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Win 8.1 Fresh Install Problems - cannot see SSD


fstr

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10
#1
I bought a new HP x360. As expected it comes with a slow drive loaded to the gills with bloatware. So I planned from the beginning to install a fresh copy of 8.1 on a SSD.
I used a new SSD and without doing too much reading created a bootable usb from the 8.1 upgrade with key link. Unbeknownst to me is that the win 7 machine I used (where I previously created a usb key for win 8 pro) is also a pro install that retained the previous key. It never asked for a key when creating the usb. So I ended up with a pro install on the HP laptop and I could not enable the key associated with the laptop.
Thus I started over. I tried various things to create a non-pro usb and had a lot of problems and tried various things. I ultimately succeeded in creating a x64 core 8.1 usb. Now my challenge is that I cannot see the SSD anymore. Even in diskpart I cannot see the ssd. At some point while the ssd was still available (but my install usb did not work due to wrong key) I ran diskpart with the following:
clean
create partition primary
select partition 1
active
format fs=ntfs
assign

Since then I could not see the ssd

I have tried the following:
Put original disk back in. Install Paragon. Clone install over to ssd. Put ssd back in laptop. "No bootable device found"

Put ssd in win 7. Run diskpart. Clean All. Convert GPT.

It is possible the problem lies in the bois. The model laptop is brand new. I updated the bios (it was 2 versions old). But HP site had no explanation of what changed in bios.
I also enabled legacy support.

BTW the only way I can create a bootable usb is with Zotac WinUSB maker. Even with win7 usb maker the drive is not recognized. With Zotac I can enable EFI. If I create the image without EFI the laptop does not see it (again even if legacy support is enabled).

So to summarize;
With official 8.1 upgrade image and fresh SSD I could install
After that with 8.1 iso and drive cleaned with diskpart I cannot see drive

Any help? Please!!

EDIT: I tried again with the upgrade win 8.1 with product key and it worked again. Then I again tried with the ISO. I used a guide on this forum for Rufus and using 7-zip. But it still will not recognize the ssd. I get "a media driver your computer needs is missing". A common problem for this is using usb3. I tried with usb 3 and 2. When I shift=f10 and list disk I do not see the ssd.
 
Last edited:

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    8.1/7

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#2
A lot of PC's will require that the bootable thumb drive be formatted in the FAT file system to install Windows in UEFI. The Windows 7 DVD Download Tool formats them in NTFS. It's what I use to create my install thumb drives but my laptops UEFI BIOS is fine with NTFS. The clean all command usually fixes issues like this. Deleting all the partitions usually works for me. Does the SSD show up in the BIOS? If it doesn't Windows will never see it.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition Deneb 3.7GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS M4N68T-M V2 µATX Motherboard
    Memory
    8GB 4GBx2 Kingston PC10600 DDR3 1333 Memory
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Geforce GT640 2 Gig DDR3 PCIe
    Sound Card
    VIA VT1708s High Definition Audio 8-channel Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    22" LG E2242 1080p and 2 19" I-INC AG191D
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024 - 1920x1080 - 1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    Crucial MX100 256 GB SSD and 500 GB WD Blue SATA
    PSU
    Thermaltake TR 620
    Case
    Power Up Black ATX Mid-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Stock heatsink fan
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless K350 Wave
    Mouse
    Logitech M570 Trackball and T650 TouchPad
    Internet Speed
    80 Mbps Down 30 Mbps Up
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    HP DVD1040e Lightscribe - External USB2

fstr

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10
#3
A lot of PC's will require that the bootable thumb drive be formatted in the FAT file system to install Windows in UEFI. The Windows 7 DVD Download Tool formats them in NTFS. It's what I use to create my install thumb drives but my laptops UEFI BIOS is fine with NTFS. The clean all command usually fixes issues like this. Deleting all the partitions usually works for me. Does the SSD show up in the BIOS? If it doesn't Windows will never see it.
I use fat32 but also tried ntfs.
I tried the win7 usb download tool too
I tried clean all
I tried deleting all partitions
HDD shows up in bois if I enable legacy support. Then I can also see it in boot options, but as soon as I boot the installer iso it's gone
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    8.1/7

fstr

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Posts
10
#4
So to re-iterate. I can boot to the ssd (it's got pro installed with wrong product key). But as soon a as I boot to the usb the drive cannot be detected.
If I clone the ssd from the original it is not visible to the laptop
 

