Will they get away with Defender?

SIW2

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There is vast amount of money at stake.

Not sure how MS is going to try and get away with this one.
 

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Indeed, this should be interesting, SIW.

Still, MS is already giving away MSE (renamed Defender in Win 8) for free so I think the course of action that will eventually be taken will be to allow an uninstall of defender and an install of an AV of one's choice.

I'm glad MS is building Defender in on the pre-beta builds though.
 

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I doubt. MS's burnt its fingers with WMP and IE bundled. So after N and E versions we might see D (without defender).
 

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McAffee, Norton and the oem's in particular could be seriously out of pocket.

The oem's argue their take from selling pre installed trials ( largely the a/v S ) helps keep the unit price down.

If people realise they don't need to buy McAffe when it pops up after 30 days saying the trial is up - that is tens of millions of dollars.

I understand the oem's get most of it - don't know the precise figure , could be 75-80% , plus the same on renewals.

Do the math - Michael Dell alone sells 30 million machines a year.

If only 1 in 10 buy the a/v at $30 , then renew at $20 - you get the picture.

I have a suspicion it much more than 1 in 10 .
 

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Hi, Aaron. :)

Can't say I've ever used MSE on my own machine (until now with Win 8 8102) but I have installed it on many other machines for others.

To me, the incarnation of Defender looks the same.

As far as disabling it, other than going into services, just as many here didn't realize it was even installed, I don't see an obvious way to fully disable it.
 

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Doesn't matter if it can be done.

Fact is - it is included .

That is MS using it's dominance to erect barriers to competition.

I am not sure it is the competition authorities that will be the difficulty here - oem's and the a/v makers are more likely to scupper it.
 

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I never used Vista, Aaron. I skipped over it and went to Win7.

Still, is that any more obvious than understanding Defender is now MSE in Win 8 8102?

One has to go to "Program Files\Defender\MSASCui.exe" to get to the interface. Otherwise, it's all automatic.

Really, what's the difference between MSE and the new incarnation of Defender in 8102?

I'm not attempting to start a fight here, just seeking clarification, Aaron.
 

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How does one define a monopoly? Suppose MS decided to beef up its disk management console so it started doing all (or most) of the things now possible only with partition wizard/paragon and such like. Would that be monopolistic? It can be argued that creating/formatting/resizing/shrinking/extending/merging partitions is an inherent part of OS installation and maintenance.

I suspect it depends on who the affected 3rd parties are. Partition wizard/paragon chaps probably have neither the financial muscle nor the financial stakes to chase the issue. AV vendors are a different category.
 

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Still, what's the difference with Defender, as it is in Win 8102 as compared to MSE in Win 7 and earlier?

I still have seen no real clarification.

As far as I can tell Defender in Win 8 8102 is nearly identical to MSE in Win 7.

Aaron brought up something about "network" something or other but that appears to be covered in other areas of Win 8 8102.

Again, I'm not attempting to start a fight, just seeking clarification on Aaron's previous posts related to this matter and his uncharacteristic Super Mod way of going about it.
 
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Well, one way the new Defender is different from and would probably NOT be removable completely is that it is supposed to interface with secure boot on UEFI systems. Secure boot is MS's way of authenticating boot components which will apparently ensure that only signed and validated code makes it way upto the OS loading.
 

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Thanks, Bill, still, MSE is built into Win8 8102 under the name of "Defender."

From what you presented, it seems even better than MSE in Win 7.

Again, I have yet to see anything that indicates, intrinsically, it's any different or lacking anything MSE in Win 7 offers.

Basically, MSE is built into Win 8 8102 with benefits, right?

The interface, to me, is practically identical.
 

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When I finished installing Win 8, I automatically installed an AV (in this case MSSE). Are you guys saying that this is not necessary with the present build ?
 

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I wouldn't be using Defender in a corporate environment, so the facility to uninstall - or not install - is a useful one. If it proves to be as robust and as up to date as the competition - i.e. with regards viral signature distribution - then I think it will be a great boon to the Windows world. For corporate use, I need central administration, monitoring and frequent updates.
 

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You can use MSE in win8 instead of Defender (still now I don't know what Defender in win8 look like @@). May Defender will be switched with MSE.
I will try Norton Internet Security, hope it works :D
 

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You can use MSE in win8 instead of Defender (still now I don't know what Defender in win8 look like @@). May Defender will be switched with MSE.
I will try Norton Internet Security, hope it works :D

Defender in Win8 is practically identical to MSE.
You don't need MSE in Win8 8102.109 pre-beta.

How many times do I have to present this?
 

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When I finished installing Win 8, I automatically installed an AV (in this case MSSE). Are you guys saying that this is not necessary with the present build ?
Yup. :D
 

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Thank you. It was an automatic action, LOL.
 

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I don't view an antivirus the same as media player or a browser as its sole purpose is to maintain and protect the integrity and security of the Operating System , its not a third party application ?

I reckon including the AV in windows builds could well become a given and if the user wants to add their own security they can ?

Interestingly It would place the owness totally onto Microsoft which means they could potentially be held liable for any security breach if their inbuilt security failed to keep user information safe ?
 

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I always used MSE in windows 7 with no problems. Windows Defender in w8, is identical to MSE as far as I can tell so I'll just carry on using it. I can't see the point in installing another anti virus.
 

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