This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.

[Night Hawk]

Well that happens to be one of the main beefs about 8 to start with as to how MS went about implementing the changes without any regard for the traditional desktop user. The blog writers have been having a field day trashing 8 as well as a former MS employee in fact who made some sharp criticisms.

As for Tablet PC even with 7 you saw an embedded OS not the same as installing 7 onto a netbook separately being another type of portable device. Likewise each new version would see two separate platforms while Metro is geared at selling items separately after yanking things out of 8 to sell it for less as well as geared at bringing out the touchscreen OS.

If you happen to catch a few tv shows seen in the last few years like NCIS: LA for example what do you see? A large projection screen with someone bringing up and moving not full screen windows around as well as resizing them before a group of people. Makes an easy "presentation" type gui to work with but not so smart for the desktop with a much smaller lcd. The productive workstation concept goes out the window for sure without 3rd party help.

 

[Tully]

Win+C opens the Charms bar.
Win+F opens file search.

I found & dowmloade a great list of Win8 shortcuts.

Tully

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

Night Hawk said:

If MS are smart, a few weeks after W8 is released they'll slash the price of W7, otherwise there will be a surge in cracked/pirated versions of W7.

heh...heh...heh...Why do you think I have 4 additional copies for?

 

[ksdixon]

Where exactly has it been said (other than people possibly over-reacting) that everything will be funneled through the Microsoft Store. As I understand it both the ARM/Pro versions of Win8 have the Desktop area, so anyone can use whichever regular non-metro browser they perfer to download and install whatever program they want from whichever download location they want to.

Why isn't there this same hysteria with Androids and the Android Marketplace/Google Play? Or iWhatevers and the Apple Store? I would say that Microsoft are giving you more choices than either of those platforms.

 

[FSeal]

Where exactly has it been said (other than people possibly over-reacting) that everything will be funneled through the Microsoft Store. As I understand it both the ARM/Pro versions of Win8 have the Desktop area, so anyone can use whichever regular non-metro browser they perfer to download and install whatever program they want from whichever download location they want to.

Why isn't there this same hysteria with Androids and the Android Marketplace/Google Play? Or iWhatevers and the Apple Store? I would say that Microsoft are giving you more choices than either of those platforms.

All METRO apps will have to go through the Microsoft store according to Microsoft. Desktop apps which may come from the app store in the future, can at least be installed outside of it for now. If you want o use Metro and use a Metro app, it has to come from Microsoft's store.

This is one of the reasons people Hate Apple BTW.

On Android you can at least sideload apps without going through the store. (Maybe there is a hacky way to do this on Win 8, I don't know yet)

But the big deal with this over the iPad/iPhone and Android is, those ecosystems started out with an app store from the get go whereas MS is slowly changing an age old independent platform OVER to their own total control. A lot of future apps may NOT be available on the desktop, but ONLY through the Metro app store and that'll suck for people that don;t want to have anything to do with it. MS is splitting the windows developer camp in two and putting that burdon on the users.

Forcing metro apps through the app store is a dodgy definition of an additional "choice". It's wrapped in a serious concern for the future of app distribution on windows. No serious app developer (i.e. Adobe) is going to give MS 30% of their cut! (Without raising their price by 30% anyway). You think photoshop is expensive now... wait till you have to buy it through the MS store in Windows 9!

The time to start fighting against that "hysterical" outcome is NOW, not after there is no longer any choice.

 

[BobLenx]

The CharmsBar really is the whole key here. I use it and find that it gets the job done, such as searching.

I think Windows 8 will work - eventually LOL. While I too prefer the old desktop view at the moment, I sense where all this is heading - touch AND voice for input winning out over mouse and typing. Even from an office productivity point of view, I can see touch and voice becoming integral. Eventually the whole concept of "computer" as a thing sitting on your desk will fade away as your "environment" becomes interactive.

I am a retired IT person, and while I would hate to have to go through the transition from XP or 7 to 8, the end result would be worth it. And you can depend on the usual bloatware from computer manufacturers to bring forth "fixes" to answer user concerns: the start orb will be one of them and being able to boot into the desktop view rather than metro is another - assuming MS doesn't address those issues with the final release.

Jeeze Jimbo, there sure is a Search function, once you are in the MS Store, move your mouse to the RIGHT side of your screen to the Charms bar. The Charms bar has a search, and depending on what application you are on, you can USE it right there to Search with. In this case The MS Store. I have tested it, and it works perfectly in the MS Store. ALTHO my search for what *I* wanted wasn't there. BUT going with an application that I knew was there, it came up fine in the results.

