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Why Debate 8?


Mustang

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#1
With RTM release imminent, why are the discussons so passionately intensifying re the success/failure of Win8? Is each side trying to convert the other; or simply on an ego trip to win their point? Why not just let it rest now and wait see what the consumers have to say?

There is an old Greek fable which may be pertinent. A group of the wise elders of the community had been heatedly debating for days on end how many teeth a donkey had. A stable hand, who happened to be passing by, heard the discussion and asked why they didn't just get a donkey and count the number of teeth?

The elders had him taken outside and flogged for insubordination and lack of respect. Seems the elders simply liked arguing for the sake of arguing.

Just a thought! :)
 

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SIW2

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#2
Any feedback now is not going to change the rtm build.

That is not the point.

A few people here are trying to explain what win8 is for. That is for the benefit of the potential consumers.



There has also been much debate about the UI changes - that is a separate point.

There are a few who love the Metro thing , and seem desperate to persuade everyone else to love it too.

I haven't the slightest idea why they find it hard to handle that not everyone likes it.
 

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Mustang

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#3
I can understand the valid purpose of trying to show newcomers to Win8 how to use it.

And obviously it's use by date is up in trying to influence any changes by MS in RTM.

As to the impact of this forum on influencing potential buyers, it would be interesting to have stats on how many members of the general public actually read forums like this? My guess would be mostly geeks, and those involved in the industry.

As to the fan boys trying to persuade others to like it, if true, they are either over enthusiastic because they love it; sales promoters; or rigid in their outlook.

Rigid persons only feel comfortable about themselves if they striclty adhere to their own self-imposed beliefs and rules. And they project that attitude onto other persons. Consequently they find it intolerable that others who don't conform to their standards appear comfortable in their "misbeliefs"; and feel it is their life mission to set such non-conformers straight. They display the classic dictator attitude as opposed to the live and let live principle.
 

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Arpan

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#4
Why Debate 8?

Because this forum named "Eight Forums" exists and I guess one of it's purposes is that.

Each member is entitled to give his own personal opinion about windows 8. Forums are there for that purpose. This is no exception. Some like 8, some don't. Why do you like or dislike 8? I guess, not just because its called "Windows 8"? There must be some reason why one likes or dislikes, isn't it? The debate, therefore, automatically comes into play. No one is arguing here for the sake of arguing.
 
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Mustang

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#5
Why Debate 8?

Because this forum named "Eight Forums" exists and I guess one of it's purposes is that.

Each member is entitled to give his own personal opinion about windows 8. Forums are there for that purpose. This is no exception. Some like 8, some don't. Why do you like or dislike 8? I guess, not just because its called "Windows 8"? There must be some reason why one likes or dislikes, isn't it? The debate, therefore, automatically comes into play. No one is arguing here for the sake of arguing.
That's all true. But the point I'm making is that it's all been debated to death, and the deal's done, so why not now just wait for RTM to hit the streets? Then go from there.

With all due respect, going through the threads, the same things for and against seem to just keep repeating with slight variations, in one form or another, ad infinitum.
 

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Arpan

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#6
Why Debate 8?

Because this forum named "Eight Forums" exists and I guess one of it's purposes is that.

Each member is entitled to give his own personal opinion about windows 8. Forums are there for that purpose. This is no exception. Some like 8, some don't. Why do you like or dislike 8? I guess, not just because its called "Windows 8"? There must be some reason why one likes or dislikes, isn't it? The debate, therefore, automatically comes into play. No one is arguing here for the sake of arguing.
That's all true. But the point I'm making is that it's all been debated to death, and the deal's done, so why not now just wait for RTM to hit the streets? Then go from there.

With all due respect, going through the threads, the same things for and against seem to just keep repeating with slight variations, in one form or another, ad infinitum.
Yes, I agree that its better to keep quite now and wait for the final W8.

Same things are bound to get repeated with slight variations, since no one reads each and every thread fully and remember what was posted where. Everyone tries to make his point with reference to a particular post.
 

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Phone Man

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#7
There are a few who love the Metro thing , and seem desperate to persuade everyone else to love it too.

I haven't the slightest idea why they find it hard to handle that not everyone likes it.
I agree but:

There are a few who HATE the Metro thing , and seem desperate to persuade everyone else to HATE it too.

I haven't the slightest idea why they find it hard to handle that not everyone HATES it.
I guess it is human nature to want to convince everyone to your way of thinking. There have been some good discussions on here, then the arguments start and I just ignore those thread after that. We will be getting a look at the RTM shortly and see how it goes.

