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Toshiba exec: Microsoft confused consumers over Windows...

Toshiba exec: Microsoft confused consumers over Windows 8, RT


Microsoft has already taken a lot of flak over Windows 8, predominantly over its new design aesthetic. But more and more PC makers are lining up to point the finger at the software giant over its own marketing strategy.
At a product launch in Sydney, Toshiba Australia managing director Mark Whittard launched a ground-assault against Microsoft's marketing strategy, reports The Australian, claiming the software giant caused a "lot of confusion with Windows 8" with Intel-based machines and ARM-based machines.

But Lenovo and Samsung, which both make Windows 8 and Windows RT-based devices, have already bundled in software to include the Windows Start menu, for instance, which remains one of the biggest gripes behind the latest Microsoft operating system.
OEMs are also complaining, reports ZDNet's Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. In his speaking to OEM sources, Microsoft is "destroying" the PC industry. Another OEM partner claimed the problems with Windows 8 has "handed over millions of customers to Apple."

Toshiba exec: Microsoft confused consumers over Windows 8, RT | ZDNet
 

legacy7955

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I'd agree that MS has really helped to damage PC sales with the release of Windows 8.

The despicable thing is that this whole debacle could have been avoided by simply giving the customer the OPTION as to which UI they wanted as the default to boot at start up.
 

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SIW2

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But the question remains — how will Microsoft spin the U-turn? Will it be a mea culpa, or will the changes be branded as the next evolutionary step for the operating system?

It will be textbook stuff- "listening and responding helping the customers to move forward and adapt"

Using the classic - how a question/statement is framed can alter opinion.

One of the primary reasons why Microsoft wanted to bypass the desktop and throw Windows 8 users into the confusing hell stew that is the Start Screen is to give apps a higher level of visibility.

It's not just the apps. they want to push.

It seems highly likely..the release of Windows 8.1..will allow users to bypass the much-hated Start Screen and also bring back the much-loved Start button.

Start button is not the same as a start menu.

I am surprised Kingsley is not making that distinction.


Will developers be interested in developing apps for Windows 8 if the focus of attention is shifted from the Start Screen to the desktop?

Yes, if MS do it right.
 

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lehnerus2000

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It seems highly likely..the release of Windows 8.1..will allow users to bypass the much-hated Start Screen and also bring back the much-loved Start button.

Start button is not the same as a start menu.

I am surprised Kingsley is not making that distinction.

If MS keep giving the "middle digit gesture" to users, they'll keep receiving it back from those users.
 

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legacy7955

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It seems highly likely..the release of Windows 8.1..will allow users to bypass the much-hated Start Screen and also bring back the much-loved Start button.

Start button is not the same as a start menu.

I am surprised Kingsley is not making that distinction.

If MS keep giving the "middle digit gesture" to users, they'll keep receiving it back from those users.


Funny how all their high paid marketing folks are simply REFUSING to comprehend this.

I still feel that a LOT of this arrogant attitude is due to the fact that MBAs are heavily in control of MS. These clowns believe that somehow they can lord it over the customer and that they can be literally bullied into submission into taking what they are offered. LOL


Recently the former SVP "fruit genius" Ron Johnson, also an MBA, got a taste of how the customer CANNOT be ignored or forced and that his "big ideas" were not as important as what the customer wanted.
Unfortunately it didn't stop him from putting the final nail in the coffin of a department store icon that was a household name for a century. JC Penny.

Ron Johnson Really Is Destroying JC Penney - Business Insider
 

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labeeman

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Then we have M$ trying to buy the NOOK.

[h=1]This Is How Microsoft Could Reinvent the Nook[/h]
You have most likely heard that tech giant Microsoft is now trying to take over the Nook Media business from Barnes & Noble, even though it’s not yet clear why.

While such an acquisition could help the company develop its own eReader, it could also bring Microsoft a significant advantage in the fight against the other rivals on the market, such as Apple and Google. Plus, it would fulfill Steve Ballmer’s desire of seeing Microsoft embracing the devices and services concept he talks about all the time.

First of all, owners shouldn’t be allowed to turn pages. If they have the skills to do it without touching the devices, that’s okay. Otherwise, practice makes you perfect. Try until you get the trick and manage to turn the page by simply starring at the device for hours. If you can’t do it, it’s your fault.

This Is How Microsoft Could Reinvent the Nook
 

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legacy7955

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First of all, owners shouldn’t be allowed to turn pages. If they have the skills to do it without touching the devices, that’s okay. Otherwise, practice makes you perfect. Try until you get the trick and manage to turn the page by simply starring at the device for hours. If you can’t do it, it’s your fault.

This Is How Microsoft Could Reinvent the Nook


:roflmao:


Inquiring minds want to know.....WHY IS STEVE BALLMER still at MS?
 