I'll be honest in that I too thought there was no search. It's not very intuitive, at least not to me.

 

[Night Hawk]

Night Hawk said:

If MS are smart, a few weeks after W8 is released they'll slash the price of W7, otherwise there will be a surge in cracked/pirated versions of W7.

heh...heh...heh...Why do you think I have 4 additional copies for?

That was lehermerus2000 who made that statement. Here I already build 3 7 cases one for each edition with the 64bit flavoring added!

In fact I'm presently on the 7 Pro x64 case not my usual Ultimate x64 build. Only the HP laptop bought last year sees the 32bit Home Premium on that bought as a gift for someone who wouldn't be on any system much regardless of OS. Previously I had build a 64bit Home Premium case for a family member who mainly checks the mail, plays some Windows games, and processes orders for a company sitting in front of a workstation all day. One of the old XP cases could have still sufficed but 7 was "7"!

For 8 however I was hoping the RP would have shed more light like the 7 RC did for 7's final RTM but it didn't happen as far as seeing any option to disable the Metro or substitute setup options for a conventional click and point desktop. Instead MS is likely going to push touchscreen past 8 as you would expect to become intregal part of Windows still able to point and click but not on a standard desktop most are accustomed to.

Things pertaining to core improvements you would expect with any newer version. As far as gaming some might rave while others seem to find things are not working out so well in 8 as with 7. I hear that more from those with laptops while having run into some compatibility issues which is the norm.

The big question is how well will the retail release work out as well as what will be the final touches seen in the RTM which are possibly not being seen in any of the Previews? If you simply want improvements in the core elements it wouldn't have to be 8, 9, 10, or whatever they name it specifically but just any newer version where improvements in certain things are expected to be seen.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Night Hawk said:

If MS are smart, a few weeks after W8 is released they'll slash the price of W7, otherwise there will be a surge in cracked/pirated versions of W7.

heh...heh...heh...Why do you think I have 4 additional copies for?

That was lehermerus2000 who made that statement. Here I already build 3 7 cases one for each edition with the 64bit flavoring added!

Thank you kind sir.

 

[Night Hawk]

Night Hawk said:


heh...heh...heh...Why do you think I have 4 additional copies for?

That was lehnermerus2000 who made that statement. Here I already build 3 7 cases one for each edition with the 64bit flavoring added!

Thank you kind sir.

You're welcome! Sorry about the typo I corrected that in the quote here.

As far as the other thing that has been going now since 2009 when everybody wanted to get their hands on the latest at the time regard about other things! I've leave it at that.

Lately I've been finding more upgrading out of XP however to 7. Some going back to XP now wanting to get 7 back on. I suspect the initial problems people are having with the RP are seeing many stick with 7 when deciding to go newer. A great deal of this was seen when Vista was first out and no driver support available! MS stressed OEMs to have drivers ready for 7 but now not for 8?

I ran into that here with a tv tuner card waiting a full year for Vista while 7 would run Vista and Vissta/7 driver sets with ease. Since 8 is the new MS animal it stands to reason MS would want driver support ready in order to see 8 sell as well as all the changes. But they haven't been upto par so to speak in a variety of ways as far as having excluded any opttions for the desktop user who now will need 3rd party addons without any setup options for touchscreen or non touchscreen desktop gui.

MS played it better in that regard introducing Vista with the options for Classic and Aero theme styles when introducing Aero there. With a major change to the gui not just the theme styles you would think they would want to meet both needs by providing some type of options rather then stuffing Metro down everyone's throats. "Here take it whether you like it or not!" shows a rather sloppy way of bringing in a major change to the OS.

As for the Charms bar the concept works but necessarily for the shutdown options people have grown used to. The pain of finding just the right spot for it to appear will be the most confusing part for the novice user however. At least that idea works out better then having a Vista side bar type Charms bar thrown at you since this auto hides itself over being enabled to start with Windows or disabled entirely from appearing. The pros and cons for that one.

 

[Tully]

A simple keyboard shortcut (Win+C) brings up the "Charms Bar". What is all the "FUSS" about!

Tully

 

[alphanumeric]

Where exactly has it been said (other than people possibly over-reacting) that everything will be funneled through the Microsoft Store. As I understand it both the ARM/Pro versions of Win8 have the Desktop area, so anyone can use whichever regular non-metro browser they perfer to download and install whatever program they want from whichever download location they want to.

Why isn't there this same hysteria with Androids and the Android Marketplace/Google Play? Or iWhatevers and the Apple Store? I would say that Microsoft are giving you more choices than either of those platforms.