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System One

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    8.1/7

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#5
I'm lost as to what's going on. If it helps there is a change key option on the system page. Windows Logo key plus the pause/break key, lower right corner.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition Deneb 3.7GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS M4N68T-M V2 µATX Motherboard
    Memory
    8GB 4GBx2 Kingston PC10600 DDR3 1333 Memory
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Geforce GT640 2 Gig DDR3 PCIe
    Sound Card
    VIA VT1708s High Definition Audio 8-channel Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    22" LG E2242 1080p and 2 19" I-INC AG191D
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024 - 1920x1080 - 1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    Crucial MX100 256 GB SSD and 500 GB WD Blue SATA
    PSU
    Thermaltake TR 620
    Case
    Power Up Black ATX Mid-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Stock heatsink fan
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless K350 Wave
    Mouse
    Logitech M570 Trackball and T650 TouchPad
    Internet Speed
    80 Mbps Down 30 Mbps Up
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    HP DVD1040e Lightscribe - External USB2

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#6

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition Deneb 3.7GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS M4N68T-M V2 µATX Motherboard
    Memory
    8GB 4GBx2 Kingston PC10600 DDR3 1333 Memory
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Geforce GT640 2 Gig DDR3 PCIe
    Sound Card
    VIA VT1708s High Definition Audio 8-channel Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    22" LG E2242 1080p and 2 19" I-INC AG191D
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024 - 1920x1080 - 1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    Crucial MX100 256 GB SSD and 500 GB WD Blue SATA
    PSU
    Thermaltake TR 620
    Case
    Power Up Black ATX Mid-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Stock heatsink fan
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless K350 Wave
    Mouse
    Logitech M570 Trackball and T650 TouchPad
    Internet Speed
    80 Mbps Down 30 Mbps Up
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    HP DVD1040e Lightscribe - External USB2

fstr

New Member
Posts
10
#7
Thx for the assistance. I have already used the first link to create a rufus and 7-zip usb. Also familiar with the steps in the other 2 links. Because I installed pro it does not allow the oem key in the bois.
I do believe the bios is borked.
The only option I can still see is to use the upgrade tool (which works) but run it from a win 7 home premium machine (which I have) and obtain a usable temporary non-pro key (which I do not have)
 

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    8.1/7

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#8
If you downloaded from here, http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/18309-windows-8-windows-8-1-iso-download-create.html?filter the key you enter determines what edition you get. Enter a Pro key and you get Pro, enter a Core key and you get Core. Normal install media like my TechNet ISO's are multi edition. They can install Core or Pro depending on what Product code you use. That download doesn't work that way, it also won't accept OEM keys. You need a Retail key to do the download. If I read what you said correctly, you have 8 Pro installed but your OEM key is a Core key. If that is true then yes, change key will not work as it will want another Pro key. You need to reinstall with the Core version of that download or get your hands on a Retail DVD. My TechNet 8.0 ISO will read and use my laptops 8.0 OEM BIOS key automatically. Its a Core key so that's what gets installed. My 8.1 TechNet ISO's won't use the 8.0 OEM key though, they want an 8.1 key. You can do this though to get around that. http://www.eightforums.com/installa...retail-windows-8-1-windows-8-product-key.html
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition Deneb 3.7GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS M4N68T-M V2 µATX Motherboard
    Memory
    8GB 4GBx2 Kingston PC10600 DDR3 1333 Memory
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Geforce GT640 2 Gig DDR3 PCIe
    Sound Card
    VIA VT1708s High Definition Audio 8-channel Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    22" LG E2242 1080p and 2 19" I-INC AG191D
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024 - 1920x1080 - 1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    Crucial MX100 256 GB SSD and 500 GB WD Blue SATA
    PSU
    Thermaltake TR 620
    Case
    Power Up Black ATX Mid-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Stock heatsink fan
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless K350 Wave
    Mouse
    Logitech M570 Trackball and T650 TouchPad
    Internet Speed
    80 Mbps Down 30 Mbps Up
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    HP DVD1040e Lightscribe - External USB2

fstr

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#9
Yes - you understand correctly I used a win 8 pro key to create the image I was able to install. But then I am left with a pro install I cannot downgrade.
Like I said I need a core key AND create the image from a win 7 home premium edition for it to work (hopefully!). Now where to find a key I can borrow......
*Mini Rant* Why does MS always make it so difficult to own legal software?

