Will Microsoft restore Start Menu to Windows 8?

[kmint]

B

And I am still using W8 Release ....

So now I have the best of both 7 and 8. Fast as 8, nice, easy and logical as 7.

Ya but your "best" will come to an end soon with the Preview

I hope that by then, Aero Glass will be around in some sort of patch, hack or program.

In any case, I will problably move on sooner or later. But Aero Glass in Windows 7 made of Windows a beautiful swan when Windows was an ugly ducklin since it was born. I don't know why they have removed something so successful and accepted, not leaving it as an option.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
can someone please explain the Developers logic of designing something like Live Tiles and then give the user no way of viewing these on a desktop -- for example if I'm working on a spread sheet or a presentation document it would be quite nice to have the Stocks tile updating on the desktop. - It's totally USELESS updating this stuff in the background.

I can't believe these developers didn't get a chance to speak with some USERS before this stuff was let out of the door. Most development usually involves "The business" and the developers -- as far as Windows is concerned we the normal users are "The business" in this case.

I'm currently only testing W8 because I have a TechNet W8 enterprise -- the only really useful feature I've found is "Windows to Go" where you can add some applications and it's a good recovery tool since you can add backup / restore programs, partition managers, etc and booting via a USB3 port makes it perfectly acceptably fast anyway -- and if you are doing a recovery this really isn't an issue in any case.

There used to be a decent "Quasi legal" windows system which did this type of stuff known as Hiren's CD - I think this piece of software is now not legal any more due to proprietary products being included in it -- but the Windows to go is 100% LEGAL and works fine.

For my normal work I'm sticking with W7 -- if you tune it up a bit and switch off things like Hibernation W7 can run just as good as W8.

Cheers
jimbo

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Coke Robot]

Hi there
can someone please explain the Developers logic of designing something like Live Tiles and then give the user no way of viewing these on a desktop -- for example if I'm working on a spread sheet or a presentation document it would be quite nice to have the Stocks tile updating on the desktop. - It's totally USELESS updating this stuff in the background.

I can't believe these developers didn't get a chance to speak with some USERS before this stuff was let out of the door. Most development usually involves "The business" and the developers -- as far as Windows is concerned we the normal users are "The business" in this case.

I'm currently only testing W8 because I have a TechNet W8 enterprise -- the only really useful feature I've found is "Windows to Go" where you can add some applications and it's a good recovery tool since you can add backup / restore programs, partition managers, etc and booting via a USB3 port makes it perfectly acceptably fast anyway -- and if you are doing a recovery this really isn't an issue in any case.

There used to be a decent "Quasi legal" windows system which did this type of stuff known as Hiren's CD - I think this piece of software is now not legal any more due to proprietary products being included in it -- but the Windows to go is 100% LEGAL and works fine.

For my normal work I'm sticking with W7 -- if you tune it up a bit and switch off things like Hibernation W7 can run just as good as W8.

Cheers
jimbo

Cheers
jimbo

Snap the Finance app next to your spreadsheet. Or, unless if you ABSOLUTELY need to be seeing updated info every second of the day, just hit the Start key from time to time and see if there are new updates. Then hit Start back to the Desktop.

 

[area 66]

COKE why you refuse the reality, Metro Start Page , should run on a floating window and re sizable. They fire Sinofsky because it was a bad idea.

 

[Hopachi]

COKE why you refuse the reality, Metro Start Page , should run on a floating window and re sizable. They fire Sinofsky because it was a bad idea.

Sounds logic.

I use Win8, works great but sorry if I'm offending with this:
METRO forces the removal of Desktop. Otherwise all tiles should run seamlessly on the two.

That's what you can see yourself by using Win8 and then reading Jimbo's first lines of post:

can someone please explain the Developers logic of designing something like Live Tiles and then give the user no way of viewing these on a desktop -- for example if I'm working on a spread sheet or a presentation document it would be quite nice to have the Stocks tile updating on the desktop. - It's totally USELESS updating this stuff in the background.

That's the way it goes.

You can look it the other way around if you like : Desktop forces the removal of METRO.
The switch between the two is a canyon: it's easier to stay on one side or the other, why jump in between?
Honestly I do all my work on the Desktop. I consider the tiles as art, decorating screen real-estate. I like them this way, and they can stay there in my opinion. The start screen is full of desktop apps anyway.

Why is the OS called Windows? because you can use resizable (+ minimize, maximize) windows on the screen. Or at least that was the thing initially.
With Metro, we seem to be running on OS called Walls. And it seems that fortress walls are not close to what the windows were.
We'll just have to use what we like best.

If the switch between Desktop and Metro becomes smaller, Then we can keep Metro and I'll be in favor of it.

 

[area 66]

With Metro, we seem to be running on OS called Walls.

lol, this make my day

 

[Hopachi]

With Metro, we seem to be running on OS called Walls.

lol, this make my day

Think about it:
If we're allowed to place some windows on those walls, then the place will be filled (with light) and everybody will be happy.

Backwards compatibility, at least optional because too much people complain.
That's all.

