Win8 Prevents BIOS Access

[orlandotek]

Have you tried uplugging your hard drive from the motherboard??

Getting into the BIOS can be more a work of art then anything else.

You can try tapping on the DEL key once per second after you reboot, once per half second, and so forth.

But, the BIOS hands off the boot process to Windows. So, the BIOS starts and THEN Windows starts. I don't see how
installing Windows can keep you out of the BIOS.

 

[pauldknight]

At this stage I'm willing to look past your OS and dig deeper:
You cannot Brick a motherboard by installing an operating system, no matter what.
A motherboard will work and POST even with a hard drive NOT attached, it has no impact. The BOIS is stored on a ROM chip, which in turn stores its setting on an erasable CMOS memory.
The ONLY way to brick a motherboard is by botching a BOIS update, even then you may still recover.
Software installed on a system drive cannot and will not prevent BIOS access.
Software that interacts with the BOIS may change setting in the BIOS, such as Quick Boot, and clock rates, etc. But when the computer is turned on, the BIOS is in full control.
So...
If you cannot get into the BIOS, there must be something wrong somewhere other than the operating system.
Find the evidence; remove the hard drive and see if it POST's.
If it does not; logic tells us that the BOIS has a problem. My course of action to remedy a defective BIOS would be to flash it by downloading an updated version of the BIOS and the utility to flash it from a bootable CD.
I say all this based on your firm belief the the motherboard is not POSTing and "doing nothing".
I would also suspect graphics adapter in the even of a black screen at boot with nothing at all displayed ever.
Tell me: Did you erase the CMOS using the jumper on your motherboard? If you have not done this yet, please do it and report back.

Thank you for your meaningful suggestions, JohnOfE (are you related to StarTrek's Seven-0f-Nine?)

I have disconnected all of my drives (except DVD drive) and started my computer, but this did not help. I have tried everything else suggested by members in 5 online forums. My ASUS P6X58D-E has a "Clear CMOS Switch", instead of jumpers for this purpose so I cannot change any jumpers related to my BIOS.

I first discovered my problem (i.e. No access to BIOS Settings) when I tried to access my BIOS Settings to change the Boot Device Priority so that I could boot from a disk in my DVD drive. So all solutions, such as flashing my BIOS with a bootable CD, will NOT work for me!

Many people say that an OS cannot effect the BIOS, but I believe differently. I understand that Win8 does change settings in the BIOS (such as you said), and I believe that Win8 has changed settings to either (a) stop display of the BIOS messages after POST, (b) ignore any and all key pressing until Win8 loads, and/or (c) lock the user out of the BIOS. Regarding my item (b), some people have reported that Win8 changed the key which is required to access their BIOS, so it seems to me that Win8 could change it to no key. Perhaps this is a problem only for a motherboard which is NOT compatible with Win8, which I believe is the case with my mobo.

I did confirm that my Graphics Adapter (ASUS ENGTS 450 DirectCU/DI/1GD5) was working properly during the first week of my Win8 troubleshooting and it continued to work up until I cleared my CMOS by removing the battery --- although it could have failed after that procedure, I am doubtful.

I believe that I have a great opportunity now to upgrade my 26-month old system with a new motherboard which has UEFI and is "Certified for Windows 8". I want to stick with Intel, so unfortunately I will have to also replace my CPU.

 

[bobkn]

The changes that you refer to would have to be an actual modification of the BIOS EEPROM (electrically erasable programmable read-only memory). The sort of thing you'd do with a BIOS update.

I still find that difficult to believe, but I can't swear that it's impossible.

However, as you're in the US, you can get a pre-flashed replacement BIOS chip from the Asus estore:

BIOS Chip for P6 Series Motherboards

Cost: $15US plus shipping.

I suspect that won't solve your problems, but at least it would show whether it has anything to do with BIOS settings.

If you really want to spend $700 or so on a new X79 board, LGA2011 CPU (I7-3820), and new RAM (quad channel preferred, if not required), then go for it.