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Coke Robot

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Says a company that readily makes pretty crappy PCs to begin with... :rolleyes:

If by "PC market," we're again talking about the desktop form factor; that has been a dying breed for years now. If anything, OEMs killed the desktop PC by making them so uninspired and not really that desirable in the consumer's eyes. Also, consumers killed the desktop PC as they've made their intentions clear of being mobile. But if by "PC market," this means EVERYTHING running Windows, Microsoft isn't killing anything. Again, OEMs are shooting themselves in the foot as well by releasing SO many non-touch PCs to begin with when Windows 8 was known for a couple of years almost that it would be touch centric. They repackaged Windows 7 PCs with 8. That's not the Windows 8 experience if you ask me. It'll take until at least Windows 8.1's release before OEMs have adapted to touch and tablet and other designed PCs.

I also don't know how much confusion there can be with 8 and RT considering there aren't many RT devices out there in the wild. But it's simple, RT is on the ARM processor and has all day battery life. 8 is on typical laptop and desktop processors and functions like a normal PC. Not too hard huh?

Personally, I've yet to see a Windows 8 PC from Samsung or others that have a start menu on them. But speaking of Lenovo, they're not complaining a bit about Windows 8, they claim their touch PCs with 8 are selling quite decently and have some difficulty meeting that demand. They don't build crappy PCs either. Soooo.......
 

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labeeman

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But speaking of Lenovo, they're not complaining a bit about Windows 8, they claim their touch PCs with 8 are selling quite decently and have some difficulty meeting that demand. They don't build crappy PCs either. Soooo.......

Could be because they do put a start menu on there non touch PCs.
 

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Coke Robot

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But speaking of Lenovo, they're not complaining a bit about Windows 8, they claim their touch PCs with 8 are selling quite decently and have some difficulty meeting that demand. They don't build crappy PCs either. Soooo.......

Could be because they do put a start menu on there non touch PCs.

Again, I've looked around their nontouch PCs, no start menu. Just touchpad gestures and Windows 8.
 

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labeeman

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My laptop came with a start menu installed.
 

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Coke Robot

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My laptop came with a start menu installed.
Was it preinstalled with Windows 7? :p

I just haven't even seen ANY Windows 8 PC on display in a show area at any retailer, touch or nontouch, with a start menu preinstalled. That could be just my region though. Or it could be if you buy a PC online, you can get that option. But again, the Start Screen has features that make it just a giant visual start menu, Windows 8.1 will extrapolate on that even further. Problem however I see, that isn't default. Before in the Developer Preview, File Explorer was pinned to the Start Screen. In the RTM, NOTHING of the Desktop is there. EVERY install of Windows 8 I've done, the Libraries, Downloads folder, Recycle Bin, Computer, and Task Manager gets pinned to the Start Screen. Hit Start, you can go open your Videos library as you would had with the start menu. Difference? Just visual and more flexible.
 

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labeeman

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On line purchase preinstalled with Windows 8 it was Lenovo own brand start menu uninstalled it to put Classic Shell.
 

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legacy7955

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If by "PC market," we're again talking about the desktop form factor; that has been a dying breed for years now.

It's actually not a dying breed as enterprise still largely rely on desktop form factors. Also sales
of desktops is slower than the other forms because they are more powerful to start with, individual components can be updated by replacing them easily.

The industry doesn't like the desktop for consumers because they can't profit as much off them so THEY would like to push consumers towards "throwaway" purchases.
. But if by "PC market," this means EVERYTHING running Windows, Microsoft isn't killing anything. Again, OEMs are shooting themselves in the foot as well by releasing SO many non-touch PCs to begin with when Windows 8 was known for a couple of years almost that it would be touch centric. They repackaged Windows 7 PCs with 8. That's not the Windows 8 experience if you ask me. It'll take until at least Windows 8.1's release before OEMs have adapted to touch and tablet and other designed PCs.



..


And the OEMs told MS that including touch centric interfaces COSTS significant money to add to the laptop and desktop. Oh, and BTW those desktop and laptop users do NOT want a touch based product. LOL;)

Again touch is annoying and NOT ergonomic when it comes to longer usage and productivity.

Proof in the pudding is that enterprise has NO interest in touch centric work stations or laptops.

You see it isn't only about what MS wants.....


This is amusing though because I look forward to seeing MS keep shoving something in the faces on consumers that they clearly do NOT want.

Only the most arrogant self important types would continue to force feed in this way.

It will fail.
 

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SIW2

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Cokie,

questions for you.

Lenovo, they're not complaining a bit about Windows 8, they claim their touch PCs with 8 are selling quite decently and have some difficulty meeting that demand

1) Why is that ?

2) What does it mean for MS ?

See if you can figure it out.
 

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XweAponX

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Looks like some of them are installing Start8 and giving it to users.

