This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.

[jimbo45]

Hi there
If Ms are going to force people to use their horrible app store for getting software (I don't think this will be successfui in any case -- too many sources for Ms to control as well as the implications of monopolizing distribution channels etc) at least can they put some from of SEARCH facility into it -- they don't have one currently -- just imagine trying to find an application out of Zillions and quadzillions with no search and even not displaying in alphabetical order.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

Jeeze Jimbo, there sure is a Search function, once you are in the MS Store, move your mouse to the RIGHT side of your screen to the Charms bar. The Charms bar has a search, and depending on what application you are on, you can USE it right there to Search with. In this case The MS Store. I have tested it, and it works perfectly in the MS Store. ALTHO my search for what *I* wanted wasn't there. BUT going with an application that I knew was there, it came up fine in the results.

 

[pparks1]

Jeeze Jimbo, there sure is a Search function, once you are in the MS Store, move your mouse to the RIGHT side of your screen to the Charms bar. The Charms bar has a search, and depending on what application you are on, you can USE it right there to Search with. In this case The MS Store. I have tested it, and it works perfectly in the MS Store. ALTHO my search for what *I* wanted wasn't there. BUT going with an application that I knew was there, it came up fine in the results.

I'll be honest in that I too thought there was no search. It's not very intuitive, at least not to me.

 

[Mustang]

Without going into the whys and wherefores, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind Win8 will be the biggest meteor in MS history to light up the night sky as it crashes and burns while plummeting to destruction ... unless they listen to the consumer demands.

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

@ Mustang, NEVER will happen! It might beat out Vista, BUT never ME (Millennium Edition).

 

[Mustang]

@ Mustang, NEVER will happen! It might beat out Vista, BUT never ME (Millennium Edition).

Not taking bets, but time will tell. Mind you, that's one MS OS I didn't bother to add to my collection, purely based on other persons' reports.

 

[jimbo45]

Jeeze Jimbo, there sure is a Search function, once you are in the MS Store, move your mouse to the RIGHT side of your screen to the Charms bar. The Charms bar has a search, and depending on what application you are on, you can USE it right there to Search with. In this case The MS Store. I have tested it, and it works perfectly in the MS Store. ALTHO my search for what *I* wanted wasn't there. BUT going with an application that I knew was there, it came up fine in the results.

Hi there
I will guarantee that that method of search will confuse 99.999% of the users -- there should be a bar in the application ITSELF with a SEARCH -- why not a search bar when you are choosing the categories.

Now I'm no idiot I hope when it comes to computers but I would never have found that search in a million years so what will your average joe make of it.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[mart4494]

....so what will your average joe make of it.
jimbo

I know one thing, the 'help' file or 'read me now' will sure be interesting. Cannot imagine any average joe's bothering. It's all about first impressions and Win8 simply doesn't cut it in the laptop/desktop world. May be a totally different story in phone/tablet land and it will need to be for MS's sake.

Shame it wasn't called MS Metro or something similar rather than Win8. Calling it Win8 then folks expect an improved intuitive Windows OS. Win8 is simply not intuitive and there are plenty of negative media reports starting to rear their ugly heads. The thing hasn't even launched yet!!

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

Like I said in another thread, we're going to ALL have to re-learn how to use Windows. Not really a tough learning curve though.
We did it when we left Windows 3.x to Windows 95, NOW we get to do it ALL over again. That's FUN!!

 

[Hopachi]

Jeeze Jimbo, there sure is a Search function, once you are in the MS Store, move your mouse to the RIGHT side of your screen to the Charms bar. The Charms bar has a search, and depending on what application you are on, you can USE it right there to Search with. In this case The MS Store. I have tested it, and it works perfectly in the MS Store. ALTHO my search for what *I* wanted wasn't there. BUT going with an application that I knew was there, it came up fine in the results.

Hi there
I will guarantee that that method of search will confuse 99.999% of the users -- there should be a bar in the application ITSELF with a SEARCH -- why not a search bar when you are choosing the categories.

Now I'm no idiot I hope when it comes to computers but I would never have found that search in a million years so what will your average joe make of it.

Cheers
jimbo

Also didn't found that one by myself (thanks to Mike).
And I'm also no average joe here and wasn't aware of the search capabilities either.

Up until now, all programs had a search option when needed. But now they decide to provide only one option that includes all: well who would expect this? Not me, not you... and nobody except a few guys out there.