 

[Mystere]

While not physically impossible, it is effectively impossible that Windows 8 could make any changes to your BIOS that would not be cleared by resetting the CMOS.

Windows does not reflash your bios, and it doesn't alter your CMOS settings (it can't really, since these settings are different for every board on the market, and related to the specific version of the bios in your computer). It just wouldn't know where any particular setting would be saved. That's not to say that CMOS can't be changed, as this can happen when the OS crashes and it writes to random memory. But at most, this would just corrupt the CMOS, which would be reset when you cleared the CMOS settings.

I really don't care if you think it's possible. It's possible in the same way it's possible you might spontaneously combust. In theory, sure, but damn unlikely. Thus, the problem is likely hardware related. You may argue that this problem occurred after installing Windows 8, but it's FAR more likely that an improbable hardware failure occurred at the same time than it is that Windows has modified your bios in a way that couldn't be recovered by clearing the CMOS.

By the way, your motherboard *DOES* have a clear cmos jumper, but it also has a switch, and the switch is disabled in some circumstances. See:

ASUSTeK Computer Inc. -Support- Troubleshooting P6X58D-E

Note the red notes at the bottom.

 

[Lee]

Charms Bar > Settings > Change PC Settings > General (on left side) > scroll down to last option 'Advanced Startup' > 'Restart Now' button > Troubleshoot > Advanced Options > from here you should see either 'UEFI Firmware Settings' or 'BIOS Firmware settings' or something similar >

Win8 will then automatically reboot directly into your BIOS/UEFI setup

hope this helps
Jason

Still dizzy after reading that. Had to copy it and put into Word so I can use it after I stop spinning.

BTW, "Welcome to the Eight Forums." . . .

 

[labeeman]

Windows does not reflash your bios, and it doesn't alter your CMOS settings (it can't really, since these settings are different for every board on the market, and related to the specific version of the bios in your computer). It just wouldn't know where any particular setting would be saved. That's not to say that CMOS can't be changed, as this can happen when the OS crashes and it writes to random memory. But at most, this would just corrupt the CMOS, which would be reset when you cleared the CMOS settings.

For your information Windows 8 does try to alter CMOS settings.

You'll also see a notice if the processor might not support NX or if NX is turned off in the PC BIOS. Windows 8 Setup will attempt to turn on NX during installation and, if it isn't able to, will return your PC to the current operating system.

What is PAE, NX, and SSE2 and why does my PC need to support them to run Windows 8?

 

[theog]

Charms Bar > Settings > Change PC Settings > General (on left side) > scroll down to last option 'Advanced Startup' > 'Restart Now' button > Troubleshoot > Advanced Options > from here you should see either 'UEFI Firmware Settings' or 'BIOS Firmware settings' or something similar >

Win8 will then automatically reboot directly into your BIOS/UEFI setup

hope this helps
Jason

Still dizzy after reading that. Had to copy it and put into Word so I can use it after I stop spinning.

BTW, "Welcome to the Eight Forums." . . .

Hi Lee

Try this way:
http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/4935-startup-options-menu-boot-windows-8-a.html
or video
Toshiba How-To: Resetting your UEFI Bios Firmware on Windows 8 - YouTube

 

[znod]

UPDATE:
Two weeks ago, I installed Win8 in my two-year-old computer. I have tried countless procedures to try to regain access to my BIOS Settings. Finally yesterday, I tried to reset my BIOS to factory settings as recommended in ASUS online troubleshooting, but I still could not access my BIOS Settings to complete that procedure. NOW MY COMPUTER WILL NOT DO ANYTHING!! Boat anchor anyone??

Today, Microsoft Win8 Technical Support said that they cannot help me because my motherboard is probably NOT compatible with Win8. Thay said that their Pre-Install Compatibility Tests do NOT check our computers' hardware.

Later today, ASUS replied to my earlier email to say that the P6X58D-E may NOT be compatible with Win8.

Has anyone installed Win8 successfully with the ASUS P6X58D-E or similar motherboards, and then been able to access the BIOS Settings?