 

[area 66]

NO worry "help is on the way" as Bush said..... Balmer is already working on the presentation of the Surface replacement

The Balnux

 

[BarnabasSackett]

Voice command may reach maturity very soon also.

That will make life in a cubicle farm really interesting with everyone yelling at their computer. Even if everyone is wearing a headset, the murmur will be as obnoxious as in customer service call center.

 

[Hopachi]

NO worry "help is on the way" as Bush said..... Balmer is already working on the presentation of the Surface replacement

The Balnux

View attachment 11625

Who comes up with this stuff, it's hilarious.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Voice command may reach maturity very soon also.

That will make life in a cubicle farm really interesting with everyone yelling at their computer. Even if everyone is wearing a headset, the murmur will be as obnoxious as in customer service call center.

Come on now....A bit of exaggeration here, wouldn't you say?!

1st -> Cubicle farm? I'm in my office or study with the door closed if need be. Lol! I can understand -> "What's that?" -> "Oh, that's just grandpa talking to his computer". We don't wonder at people walking around with smart phone Bluetooth headsets, do we? Not real commonplace, but a reality today. It'll be the same with speaking navigation. Mark my words. Besides, this greatly aids the less-fortunate handicapped.

2nd -> Yell? No one needs to yell, just speak at a regular volume. Who needs to yell?

3rd -> Call center? Do you hang around in call centers? I don't know anyone that does that as a regular pastime. Not only in an office or study, but if one is in a restaurant, coffee shop, bar, etc. people are "mumuring" already, so what's the difference if one is speaking to a device for navigation?

I was old enough to see the debut of 2001: A Space Odyssey in 1968 as a teenager. No one thought it odd that Dave was talking to HAL. We thought it possible. This is before PC was even an acronym. We didn't think it possible that a machine could take control some day. Or is it?

I don't know about anyone else, but I think anything to be possible when we humans put our minds to it.

 

[Coke Robot]

COKE why you refuse the reality, Metro Start Page , should run on a floating window and re sizable. They fire Sinofsky because it was a bad idea.

They might had fired Sinofsky for many reasons, not because of that. Mind you, he didn't want to make Windows 7 more touch friendly to begin with.

I don't know, how I'm seeing it, it's more or less like a folder you open that shows the apps, but apps that have live tiles to them. It's almost like taking gadgets on putting them in a window. Then how does one open, for example, Weather? There is more info to it other than the current temperature, there is a detailed 10 day forecast, hourly forecast, and detailed weather maps. That would need to take a good window for that to render neatly. For some apps, like People, it almost seems like it's more tedious and almost superfluous than anything as you can just open up a browser window and go to facebook, or open Outlook. Actually, it sounds like running an emulator.

 

[Coke Robot]

COKE why you refuse the reality, Metro Start Page , should run on a floating window and re sizable. They fire Sinofsky because it was a bad idea.

Sounds logic.

I use Win8, works great but sorry if I'm offending with this:
METRO forces the removal of Desktop. Otherwise all tiles should run seamlessly on the two.

That's what you can see yourself by using Win8 and then reading Jimbo's first lines of post:

can someone please explain the Developers logic of designing something like Live Tiles and then give the user no way of viewing these on a desktop -- for example if I'm working on a spread sheet or a presentation document it would be quite nice to have the Stocks tile updating on the desktop. - It's totally USELESS updating this stuff in the background.

That's the way it goes.

You can look it the other way around if you like : Desktop forces the removal of METRO.
The switch between the two is a canyon: it's easier to stay on one side or the other, why jump in between?
Honestly I do all my work on the Desktop. I consider the tiles as art, decorating screen real-estate. I like them this way, and they can stay there in my opinion. The start screen is full of desktop apps anyway.

Why is the OS called Windows? because you can use resizable (+ minimize, maximize) windows on the screen. Or at least that was the thing initially.
With Metro, we seem to be running on OS called Walls. And it seems that fortress walls are not close to what the windows were.
We'll just have to use what we like best.

If the switch between Desktop and Metro becomes smaller, Then we can keep Metro and I'll be in favor of it.

Actually, Windows can still be called Windows, more or less how Windows 1 was called Windows.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

NO worry "help is on the way" as Bush said..... Balmer is already working on the presentation of the Surface replacement

The Balnux

View attachment 11625

Who comes up with this stuff, it's hilarious.

Go ahead and poke fun. I find it funny in a way.

Has anyone noticed that MS is loosing their butts to a "TOUCH-NAVIGATION" market? No? Let me clue you in -> iMe Fruit Company and others are winning. They are raking in $millions$ because consumers are buying. Wouldn't one think it's time to change the business plan?

I believe MS designed 8 (and the Surfaces) with much more creativity than the Fruit Company and others could ever muster up. I understand the "wall" whole heartedly and with much thought. Sincerely! I think it to be genius to aim for TOUCH NAVIGATION while keeping the desktop. They couldn't possibly combine the Start Screen with the desktop. Please use common sense here. Two different UIs. There's got to be a "wall" to divide the two. Can we at least see it as a compromise to appease everyone? Can one continue to run win32 legacy programs in "Windows" on their desktops? Certainly. Is switching to a Start Screen rather than a Start Menu distracting? Perhaps, but so is every change that comes along in our lives, but with a little discipline we adapt. Do we become less "productive" because of it? I don't see it with what I do business-wise, but then again, I don't sit in front of a computer all day, so it's really not for me to say.

