Will Microsoft restore Start Menu to Windows 8?

[DeaconFrost]

It's annoying to have to download a third party software.

I completely agree, but that, to me, wouldn't be a deterrent from using Windows 8. If anything, the more people using these 3rd party apps, the more likely Microsoft would see the need/demand to put the Start Menu back in....or...

In my opinion, offer users a choice. Much like some Linux distros give you a choice for UI options, give the user a choice during and after the install. On some devices, maybe I'd want to boot to the Metro interface. On others, maybe I'd prefer to boot to a standard desktop.

 

[area 66]

It's annoying to have to download a third party software.

I completely agree, but that, to me, wouldn't be a deterrent from using Windows 8. If anything, the more people using these 3rd party apps, the more likely Microsoft would see the need/demand to put the Start Menu back in....or...

In my opinion, offer users a choice. Much like some Linux distros give you a choice for UI options, give the user a choice during and after the install. On some devices, maybe I'd want to boot to the Metro interface. On others, maybe I'd prefer to boot to a standard desktop.

Good point, Microsoft realize that we use third apps, they have 3 choices;

1- let it this way, risking to make the OS less stable, not a great choice
2- the Sinofsky way; block the third apps
3- But back them self the option, this will please the customers, win win situation

 

[Mystere]

It's annoying to have to download a third party software. I will prefer it's built in Windows so it can be update at the same time I update Windows.

It's NOT going to happen. Get over it. No matter how much you complain. No matter how much you rant. No matter how much the tiny 5% of the market that will be PC users over the coming years scream, it won't happen.

The PC market is dying, stagnant cesspool. It will never go away, but mobile and other touch aware devices are going to account for > 80% of the market in the coming years.

 

[SIW2]

Area66 does not rant or scream.

He is making a point in a perfectly reasonable fashion.

You are right in a sense. Talking about it may be something MS picks up - but a much better method of getting them to give the customers what they want is to refuse to recommend what they are pushing.

@Deacon

I am not sure that is the case.

The 3rd party programs which make win8 just about usable for many people may be making things worse.

Their existence means some will actually buy and use win8 - which otherwise they wouldn't.

Gives MS completely the wrong impression.

 

[area 66]

Mystere , your case is more severe than I tough , 5% ..... , I will say 50% and I'm generous

 

[Mystere]

I was wrong. Mobile devices (not counting touch screen PC's) are ALREADY 80% of the market. In 2011, more than 1.7 Billion mobile devices were sold, while only 352 Million PC's were sold in the same time frame. That's 19.8% of total device sales are PC's, and that number is going down.

In 2010 there were 1.5 Billion Mobile devices sold and 350 Million PC's, which made PC's 23% of the market.

PC sales are down 8% in the third quarter this year, and largely flat in the 2nd Quarter (having trouble finding first quarter for some reason).

Overall, the mobile figures include both smart phones and non-smartphone devices (including tablets, but also non-smart phones). But this number represents the potential market of smart phones and tablets.

Meanwhile, smartphones sales have grown by 40+ percent year over year for several years. And tablet sales are going through the roof.

Yeah, Microsoft knows what they're aiming Windows 8 at. And this will *NOT* change. The market is just too vast and lucrative for Microsoft to screw it up by altering Windows 8 to suit a small percentage of PC users (Let's say as much as 20% of PC users dislike the new OS, that's 20% of 20% of their total market. In other words, 4%... at most. And probably closer to 1% or less.

The *ONLY* bone Microsoft might throw to PC users is that they could fork off Windows 8 from the Windows 7, and continue to sell Windows 7 in the coming years. I would expect Windows 7 to be a dead-end though, with no new versions of Windows designed for this market.

I don't expect that will be likely either, given that this would hurt their adoption of Metro.