The way I understand it you're regular desktop programs, originally written for an x86 processor, won't run on Windows RT without being rewritten to run on an ARM processor. That would mean that Windows RT is pretty well locked into the App store.

 

[pparks1]

Where exactly has it been said (other than people possibly over-reacting) that everything will be funneled through the Microsoft Store. As I understand it both the ARM/Pro versions of Win8 have the Desktop area, so anyone can use whichever regular non-metro browser they perfer to download and install whatever program they want from whichever download location they want to.

Actually, your understanding is not correct. While Windows RT will have the classic desktop, it's only for Microsoft's own applications. The desktop won't be available to third party software.

See the heading of Interface in this link and also software and compatibility for more information;
Windows 8 vs Windows RT: what's the difference? | News | TechRadar

Check out this article too, the section "It has a desktop....but
HTG Explains: What Is Windows RT and What Does It Mean To Me? - How-To Geek

Why isn't there this same hysteria with Androids and the Android Marketplace/Google Play? Or iWhatevers and the Apple Store?

As far as Androids go, there was no established collection of 3rd party software available prior to their introduction and the Android marketplace. So, nothing existed that consumers would want to run. As far as Apple goes, remember Apple fans love whatever they are given and they stand in line for it and sing it's praises. They are willing to pay more as their device is as much a status symbol as it is functional.

The "only" reason I am remotely interested in Surface as a tablet is because it's a full blown computer, rather than just another "smartphone" type device that runs "little apps". For me, the RT version of the Surface is dead in the water....unless it were $250 or less. Without the ability to run 3rd party software, it's nothing more than what we already have. So, I wouldn't call my concerns hysteria, but without 3rd party software support...."thanks, but I'll pass for now".

 

[FSeal]

A simple keyboard shortcut (Win+C) brings up the "Charms Bar". What is all the "FUSS" about!

Tully

Because it's 100% unintuitive (like 90% of the Metro UI).

99.9999999% of the users will NEVER know that works. They will just be completely stymied by the missing functionality or annoyed by the rightfully annoying "magic" hot corners.

To this day, YEARS after it was implemented, ANYONE that sees me press Win+E to bring up explorer /invariably/ says "How did you do that?"

Shortcut keys are ok for the pros but completely useless to everyone else. It's a BAD USER PARADIGM to be considered the primary way of getting to it. Hot corners are pretty much just as bad. All that stuff used to be on the much more intuitive and easy to find and use start menu.

Start menu traded away for hidden, hard to find, hard to use menu == not an improvement in any way.

 

[pparks1]

To this day, YEARS after it was implemented, ANYONE that sees me press Win+E to bring up explorer /invariably/ says "How did you do that?"

Same here. I find nobody but my fellow IT staffers using the keyboard shortcuts.

 

[PaulGo]

Why isn't there this same hysteria with Androids and the Android Marketplace/Google Play? Or iWhatevers and the Apple Store? I would say that Microsoft are giving you more choices than either of those platforms.

You can purchase Android apps outside of Google Play. Amazon has an app store as well as Samsung. You just need to check a box on your phone to allow these type of purchases. Actually you don't even need to go to an app store a software publisher can even sell their own apps. Must publishers find it advantageous to go through an app store since it give them a wider audience of prospective customers.

 

[Tully]

I have not heard so much fussing since my father had to change from the Planetary Transmission, gas & spark on the steering wheel Model on his Ford Model "T" to 4 on the Floor transmission & gas pedal on the floor in his Ford model "A".


He said it would not succeed!

He was wrong also!

Tully

 

[FSeal]

He wouldn't have been wrong about the Kin and the Zune and Microsoft Bob.

In other words, that means absolutely nothing at all.

And.. out of curiosity, exactly how old are you that you heard your father say something like that during said trasition??? O.O

 

[Tully]

I am the oldest member on the Forum - 83!

By the way, my first car was a "T" bought at auction during WWII for $25!

The way to test how old someone is, ask to explain how the Ford planetary transmission worked.

Tully

 

[FSeal]

I am the oldest member on the Forum - 83!

By the way, my first car was a "T" bought at auction during WWII for $25!

The way to test how old someone is, ask to explain how the Ford planetary transmission worked.

Tully

Awesome

 

[phailyoor]

To this day, YEARS after it was implemented, ANYONE that sees me press Win+E to bring up explorer /invariably/ says "How did you do that?"

I never knew that. I guess I learn a new keyboard shortcut every day.