Now I know this hint too, but you never know how many other unknown things are lurking in the UI and one day you stumble across them confused and not knowing where to click / tap.

To avoid this confusion, there should be some user manual, warnings or tips and tricks (don't say I like those) windows popping out and explaining all the modifications in UI functionality.

 

[jimbo45]

Like I said in another thread, we're going to ALL have to re-learn how to use Windows. Not really a tough learning curve though.
We did it when we left Windows 3.x to Windows 95, NOW we get to do it ALL over again. That's FUN!!

Hi there
agree up to a point but surely any SENSIBLY designed application that wants you to browse its store should allow you to SEARCH WITHOUT having to essentially leave the application to start something else.

I don't mind learning new things but this must surely be idiotic in the extreme.

What on Earth were the DESIGNERS of this stuff doing before they passed out the specs to the developers. If I'd been sitting in one of those meetings I would have asked immediately -- I'm a customer OK -- you want me to use the app store --so how do I find what I'm looking for. Seems 100% obvious to me.

If I have to go via some cack handed way to get to the search --it's not going to work in the real world -=-trust me -- sometimes I.T people get too far removed from the end users -- not always a bad thing but in this case totally wrong.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[davidvoyage]

Hi there
If Ms are going to force people to use their horrible app store for getting software (I don't think this will be successfui in any case -- too many sources for Ms to control as well as the implications of monopolizing distribution channels etc) at least can they put some from of SEARCH facility into it -- they don't have one currently -- just imagine trying to find an application out of Zillions and quadzillions with no search and even not displaying in alphabetical order.

Cheers
jimbo

hm...am I missing something?
I use windows 8 and within desktop mode, it's just like windows 7, I can download whatever I want on the net. Without touching the app store.

One weird thing is I wonder why we have an app store in our desktop...we won't need it and I will never run any metro app on my desktop computer....never. I simply cannot imagine someone using metro app on a 24" desktop computer, it just doesn't make any sense to me at all. I wish they should enable users to boot directly to desktop to reduce confusion.

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

Jimbo, the Charms bar, and all the applications within it are a very important part of Windows 8. Microsoft's grand plan is to move us away from the desktop, and Windows 9 will follow that up, by giving us NO desktop what-so-ever. Thinking you never seen that humorist commercial where there is a lab with a bunch of chimpanzees milling around trying to figure out how to use the computer, then an orangutan enters jumps on the computer and works magic with it. GUESS who the MONKEYS really are? Got a banana? Quite funny, nothing to do with Microsoft though. Gateway computer commercial (whisper: BUT I have a sneaking suspicion that Microsoft is seeing is that way). LoL

Almost forgot, the keyline to that commercial: At Gateway we made our computers so easy to use, any hairy ape can operate them. © Gateway Computers.

 

[Night Hawk]

I wouldn't have doubt that 9, 10, and whatever to come after will lean more towards the touched off mind set over the conventional wisdom finally seen with 7! The history books will likely show 7 as when MS finally got something right on the first try!

The "Charms bar' is for those who live a charmed live apparently and hidden unless you just happen to hit the right spot with the mouse cursor! For the first time Windows users as well as those who never tried Vista or 7 and even some who never made it 98, ME, 2000 and went to Linux the getting around in 8 will be a mystery! If you are not on a forum like this and are wondering "How the foobar do you...?" you will be one of the many lost!

For those who will only now finally need to replace an old XP machine they will likely be caught up between a rock and a hard place debating over which to go with for a new system 7 or 8? For those that still want some conventional wisdom 7 will be in for the time being until no longer sold. For those who simply want the latest "bells and whistles" they will be the few jumping on 8 until they soon realize they made an oops!

No one doubts improvements in security as well as hardware detection and setup being part of the core improvements. I know the new form of W.Defender located a bug hidden on one of the storage drives originally discovered by the present av program in use here but left a test to see what 8 would offer. The MS SE under the renamed WD was able to find it.

The faster startup shows MS has made further progress with the MinWin modular type kernel in order to able to see Win8 on the GO on a flash drive. The core has been made more portable since the lean is towards the portable market place to begin with. Meanwhile the traditional desktop OS suffers the largest hit there.

 

[Mustang]

Most of my life has been spent in marketing and my spare time in latter years in playing around with PCs. I'm certainly not a PC expert, but would venture to say above average computer literate.