But Lenovo and Samsung, which both make Windows 8 and Windows RT-based devices, have already bundled in software to include the Windows Start menu, for instance, which remains one of the biggest gripes behind the latest Microsoft operating system.OEMs are also complaining, reports ZDNet's Adrian Kingsley-Hughes. In his speaking to OEM sources, Microsoft is "destroying" the PC industry. Another OEM partner claimed the problems with Windows 8 has "handed over millions of customers to Apple."


Adrian hated Vista as I recall... But his voice is now added to the "No Start Menu" legion. Ha! But his point is that, ya can't remove stuff that has been the most important part of an OS from even before Windows 95! It's all the same thing, the Windows 3.1 "Program Manager" - It was in Windows 95 and I think, in Windows 98 and maybe even in 2000, was it finally gone in XP? Wait... Well Whaddya Know? It's STILL THERE in XP! Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!

How about Windows 7? Nope, it's finally gone in Windows 7 - It's in XP but it does not start in XP. I wonder why they sis that? Left it in - I used to use mine in Windows 95 and 98.


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]
Toshiba still represents a fraction of the overall market. What appears to be on the face of it is a PC manufacturer dousing Microsoft in flames, the PC maker is only just getting around to launching and selling Windows 8-based machines.


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Toshiba, I like their Satellite line of laptops- But their hardware has always suckkked. I never buy Toshiba Hard Drives - Do you guys remember Hewlett-Packard computers? Ohhh Ghod... The very worst computers in the world.
[/FONT]
I remember they had all these bizarre box designs, and they'd have to make special Motherboards to fit very strange footprints. So if any component went bad you were stuck, you had yo buy it from them, IF... IF they still made the part! Which they didn't cos they stopped making it maybe 2 months after you bought it brand new a-ahahaha. I remember seeing machines with 100 MB Hard Drives - They came Pre Filled... With all kinds of crap programs, "Hewlett Packard Navigator" - A Multimedia set of pogroms that never worked right, that wold FILL UP all but 20 MB of your brand new computer's hard drive.

They carried this over as PCs started having 1 GB - 4 GB - 20 GB then later 120, 230, 320, I dont think they survivced up to 500 GB hard drives. They would cram it FULL of JUNK Programs.

So, they'd CRASH. You call them on the phone, their solution to everything was "Wipe the hard drive and reinstall windows" - Oh Yah? What about my user files?

Also, you buy these nice shiny systems from them, that have huge glossy STICKERS you absolutely cannot get off of the case. eMachines used to do the same thing, but the difference was quality, eTowers made some good systems, sometimes. But the main issue with Hewlett-Packard compukers: You disk out your 3 thousand bucks, you bring it home, it works for two weeks, then you get "System Protection Error You need to restart your computer" - THIS IS NOT A MICROSOFT ERROR! So, you call them up, and they say "Delete the hard drive and use the "recovery" disk - They were the first OEM that bundles a bunch of garbage programs in... And so you have 20 MB of a 4 GB drive free after this process... And this time, it only works for 1 week - Then 2 days.

Anyone remember that? "System Protection Error You need to restart your computer" - In other words a Blue Screen of Deth, but you cold not SEE it, just this worthless message that says nothing. And the reason wqhy I hated apple back in 1989 - They used to do similar stuff, something bad happened, and the system would say "File Protection Error BUMMER" and then :( icon. HUH? What good is THAT? Oh don't let me go on about this hahahahaha.


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]
Whittard noted that Toshiba is only just getting around to selling Windows 8-based devices — not Windows RT — because it still had Windows 7 stock to clear from its inventory. Focusing on the business market, he said many businesses don't upgrade their machines to a new operating system "until two or three years later."

Now, despite their bad hard drives, this makes sense. Plus, Windows 7 phones, what about those, are they all Windows 8 phones now?

Basically, I'll break down MS's error like so, they made Windows 8 RT, for tablets and devices, fine. Was there a Windows 7 RT too? I never saw a Windows 7 phone, I dunno. Well, people bought Windows 7 phones, like how it works, but the new Windows 8 phones, how different are they, can they be used the same way, and most important, can the apps that run on a windows 7 phone run on a windows 8 phone?

The other thing is, the Desktop market - MS should have given us a 3rd option foe Windows 8 - They had RT, and they have Windows 8 Pro/With Media Center, they also need Windows 8 WITHOUT Metro, for servers and workstations.

Most of the stuff we post, I always try to post on ZDnet, I don't know how many of these BBS's Microsoft reads, but they do read the comments at ZDnet. Well they read our posts about Vista over there, and they accommodated us. So I hope they have at least one or two high level employees looking in HERE, cos only in these huge knock down drag out discussions can they really KNOW what the problems are, the problems they caused.
 

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