If not, be warned -- I think that I will have to buy a new motherboard with the new UEFI-BIOS, and a new CPU because of my attempt to use Win8 with this motherboard!!

Did you ever try what I suggested in posts 2 and 13?--before your computer became a boat anchor, of course.

 

[bobkn]

For your information Windows 8 does try to alter CMOS settings.

Can you supply a link that describes that? (Preferably not to another forum discussion.) It'd be quite interesting.

 

[labeeman]

For your information Windows 8 does try to alter CMOS settings.

Can you supply a link that describes that? (Preferably not to another forum discussion.) It'd be quite interesting.

The link that I supplied goes to microsoft.com support page not a discussion page.

 

[Mystere]

For your information Windows 8 does try to alter CMOS settings.

You'll also see a notice if the processor might not support NX or if NX is turned off in the PC BIOS. Windows 8 Setup will attempt to turn on NX during installation and, if it isn't able to, will return your PC to the current operating system.

What is PAE, NX, and SSE2 and why does my PC need to support them to run Windows 8?

That doesn't mean what you think it means. NX is is not "on" even if it's enabled in BIOS. Enabling it in BIOS only allows it to be turned on, if it's disabled in BIOS then it can't be turned on at all.

What that means is that Windows attempts to use the NX bit when creating memory pages, and if it cannot, it fails. It cannot if it's turned off in BIOS. It does NOT mean that it tries to change your bios settings.

 

[bobkn]

For your information Windows 8 does try to alter CMOS settings.

Can you supply a link that describes that? (Preferably not to another forum discussion.) It'd be quite interesting.

The link that I supplied goes to microsoft.com support page not a discussion page.

Since the page in the link made no mention of Windows 8 changing the BIOS settings, I thought that you were referring to something else.

 

[pauldknight]

For your information Windows 8 does try to alter CMOS settings.
You'll also see a notice if the processor might not support NX or if NX is turned off in the PC BIOS. Windows 8 Setup will attempt to turn on NX during installation and, if it isn't able to, will return your PC to the current operating system.
What is PAE, NX, and SSE2 and why does my PC need to support them to run Windows 8?

Thank you, labeeman
You are the first online forum member to agree with me that Win8 can change the BIOS Settings!!

 

[pauldknight]

The changes that you refer to would have to be an actual modification of the BIOS EEPROM (electrically erasable programmable read-only memory). The sort of thing you'd do with a BIOS update.
I still find that difficult to believe, but I can't swear that it's impossible.
However, as you're in the US, you can get a pre-flashed replacement BIOS chip from the Asus estore:
BIOS Chip for P6 Series Motherboards
Cost: $15US plus shipping.
I suspect that won't solve your problems, but at least it would show whether it has anything to do with BIOS settings.
If you really want to spend $700 or so on a new X79 board, LGA2011 CPU (I7-3820), and new RAM (quad channel preferred, if not required), then go for it.

THANK YOU, bobkn, for telling me that I can replace my BIOS chip!! I did not know that this was possible. I have confirmed that mine is "Removable", and I have ordered a new BIOS chip for my P6X58D-E Mobo. I do think that this will solve my problem!

Once I can access my Boot Device Priority, I will use my "Windows PE CD" to restore my last Macrium System Image Backup for "Windows 7". I will format my System Drive (in my wife's computer) before I attempt the Restore, to ensure that Win8 does not lock me out of my BIOS again.

I will postpone any further Win8 installs until sometime later after I have upgraded my system with a "Certified for Windows 8 (or 9?) Motherboard".

Thank you again for giving me hope that I can bring my current system back to life! Considering my bad luck recently, I hope that my rescued system will not spontaneously combust!

 

[pauldknight]

Did you ever try what I suggested in posts 2 and 13?--before your computer became a boat anchor, of course.

Yes, thank you, znod, I did try your suggestion. "Fast Startup" was actually "Off" originally. So, I turned it "On", and then followed your suggested procedure.