BTW - when you say Technet ISOs, are you talking about the Windows 8 enterprise ed.?
 

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#10
No, I can get regular Windows 8 ISO's that will install 8 Core or 8 Pro on TechNet along with a separate Enterprise edition. I run 8.1 Enterprise on my laptop and 8.1 Pro on my desktop PC. The keys I get for Core and Pro are listed as Retail keys. That's how I know that download is edition specific. I tested it with a Pro key and a Core key and got two different downloads.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition Deneb 3.7GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS M4N68T-M V2 µATX Motherboard
    Memory
    8GB 4GBx2 Kingston PC10600 DDR3 1333 Memory
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Geforce GT640 2 Gig DDR3 PCIe
    Sound Card
    VIA VT1708s High Definition Audio 8-channel Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    22" LG E2242 1080p and 2 19" I-INC AG191D
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024 - 1920x1080 - 1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    Crucial MX100 256 GB SSD and 500 GB WD Blue SATA
    PSU
    Thermaltake TR 620
    Case
    Power Up Black ATX Mid-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Stock heatsink fan
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless K350 Wave
    Mouse
    Logitech M570 Trackball and T650 TouchPad
    Internet Speed
    80 Mbps Down 30 Mbps Up
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    HP DVD1040e Lightscribe - External USB2

fstr

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Posts
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#11
Even if all drives are removed the machine is capable of booting to a recovery win 8 shell. When bringing up the boot options I can see an option "boot from EFI file".
It appears that the recovery "shell" (complete with command prompt and regular recovery options) is stored in the bios chip.
So it would appear that the "shell" is what is used to boot, and the shell is only capable of seeing the original hdd, and not the ssd.
When inserting a usb boot drive. The "boot from EFI file" option returns 2 options to select. The one as described above and one that points to the usb.
I can only conclude that there is a bug in the bios of this machine.
I contacted hp support to explain that if I could not install a new drive it would be a problem if the drive fails. But of course they offered no help
 

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#12
Even if all drives are removed the machine is capable of booting to a recovery win 8 shell. When bringing up the boot options I can see an option "boot from EFI file".
It appears that the recovery "shell" (complete with command prompt and regular recovery options) is stored in the bios chip.
So it would appear that the "shell" is what is used to boot, and the shell is only capable of seeing the original hdd, and not the ssd.
When inserting a usb boot drive. The "boot from EFI file" option returns 2 options to select. The one as described above and one that points to the usb.
I can only conclude that there is a bug in the bios of this machine.
I contacted hp support to explain that if I could not install a new drive it would be a problem if the drive fails. But of course they offered no help
I find that hard to believe. I'm not calling you a liar but I'm skeptical. With no drives connected select the "boot from EFI file" option and see what happens. If you create a bar bones Recovery thumb drive in Windows 8.1 its something like 300 MB. Way to big to fit in any BIOS I have seen so far. All my USB install thumb drives show those two options on my laptop that has a UEFI BIOS. One is UEFI mode and the other isn't. On my other PC's with regular BIOS I only get the one boot option for those drives.
I'd look for a utility from the drive makers web site to Zero the drive and have another go.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition Deneb 3.7GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS M4N68T-M V2 µATX Motherboard
    Memory
    8GB 4GBx2 Kingston PC10600 DDR3 1333 Memory
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Geforce GT640 2 Gig DDR3 PCIe
    Sound Card
    VIA VT1708s High Definition Audio 8-channel Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    22" LG E2242 1080p and 2 19" I-INC AG191D
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024 - 1920x1080 - 1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    Crucial MX100 256 GB SSD and 500 GB WD Blue SATA
    PSU
    Thermaltake TR 620
    Case
    Power Up Black ATX Mid-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Stock heatsink fan
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless K350 Wave
    Mouse
    Logitech M570 Trackball and T650 TouchPad
    Internet Speed
    80 Mbps Down 30 Mbps Up
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    HP DVD1040e Lightscribe - External USB2

fstr

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#13
Maybe not a liar but definitely and idiot :sarc:
OK so boot without any drive and I just get the message - no boot drive found. So I guess it does boot from the hdd. But then the same is true for the ssd - it does load the boot files from the ssd and then tell me it does not find the drive...