 

[pparks1]

Mystere,

The market is indeed changing. People are enamored with Tablets. They sell like crazy. Personally, I own one (Asus Transformer), have used many of them and simply don't care for them. I think tablets are "ok", as a supplemental device..but for me, that's as far as they go. However, many others just use their PC's as web consumption devices and they get by just fine with a tablet and even a smartphone.

I think there must be quite a few more people like me, who use a tablet, but also have a need for a PC as well...or at least a desire to use a PC. I have a hard time believing that everybody really wants a touchscreen interface to Windows.

I think down the road, as touchscreens evolve, things will improve. But in the present state, I find Windows 8 to be more of a pain than a pleasure to work with.

 

[Mystere]

I think there must be quite a few more people like me, who use a tablet, but also have a need for a PC as well...or at least a desire to use a PC. I have a hard time believing that everybody really wants a touchscreen interface to Windows.

I think down the road, as touchscreens evolve, things will improve. But in the present state, I find Windows 8 to be more of a pain than a pleasure to work with.

Yes, and Microsoft thinks there are lots more people like you as well, which is why they want a single unified OS that has the same interface on all devices, and runs the same apps on all devices. That's entirely the point.

Why should a user have to use a different UI on a phone, tablet and PC? Why should they have to buy different apps for each? Why should they have to remember which OS they're using?

Certainly, some of that argument can be made for the split-brain mode of Windows 8 today, but remember.. that's just transitionary.

In reality, one should thank Microsoft Office for the fact that Microsoft has retained the standard desktop at all, particularly on ARM devices. If Microsoft didn't need to run Office on it, it probably would be gone as well.

 

[Coke Robot]

If this is the only thing holding people back from Windows 8....just use one of the many free alternatives.

It's annoying to have to download a third party software. I will prefer it's built in Windows so it can be update at the same time I update Windows. Third party applications are more prone to additional bugs. For now I'm using Classic start menu, not for the menu but for remove the hot spot. I don't need a new menu the start page do the job in my case. So I have to unnecessary mod my OS just to disable something I don't need.

Then...why not simply use the Start Screen and put the start menu items on it?

 

[Coke Robot]

Mystere,

The market is indeed changing. People are enamored with Tablets. They sell like crazy. Personally, I own one (Asus Transformer), have used many of them and simply don't care for them. I think tablets are "ok", as a supplemental device..but for me, that's as far as they go. However, many others just use their PC's as web consumption devices and they get by just fine with a tablet and even a smartphone.

I think there must be quite a few more people like me, who use a tablet, but also have a need for a PC as well...or at least a desire to use a PC. I have a hard time believing that everybody really wants a touchscreen interface to Windows.

I think down the road, as touchscreens evolve, things will improve. But in the present state, I find Windows 8 to be more of a pain than a pleasure to work with.

Have you played around with the new tablet PCs running Windows 8? I know you seem to try out different devices, I'm simply wondering, and ask since using touch with Windows is actually phenomenal. Some things need improvement, like on the Desktop, but overall is just impressive.

I like your signature, it reminded me of those few times where I ACTUALLY had to convince people to dump vista and switch to 7.

 

[pparks1]

Yes, and Microsoft thinks there are lots more people like you as well, which is why they want a single unified OS that has the same interface on all devices, and runs the same apps on all devices. That's entirely the point.

Unfortunately, some of us don't find the new interface particular useful or efficient on a desktop. Without a touchscreen, many of these UI changes are just not intuitive. And why not put in an OPTION for those of us who would use Windows 8 strictly on non-touchscreen desktop to just not display the Start Screen and instead show a start menu. This would really have resolved many complaints. Thus, if you wanted everything the same go with the default, and if you wanted it different you could have that too.

Microsoft hasn't gotten any money from me on this release of the OS, I'm sticking with Windows 7. I've used my MSDN copy on a couple of testing machines and have a VM setup for testing software problems that are reported at my company, but that's all I plan to use at present. Even for a modest $39 I cannot be persuaded to upgrade. I don't view it as a technical step forward.