I can see the hierarchical problem of the Start Screen versus the Start Menu. I think MS needs to address this in a big way. If one wants to complain to MS about anything, it's this.

I can understand that we would want information at all times in our face. It's the way it's been, but again, with a little discipline all we have to do is hit the WinKey once to look and once again to return to what we were doing. Is this so difficult? Does this put a big strain on our minds and bodies? Is it that much less productive? Have we become that spoiled? Hopefully we haven't.

Alice Cooper wrote a song "No More Mister Nice Guy". Well, no more nice Mr. MS. Times are tough and the market has changed. Expect TOUCH as main navigation. Expect leaner OSs with far less personalization. Expect that our desktop PCs are no longer the most sought after devices. Expect to pay for programs included with past OSs -> MS can't afford it anymore. As more and more software is written in the Modern interface, expect to buy it through the MS Store. First and foremost -> Expect more change to come.

 

[Hopachi]

Actually, Windows can still be called Windows, more or less how Windows 1 was called Windows.

Sounds fair to me. Just tried to compare a full screen (wall) vs multiple stacked windows.
So the name doesn't really matter as long as you can use the OS.
Keep adapting to the new changes and you'll be alright.

Alice Cooper wrote a song "No More Mister Nice Guy". Well, no more nice Mr. MS. Times are tough and the market has changed. Expect TOUCH as main navigation. Expect leaner OSs with far less personalization. Expect that our desktop PCs are no longer the most sought after devices. Expect to pay for programs included with past OSs -> MS can't afford it anymore. As more and more software is written in the Modern interface, expect to buy it through the MS Store. First and foremost -> Expect more change to come.

In that case: Windows guys should respect their OS a bit more.
I'm OK with that.

 

[Coke Robot]

Well, what I mean more or less about Windows 8 still being Windows doesn't really do much in part with the full screen apps. It's the Start Screen that is the new Windows, with live tiles. If you look at a screen full of live tiles, those would be your windows on the Desktop. The mail app cycles through new email and shows how many you have. The People app shows you social network notifications as well as having a full list of your contacts. The Calendar app shows you what you have on your agenda a day before and day of. Other news apps with live tiles will show new articles without having to open them. You can even have picture tiles in a little live tile or span many tiles. So on and so forth. If the live tiles were translated over to the Desktop, you'd have multiple windows open. You'd need a browser window or an email client to show new email, where you have to be hitting refresh in the browser to update it. You also need a new browser window or tab to show facebook notifications, as well as needing another window to show your contacts within your user account or using Outlook. The calendar would need to be another browser window or tab to see what's on the agenda for that day, or Outlook or another email client with a calendar. To see picture slideshows, you might want to have a window for that or find the Picture gadget and keep that pinned on top of everything. For news feeds, you'd need different windows or tabs, eventually those tabs end up being like the App Switch bar in Windows 8 where you might have to hover over the browser icon on the Taskbar to find that tab, or window. All of which you'd need to be hitting refresh from time to time in ALL of them. When all is said and done, you would have a Desktop FULL of windows open, where you need to be switching around and refreshing and snapping and saying, "Oh hells bells!" from time to time.

But with the Start Screen and live tiles, those multiple windows that are all over the place simple turn into little tiles that show all of that fairly neatly and without much interaction. Shoot, when you have all those tiles in place, the Start Screen starts to look like a window pane!

 

[SIW2]

How it sells will affect what changes (if any ) MS make.

If it sells well - they will think they can keep doing what is best for MS and the customers will put up with it.

If it sells badly, they will be thinking about making changes.

 

[mctonale]

Personally I have resisted any urge to install start8 (or any other start menu hacks). I was more than happy with windows 7 but bought 8 so I could play with and learn windows 8 not to hack it back into windows 7.

The start screen is the biggest... well most obvious (and I will admit, at first, most inconvenient) change but I have spent some time configuring it, have already gotten used to it and also find some of the features useful. If they do bring back the option of the start menu and boot to desktop there will be very little use for the start screen and it will have a negative affect on "store" sales, this is why I can't see them doing it.

 

[SIW2]

Yes, that's right.

If there was a start menu - there would little use for the start screen. (For desktop users at least )

Then MS would lose out in selling their online services and soon to be introduced subscription charges.

Finally somebody is getting the picture.

 

[Hopachi]

Yes, that's right.

If there was a start menu - there would little use for the start screen. (For desktop users at least )

Then MS would lose out in selling their online services and soon to be introduced subscription charges.

Finally somebody is getting the picture.

I'm not using any apps, but the Start Screen does a good job so far.
You can type something anywhere and launch the search. Works similar as start menu.

But if the start menu returns: us desktop users will be happy.
What I really like, even with a start screen, is built in ability to go directly to desktop on startup.