never use the computer.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Linux Mint 17.2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Toshiba Satellite C850D-st3nx1
    CPU
    AMD E1-1200 APU with Radeon (tm) HD Graphics 1.40 GHZ
    Memory
    12GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon™ HD 7310 Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LCD
    Screen Resolution
    1366 x 768
    Hard Drives
    Crucial M500 240GB SSD
    Mouse
    Logitech M525
    Internet Speed
    45/6 - ATT U-Verse
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    None needed. It is Linux.
    Other Info
    Arris NVG589 Gateway; Router - Cisco RV320; Switch - Netgear GS108 8-Port Switch & Trendnet TEG-S50g 5-Port Switch; Access Points - Engenius ECB350, Trendnet TEW-638APB; NAS - Lenovo ix2-4; Printer - Brother HL-2280DW; Air Print Server - Lantronix XPrintServer

    A/V UPS - Tripp-Lite Smart 1500LCD 1500 Va/900 W.

broe23

Retired from the grind
VIP Member
Pro User
As for downloading Windows qp. It is their OS and it states in the TOS that by you using their product, the same with Mac OS, Android OS, Chrome OS, iOS, Linux, you allow that company to upgrade their product.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Linux Mint 17.2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Toshiba Satellite C850D-st3nx1
    CPU
    AMD E1-1200 APU with Radeon (tm) HD Graphics 1.40 GHZ
    Memory
    12GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon™ HD 7310 Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LCD
    Screen Resolution
    1366 x 768
    Hard Drives
    Crucial M500 240GB SSD
    Mouse
    Logitech M525
    Internet Speed
    45/6 - ATT U-Verse
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    None needed. It is Linux.
    Other Info
    Arris NVG589 Gateway; Router - Cisco RV320; Switch - Netgear GS108 8-Port Switch & Trendnet TEG-S50g 5-Port Switch; Access Points - Engenius ECB350, Trendnet TEW-638APB; NAS - Lenovo ix2-4; Printer - Brother HL-2280DW; Air Print Server - Lantronix XPrintServer

    A/V UPS - Tripp-Lite Smart 1500LCD 1500 Va/900 W.

willington

New Member
There is no spying in Windows 8 or Windows 10. The only spying that you have to worry about, is your government in the UK watching for those who may be collaborating or helping ISIS.

Microsoft only collects information on what motherboard and hardware, any third party programs that have issues with Windows or collecting information on what programs & apps that you never use, along with those that you use all of the time.

If you do not want Microsoft knowing your personal profile information, then turn off that setting and never use the computer.

Even in the UK, and throughout Europe, we have Laws which protect data being collated without a Court Order. I applaud the British Govt. in protecting this nation by surveilance methods. But this is done within the Laws of this country.

you say that Microsoft only collect limited technical data. If you read the last paragraph of Microsofts letter, it clearly states that they do collect the personal data but then take measures in 'shredding it'. If they don't take the data, how can they shed it?

We apply special security measures to this data. In particular we put this data through rigorous, multipass scrubs to remove sensitive or identifiable fields (e.g., email addresses, passwords, and alphanumeric data), and chop strings into very small bits and strip them of sequence data to prevent the information from being identified or put back together.

Additionally, Microsoft have recently announced the opening of Data Centres based in Germany, a country with the strictest data privacy laws in Europe, to hold data collected from Windows computers within Europe.

It is also notable, that data is still collected from Windows 8.1 computers, despite the settings being set to the contrary. In my case, about 0.6GB per day!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS One 2720
    CPU
    Intel I7
    Memory
    2TB + SSD
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVidea 2Gb
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    MCAfee

willington

New Member
As for downloading Windows qp. It is their OS and it states in the TOS that by you using their product, the same with Mac OS, Android OS, Chrome OS, iOS, Linux, you allow that company to upgrade their product.

Within the UK, we have Legislation, called the Consumer Rights Act...this applies to computer software, apps and even the Operating System.

The legislation stipulates that all notications from the software provider MUST NOT be in 'jargon' but must clearly state in plain English exactly what the software does. This also applies to Updates.