Windows 8 seems to just be half baked in lots of areas. It has some advantages, no doubt about it. But then it's got things that are lacking, functionality that doesn't work as expected (like fact that Sharing feature won't share pics to Facebook that come from local folders...but it does work from Skydrive). http://www.eightforums.com/network-sharing/10200-how-share-photos-facebook-2.html

 

[pparks1]

Have you played around with the new tablet PCs running Windows 8? I know you seem to try out different devices, I'm simply wondering, and ask since using touch with Windows is actually phenomenal. Some things need improvement, like on the Desktop, but overall is just impressive.

No, I have not played with Windows 8 on a tablet PC.
1). I don't care for tablets, I don't like touchscreens. Even on my new Galaxy S3, I miss my physical slide out keyboard from my Droid 2. I'm dealing with it because I like many other facets of the GS3...but I don't prefer it.
2). I'm not going to spend $500-$1000 on a Microsoft tablet to try it out. It's simply too expensive of a learning experience. In this price arena, I'm inclined to stay with a full featured full blown PC or laptop. Thus far, the $250 Samsung Chromebook has been the best alternative for me personally to a laptop for web consumption and content creation.

 

[area 66]

For now I'm using Classic start menu, not for the menu but for remove the hot spot. I don't need a new menu the start page do the job in my case. So I have to unnecessary mod my OS just to disable something I don't need.

Then...why not simply use the Start Screen and put the start menu items on it? [/QUOTE]

I'm using the Start Page, I install it to remove the hot corner as I always have them in my way when I work and they pop up.

 

[kmint]

I was so sick of Metro, Charms and Corners that returned to Windows 7. Then I remembered that I have an old laptop and that Windows 8 runs much better and faster, so I returned to Windows 8.

But I purchased Start8 and got the old menu back. It is not perfect but it is good enough, with good customization. I even made my own cool Start button. I also disabled the %&%$&%$ charms bar and corners.

And I am still using W8 Release Preview because I like Aero and dislike the new all-flat and claustrophobic Windows 8 final.

So now I have the best of both 7 and 8. Fast as 8, nice, easy and logical as 7.

I used Metro Start Menu for many months, so I was used to it and I was very open and early adopter, but it is just absurd after some time when you have too many applications installed. It is just crazy. Even organizing in folders is difficult and complicated. You want to keep the main apps in the first screen, but it becomes impossible and soon you see yourself doing the most stupid idea in computers ever; scrolling horizontally from a minimal scroll bar at the bottom everytime you need to open something not frequent.

Horizontal scrolling is so absurd. Microsoft just wanted to have a cool design, own personality, and made the classic idea of the poor designers trying to be modern and cool; doing the opposite of normal, which is the opposite of a good idea for some reason.

The All-Programs menu is just a joke. It will show very single file in those installation folders, so you have hundreds of totally useless files shown in the Start Menu. Try to find the program you want to open in that massive amount of irrelevant icons. It's easier to find Wally than the icon you need.

No matters how we could try to accept or explain it, those ideas in Windows 8 are unacceptable, absolutely wrong and annoying, a waste of time and a nerves cracker.

Windows 8 with the new tweaks is fine. Else is too irritating and absurd.

 

[ecevit]

I agree with kmint. The new interface isn't easy to use. Full screen metro applications are annoying. I installed start8 and got back start menu.

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[Mystere]

I used Metro Start Menu for many months, so I was used to it and I was very open and early adopter, but it is just absurd after some time when you have too many applications installed. It is just crazy. Even organizing in folders is difficult and complicated. You want to keep the main apps in the first screen, but it becomes impossible and soon you see yourself doing the most stupid idea in computers ever; scrolling horizontally from a minimal scroll bar at the bottom everytime you need to open something not frequent.

You appear to do everything the hard way. You can use your mouses scroll wheel to easily scroll through the start page. I find it much easier, however, to just open the start menu and start typing the first couple of letters and the app is right there. Takes half a second to find anything you are looking for, no matter how many apps you have installed.