I am sorry that I did not reply earlier, znod. I have tried every and all suggestions (except those that require changes in Boot Device Priority) from many members in 5 different online forums, but none of them have helped so far. Today I learned from bobkn that I can buy a new BIOS chip for my Mobo and I am hopeful that this will solve my prolem. If not, I will get back to my online searches for a new Mobo and CPU.

 

[labeeman]

For your information Windows 8 does try to alter CMOS settings.

You'll also see a notice if the processor might not support NX or if NX is turned off in the PC BIOS. Windows 8 Setup will attempt to turn on NX during installation and, if it isn't able to, will return your PC to the current operating system.

What is PAE, NX, and SSE2 and why does my PC need to support them to run Windows 8?

That doesn't mean what you think it means. NX is is not "on" even if it's enabled in BIOS. Enabling it in BIOS only allows it to be turned on, if it's disabled in BIOS then it can't be turned on at all.

What that means is that Windows attempts to use the NX bit when creating memory pages, and if it cannot, it fails. It cannot if it's turned off in BIOS. It does NOT mean that it tries to change your bios settings.

Windows limits the use of firmware services as much as possible to help ensure system reliability. Although most interaction with the firmware occurs during the boot process, Windows can also interact with firmware at run time.

http://download.microsoft.com/downl...38-459C-A8BA-88CA43E0D0CF/UEFI-Windows-8.docx

 

[bobkn]

For your information Windows 8 does try to alter CMOS settings.



What is PAE, NX, and SSE2 and why does my PC need to support them to run Windows 8?

That doesn't mean what you think it means. NX is is not "on" even if it's enabled in BIOS. Enabling it in BIOS only allows it to be turned on, if it's disabled in BIOS then it can't be turned on at all.

What that means is that Windows attempts to use the NX bit when creating memory pages, and if it cannot, it fails. It cannot if it's turned off in BIOS. It does NOT mean that it tries to change your bios settings.

Windows limits the use of firmware services as much as possible to help ensure system reliability. Although most interaction with the firmware occurs during the boot process, Windows can also interact with firmware at run time.

http://download.microsoft.com/downl...38-459C-A8BA-88CA43E0D0CF/UEFI-Windows-8.docx

Interesting, but I don't see any mention of the OS modifying UEFI settings, much less messing with the motherboard's EEPROM.

pauldknight's X58 system has a BIOS rather than UEFI, anyway.

 

[labeeman]

Windows limits the use of firmware services as much as possible to help ensure system reliability. Although most interaction with the firmware occurs during the boot process, Windows can also interact with firmware at run time.

http://download.microsoft.com/downl...38-459C-A8BA-88CA43E0D0CF/UEFI-Windows-8.docx

Interesting, but I don't see any mention of the OS modifying UEFI settings, much less messing with the motherboard's EEPROM.

pauldknight's X58 system has a BIOS rather than UEFI, anyway.

Windows can also interact with firmware at run time. That tells me that it can read and write to cmos.

 

[Mystere]

Interact does not mean change.

DOS interacts with the firmware, by calling an interrupt vector and executing code that's in ROM. The same is true of all OS's, either they need to know all the hardware registers, or they need to interact in the standard defined mechanism.

This is not the same thing as changing BIOS settings. the BIOS CMOS is BIOS defined, and what values are where changes from version to version. Merely upgrading your firmware would effectively make your computer unusable if Windows actually tried to use the CMOS directly.

All you're doing is speculating. Yes, it's *possible* for Windows to change the CMOS settings. It wouldn't do this deliberately, but sometimes a nasty crash can cause CMOS corruption. But, be that as it may, simply clearing the CMOS would fix that. The problem presented here is the claim that Windows has permanently modified their bios somehow in a way that clearing the CMOS doesn't fix.

 

[Teerex]

Windows can also interact with firmware at run time. That tells me that it can read and write to cmos.

Read - yes. Write - no. Windows can also ignore some BIOS registers, and apply a microcode update on the fly at runtime, but writing to BIOS is a no - no.