I agree with you that TOS permits Microsoft to provide upgrades to it's Operating Systems. However, when this upgrade is not in relation to the OS in question, but focused to users of Windows 10, then this is not within it's own TOS.

This beggars the questions:.

Do Microsoft now consider Windows 7 and 8.1 only as a transitional step towards activating Windows 10?

By integrating, MS call it upgrading, features used in Windows 10 into windows 7 and 8.1, it is making little sense in staying with the earlier Operating systems. Oh wait! Some of us in Rural areas don't have sufficient Internet speeds to utilize the 'cloud based' nature of either the Upgrades or Windows 10!

Then there is the cost of running 'cloud based' OS's. When Microsoft downloaded 6.3gb of Windows 10 files onto my computer without my permission, nor interest in it, nor advance warning to change settings, (mine were set to accept and download IMPORTANT updates) this cost me over $100 in mobile broadband data allowance.

Windows 10 is an UPGRADE of system, NOT an Update to the existing windows OS.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Dell XPS One 2720
    CPU
    Intel I7
    Memory
    2TB + SSD
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVidea 2Gb
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    MCAfee

broe23

Retired from the grind
VIP Member
Pro User
You really did not have to write a book. Everyone in the U.S. knows that the laws are tighter on Microsoft's way of getting around stuff here in the U.S..

The biggest thing now is that people are staying with Windows 7. Or they are switching over to Linux Mint, if they cannot afford a Mac Book to run Mac OS.

My house is a Windows free zone. Every computer and tablet runs Linux or Inix in one form or another.

As for the whole worry about what Microsoft collects. People need to slow down when setting up an account on a Windows 10 Computer and turn off any items that go above just telling Microsoft what hardware you are using when the OS or a program crashes.

Microsoft pulled a whole bunch of older equipment drivers from the latest Beta. Because they are trying to force people into buying new hardware.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Linux Mint 17.2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Toshiba Satellite C850D-st3nx1
    CPU
    AMD E1-1200 APU with Radeon (tm) HD Graphics 1.40 GHZ
    Memory
    12GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon™ HD 7310 Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LCD
    Screen Resolution
    1366 x 768
    Hard Drives
    Crucial M500 240GB SSD
    Mouse
    Logitech M525
    Internet Speed
    45/6 - ATT U-Verse
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    None needed. It is Linux.
    Other Info
    Arris NVG589 Gateway; Router - Cisco RV320; Switch - Netgear GS108 8-Port Switch & Trendnet TEG-S50g 5-Port Switch; Access Points - Engenius ECB350, Trendnet TEW-638APB; NAS - Lenovo ix2-4; Printer - Brother HL-2280DW; Air Print Server - Lantronix XPrintServer

    A/V UPS - Tripp-Lite Smart 1500LCD 1500 Va/900 W.

broe23

Retired from the grind
VIP Member
Pro User
Everything is clear language at a 6th grade reading level. If you take the time to do your research on the Settings and security protocols for Windows 10. You will find that it is not as big of a deal as you are making it out to be.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Linux Mint 17.2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Toshiba Satellite C850D-st3nx1
    CPU
    AMD E1-1200 APU with Radeon (tm) HD Graphics 1.40 GHZ
    Memory
    12GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon™ HD 7310 Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LCD
    Screen Resolution
    1366 x 768
    Hard Drives
    Crucial M500 240GB SSD
    Mouse
    Logitech M525
    Internet Speed
    45/6 - ATT U-Verse
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    None needed. It is Linux.
    Other Info
    Arris NVG589 Gateway; Router - Cisco RV320; Switch - Netgear GS108 8-Port Switch & Trendnet TEG-S50g 5-Port Switch; Access Points - Engenius ECB350, Trendnet TEW-638APB; NAS - Lenovo ix2-4; Printer - Brother HL-2280DW; Air Print Server - Lantronix XPrintServer

    A/V UPS - Tripp-Lite Smart 1500LCD 1500 Va/900 W.

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