Further, you can group programs in the start menu however you want. You only need to go to All Programs when you need something that isn't on the main start page.

I really don't see the issue with whether or not scrolling is horizontal or vertical. Why is this such a huge issue? It works the same either way.

 

[area 66]

B

And I am still using W8 Release ....

So now I have the best of both 7 and 8. Fast as 8, nice, easy and logical as 7.

Ya but your "best" will come to an end soon with the Preview

 

[Philgates]

Microsoft seems so tablet-obsessed with Windows 8 and think they are missing the big picture... Microsoft is so focused on the tablet story that it makes me a little concerned about how Microsoft will make the PC as big as possible." Bob O'Donnell, an analyst at IDC, noted that Microsoft has been selling software used in tablets and slates for 10 years with limited success. IDC said only about 1.4 million Windows-based tablets, slates and convertible laptops were sold in 2010. By comparison, IDC recently revised its forecast for 2011 to say that there will be 63 million media tablets sold in 2011, with nearly 70% of them iPads.

O'Donnell said he recognizes that tablets are in fashion, but that Microsoft's long-term future is going to be more dependent upon laptops and desktops. "At the end of the day, the question remains what device are you going to use to get your work done, and the answer is almost always the PC desktop or laptop," O'Donnell said. "If Microsoft wants the biggest audience, it will be with devices that have keyboards and mice, with touch second."

O'Donnell predicted that in 2015, Microsoft will still be a small player with tablets, behind Android and iOS. He said it is somewhat ironic that the Samsung Series 7 Slate that was given to 5,000 developers at Microsoft's Build conference this week is almost always depicted with an attachable keyboard in Samsung photographs. - PC Advisor

Clearly even top analyst's are sceptical on Microsoft's Windows 8 and market strategy, it's my view that Microsoft will in the end have to get rid of this bloody nonsense they have bolted onto our desktop windows, it's not even a success on their mobile devices, how could a company of this size, have got things so badly wrong!!............

Read more: Will tablet developers rush to Windows 8? - PC Advisor

 

[area 66]

....... how could a company of this size, have got things so badly wrong!!............

Because they trust the vision of only 1 guy and they don't listen other than this same guy "Sinofsky", I get this since a year, Balmer was to stupid to see it come, and also Bill Gates don't even care anymore. We can say a lot of bad thing about Steve Jobs ( and I did) , but at least he leave is vision until the end, not like Bill Gates ( I never tough I will say that one day of Steve Jobs)

 

[kmint]

I used Metro Start Menu for many months, so I was used to it and I was very open and early adopter, but it is just absurd after some time when you have too many applications installed. It is just crazy. Even organizing in folders is difficult and complicated. You want to keep the main apps in the first screen, but it becomes impossible and soon you see yourself doing the most stupid idea in computers ever; scrolling horizontally from a minimal scroll bar at the bottom everytime you need to open something not frequent.

You appear to do everything the hard way. You can use your mouses scroll wheel to easily scroll through the start page. I find it much easier, however, to just open the start menu and start typing the first couple of letters and the app is right there. Takes half a second to find anything you are looking for, no matter how many apps you have installed.

Further, you can group programs in the start menu however you want. You only need to go to All Programs when you need something that isn't on the main start page.

I really don't see the issue with whether or not scrolling is horizontal or vertical. Why is this such a huge issue? It works the same either way.

I don't use a mouse, only the touchpad. I mean I NEVER use a mouse, only when I do some graphic design and need high accuracy. So I have no scroll wheel. Microsoft (and most designers) forget that lots of people don't use a mouse now a days.

Still, I consider that whole Metro design a terrible fail. I tell you that I liked it somehow, because I like new things, and it was a refreshing change for a Start Menu. But in time when I had too many apps in a 15" laptop, it was a mess, a waste of time...