Jim :cool:
 

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Mustang

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#8
Same things are bound to get repeated with slight variations, since no one reads each and every thread fully and remember what was posted where. Everyone tries to make his point with reference to a particular post.
That's a fair point, but most of the questions related to the actual OS are pretty well covered in the excellent tutorials by Brink. Maybe FAQs could be added?

My reference is more about the endless to and fro arguments re whether Win8 will succeed or fail. They are speculative in nature, and until the RTM is for sale, just blowing smoke.

Without wishing to disparage any one individual, it is noticeable that half a dozen or so of the same members' names keep re-appearing regulary in different threads, but with the same theme.
 

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SIW2

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#9
Interesting point.

As to the impact of this forum on influencing potential buyers, it would be interesting to have stats on how many members of the general public actually read forums like this? My guess would be mostly geeks, and those involved in the industry.
Hard to quantify, but more important than you might think.

We will be telling our friends and family about it. Workmates, too. In my case, that extends to hundreds of people.

Bloggers pick up on what the enthusiasts are saying, some of them also write for the pc mags. Those who write for the pc mags ( and are not bloggers) will also be watching.

Some of them are the very journalists who the national papers will turn to for their articles on computer related stories.


PC mag journalists are not daft. They know the industry ( and their own mag income, and consequently their own jobs) depend on brisk sales.

Because of that, they will try to present it in the best light - but they will be mindful of the criticisms.



As to the fan boys trying to persuade others to like it, if true, they are either over enthusiastic because they love it; sales promoters; or rigid in their outlook.

Rigid persons only feel comfortable about themselves if they striclty adhere to their own self-imposed beliefs and rules. And they project that attitude onto other persons. Consequently they find it intolerable that others who don't conform to their standards appear comfortable in their "misbeliefs"; and feel it is their life mission to set such non-conformers straight. They display the classic dictator attitude as opposed to the live and let live principle.

Quite sad, really
 

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Coke Robot

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#10
I agree. Debating Windows 8 is just futile as it has yet to be in the hands of the consumer.
 

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Mustang

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#11
Interesting point.
As to the impact of this forum on influencing potential buyers, it would be interesting to have stats on how many members of the general public actually read forums like this? My guess would be mostly geeks, and those involved in the industry.
Hard to quantify, but more important than you might think.

We will be telling our friends and family about it. Workmates, too. In my case, that extends to hundreds of people.

Bloggers pick up on what the enthusiasts are saying, some of them also write for the pc mags. Those who write for the pc mags ( and are not bloggers) will also be watching.

Some of them are the very journalists who the national papers will turn to for their articles on computer related stories.

PC mag journalists are not daft. They know the industry ( and their own mag income, and consequently their own jobs) depend on brisk sales.

Because of that, they will try to present it in the best light - but they will be mindful of the criticisms.
I must admit I hadn't thought of the ripple effect, but have to agree with what you have said. :)
 

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FSeal

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#12
And though the RTM is all set in stone, the debate has yet to actually explode. When Windows 8 hits the market there will be 10x the debate. But that's all good because even MS has to pay some attention and there will be improvements to the completely new, nascent, cub of an UI that is Metro in the future and those improvements will come partially out of debates that have taken place, taking place now and will take place in the future...
 

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pparks1

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#13
Perhaps debate isn't the right word. I like to discuss Windows 8 as I'm looking for thoughts, opinions and usage stories of using the Metro interface. Personally I don't care for it, and i don't find it useful, but I like to hear from people who do to find out if they use the UI in a different manner than I do. This way, when somebody asks me for a recommendation, I can make a better recommendation if I understand how they use the UI and what Windows 8 could bring to the table for them.
 

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Arpan

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#14
There are a few who love the Metro thing , and seem desperate to persuade everyone else to love it too.

I haven't the slightest idea why they find it hard to handle that not everyone likes it.
I agree but:

There are a few who HATE the Metro thing , and seem desperate to persuade everyone else to HATE it too.

I haven't the slightest idea why they find it hard to handle that not everyone HATES it.
Well said mate. :thumbup:
 

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Coke Robot

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#15
I like orange creamsicles...

WP_000401.jpg
 

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jimbo45

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#16
There are a few who love the Metro thing , and seem desperate to persuade everyone else to love it too.