ITO what I see in the boot options. Like you explained it lists the usb twice - one as UEFI and once s just regular old usb. But then there is also the option to boot from file. It lists this option whether I have to ssd or the hdd installed. And it also lists usb as one of the file options if inserted.

Drive is a crucial m500. Seems there are no utilities available from Crucial to factory reset the drive. And unfortunately I do not have any other 7mm drives available for testing
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    8.1/7

Tews

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#14
The only option I can still see is to use the upgrade tool (which works) but run it from a win 7 home premium machine (which I have) and obtain a usable temporary non-pro key (which I do not have)
Use these dummy keys to install 8.1, then activate it with your 8.0 key..

Core: 334NH-RXG76-64THK-C7CKG-D3VPT
Professional: XHQ8N-C3MCJ-RQXB6-WCHYG-C9WKB

hope this helps ;)
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    64-bit Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus CM5675
    CPU
    IntelCore i5 3.20Ghz
    Motherboard
    Asus CM5675
    Memory
    6.0Gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel HD integtrated
    Sound Card
    SB Audigy
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung 24'
    Screen Resolution
    1900x1080
    Hard Drives
    Segate 1tb
    Intel 120Gb SSD
    Internet Speed
    100mb down /10mb up

fstr

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#15
Based on your suggestion I moved from investigating the bios to looking at the drive. Seems the m500 have what is called PSID which is a sort of security key. And I think after the initial install of win 8.1 pro it associated the install with the key and loaded the key in the bios. Seems what is needed is PSID unlocker. Secure erase will not do it. And none is supplied.
 

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    8.1/7

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#16
Isn't the PSID for encryption? I don't think its linked to your product key at all. I have two M4's in my laptop. I've switched from 8.0 to 8.1 Pro and am now running 8.1 Enterprise, all UEFI. My embedded OEM key is for 8.0 Core. I deleted partitions, recreated new ones and formatted them several times doing clean installs no problem. I know that doesn't help you but I thought I'd mention it.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition Deneb 3.7GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS M4N68T-M V2 µATX Motherboard
    Memory
    8GB 4GBx2 Kingston PC10600 DDR3 1333 Memory
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Geforce GT640 2 Gig DDR3 PCIe
    Sound Card
    VIA VT1708s High Definition Audio 8-channel Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    22" LG E2242 1080p and 2 19" I-INC AG191D
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024 - 1920x1080 - 1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    Crucial MX100 256 GB SSD and 500 GB WD Blue SATA
    PSU
    Thermaltake TR 620
    Case
    Power Up Black ATX Mid-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Stock heatsink fan
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless K350 Wave
    Mouse
    Logitech M570 Trackball and T650 TouchPad
    Internet Speed
    80 Mbps Down 30 Mbps Up
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    HP DVD1040e Lightscribe - External USB2

fstr

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Posts
10
#17
When I said key in the previous post I meant the PSID key, not windows key. Without knowing the right verbiage, what I mean is that the PSID is associated with the install and the bios somehow associated the drive/psid/install with each other. Something like that...
In any case, I ordered another drive with fast shipping. If I get time I will try a new install on a different drive tomorrow and report back.
Thanks for the help
 

My Computer

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    8.1/7

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#19
If the BIOS doesn't detect it no OS will see it. Sounds like a BIOS issue to me.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition Deneb 3.7GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS M4N68T-M V2 µATX Motherboard
    Memory
    8GB 4GBx2 Kingston PC10600 DDR3 1333 Memory
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Geforce GT640 2 Gig DDR3 PCIe
    Sound Card
    VIA VT1708s High Definition Audio 8-channel Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    22" LG E2242 1080p and 2 19" I-INC AG191D
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024 - 1920x1080 - 1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    Crucial MX100 256 GB SSD and 500 GB WD Blue SATA
    PSU
    Thermaltake TR 620
    Case
    Power Up Black ATX Mid-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Stock heatsink fan
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless K350 Wave
    Mouse
    Logitech M570 Trackball and T650 TouchPad
    Internet Speed
    80 Mbps Down 30 Mbps Up
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    HP DVD1040e Lightscribe - External USB2

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