I haven't the slightest idea why they find it hard to handle that not everyone likes it.
I agree but:

There are a few who HATE the Metro thing , and seem desperate to persuade everyone else to HATE it too.

I haven't the slightest idea why they find it hard to handle that not everyone HATES it.
Well said mate. :thumbup:

Hi there

Using METRO ONLY please attempt the following and report back on how you got on.

1) Please just TRY using EXCEL where you need 3 or more different spread sheets open AT THE SAME TIME preferably on the same screen in different windows.

2) Next open a Power point window and create a few slides using some data from EACH OF THE 3 EXCEL SHEETS.

3) Finally open TWO WORD documents where you will write one in English and the other one in another language describing what the Spread sheets are and a bit about the Power point demo.


If you can do this ONLY USING METRO good luck --- I need at least TWO monitors for this -- note also I could also have Photoshop open, be comparing two web sites and certainly having at least ONE GOOGLE session open.

I'm certainly not going to flip through all these one screen at a time in full screen mode -- often you need to see more than one object at a time.

This is the sort of stuff that makes Metro totally unfit for purpose to large numbers of users. The REAL AGGRO is that until a recent announcement users had no way of bypassing this stuff -- you were stuck with it whether you liked it or not and for typical REAL computer work you still need the traditional desktop workspace. A PC is NOT a tablet or Smartphone even though some people do little more on their PC's than they would on a phone or tablet.

The real argument is that Ms should not be trying to kill off the traditional desktop for those that still need it. Had there been an option to use Metro or not then none of this would ever have arisen.

People who simply use their computers like big smart phones -- OK but for the rest who do REAL WORK on machines Metro is an abomination -- and that's why so many hate it.

Simple -- End of.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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davehc

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#17
Too right, Jimbo. But, from the latest rumours, MS are not about to kill off the desktop. It seems, if those rumours are to be believed, the legacy desktop will remain a viable option.

But, like yourself, I do not see, in its present state, and being aware that it is the planned intention/hope, that everything will become "Metro", how a user can multl task. This was one of my first "moans" when the available early releases were examined.
Good luck, Phone Man, if you have found a way to do this. But maybe, like myself, you are only using Metro as a menu, and not a desktop?

But, as usual, the thread seems to have drifted from the tile. But maybe the OP can see how easily threads about Windows 8, past or present, can quickly drift into exchanges of information?
 

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Mustang

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#18
I like orange creamsicles...
Good call CR, you got a genuine laff out of me with that one! :thumbsup:

The purpose of a debate is to prove a point by stating a case and countering all proferred evidence to the contrary. The rules require logical statements and information that can be substantiated. There is no place for opinions, feelings or preferences.

Discussion on the other hand includes all of the above, with open-minded, unbiased sharing of information with a view to the discovery of the truth of any given matter.

Re direct boot to desktop:

jimbo45 said:
This is the sort of stuff that makes Metro totally unfit for purpose to large numbers of users. The REAL AGGRO is that until a recent announcement users had no way of bypassing this stuff -- you were stuck
If this is true, all MS need to do now is restore the legacy strart menu so Classic Shell isn't needed, and there is no debate. And we can all get on with enjoying the positive attributes of 8 without acrimony.
 
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Kevin Ismail

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#19
Hi.
Debate or whatever we call it in which include valid arguments are OK to me. Been watching many threads since WDP release up to now. When thread opened an exchange of arguments inevitably took place. I believe I haven't participated much as my English is preventing me to do so. I can understand everyone's point but surely I'm at the same time also read many windows enthusiast blogs as Jimbo also mentioned. The pros and cons are not easily be ignored because each side clearly has it's strong points. What I mostly ignore is when one side start making a mark that they are right, and other side is wrong. It is indeed irrelevant as mostly IMHO aside from it's undeniable better engined OS, some people are wishing to have their preferences are fairly accommodated, me either. When the final release then doesn't meet ones expectation, there are always option and effort to make it less painful. ;)

That is only my thought

Kevin
 

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pparks1

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#20
People who simply use their computers like big smart phones -- OK but for the rest who do REAL WORK on machines Metro is an abomination -- and that's why so many hate it.
Complete agreement here.

I would be willing to bet that those who really do like Metro and the new UI, also enjoy working on tablets as well. I'd bet the people who really dislike Metro are the ones who don't really love tablets.

My tablet is fine for a few very basic, simple tasks and content consumption...but I cannot do any real work with it. I would have never attempted this reply from my tablet...I'm on my laptop right now.
 

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