The prime rule in marketing is not to educate the public to your way of thinking, but to cater to consumer demand. And in that respect Win8 will simply not fly.

This principle was illustrated by the owner of a radio model shop, who said that as a model enthusiast, he could not afford to stock his shop with his personal preferences, but what the public wanted. You break that rule at your own risk.

No doubt Win8 can be made to work pretty much as you want it to like a traditional desktop OS, but forget it! In this day and age of everything from instant coffee to instant Vegas marriages/divorces, people aren't interested in "making things work the way they want it".

They want it to work, as they want it, straight out of the box. And in that respect Win8 is a cataclysmic disaster. And IMHO, the traditional desktop will never die, because it's the most efficient format for data access and manipulation. If MS go off into the clouds, another player will eventually surface. This is evidenced by the plethora of alternative OSs surfacing in smartfones. And unquestionably a player like Google has the resources to do just that.

Just for the record, on a lighter note, and please note item #12:

At a computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated: "If GM had kept up with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."

In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release (by Mr.Welch himself) stating:

---

​

If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:

1. For no reason at all, your car would crash twice a day.

2. Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you would have to buy a new car.

3. Occasionally, executing a manoeuver such as a left-turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, and you would have to reinstall the engine.

4. When your car died on the freeway for no reason, you would just accept this, restart and drive on.

5. Only one person at a time could use the car, unless you bought 'Car95' or 'CarNT', and then added more seats.

6. Apple would make a car powered by the sun, reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy to drive, but would run on only five per cent of the roads.

7. Oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a single 'general car default' warning light.

8. New seats would force every-one to have the same size butt.

9. The airbag would say: 'Are you sure?' before going off.

10. Occasionally, for no reason, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key, and grabbed the radio antenna.

11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of road maps from Rand-McNally, (a subsidiary of GM), even though they neither need them nor want them. Trying to delete this option would immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50 per cent or more. Moreover, GM would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department.

12.Every time GM introduced a new model, car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.

13. You would press the 'start' button to shut off the engine.
​

 

[lehnerus2000]

For those who will only now finally need to replace an old XP machine they will likely be caught up between a rock and a hard place debating over which to go with for a new system 7 or 8? For those that still want some conventional wisdom 7 will be in for the time being until no longer sold. For those who simply want the latest "bells and whistles" they will be the few jumping on 8 until they soon realize they made an oops!

If MS are smart, a few weeks after W8 is released they'll slash the price of W7, otherwise there will be a surge in cracked/pirated versions of W7.

 

[davidvoyage]

I wouldn't have doubt that 9, 10, and whatever to come after will lean more towards the touched off mind set over the conventional wisdom finally seen with 7! The history books will likely show 7 as when MS finally got something right on the first try!

The "Charms bar' is for those who live a charmed live apparently and hidden unless you just happen to hit the right spot with the mouse cursor! For the first time Windows users as well as those who never tried Vista or 7 and even some who never made it 98, ME, 2000 and went to Linux the getting around in 8 will be a mystery! If you are not on a forum like this and are wondering "How the foobar do you...?" you will be one of the many lost!

For those who will only now finally need to replace an old XP machine they will likely be caught up between a rock and a hard place debating over which to go with for a new system 7 or 8? For those that still want some conventional wisdom 7 will be in for the time being until no longer sold. For those who simply want the latest "bells and whistles" they will be the few jumping on 8 until they soon realize they made an oops!

No one doubts improvements in security as well as hardware detection and setup being part of the core improvements. I know the new form of W.Defender located a bug hidden on one of the storage drives originally discovered by the present av program in use here but left a test to see what 8 would offer. The MS SE under the renamed WD was able to find it.

The faster startup shows MS has made further progress with the MinWin modular type kernel in order to able to see Win8 on the GO on a flash drive. The core has been made more portable since the lean is towards the portable market place to begin with. Meanwhile the traditional desktop OS suffers the largest hit there.

I have to disagree with you about the windows 9, 10 will lean toward touch based more than traditional desktop.
Many people seems to misunderstand something, Keyboard + Mouse is actually more efficient than touch-based technologies.
The only advantage of touch-based devices over traditional desktop is "mobility". You can use it in a car, sitting on a sofa etc But for real work, in the office in general, you will be sitting in front of your desk and this is not going to change in the next 100 years minimum.

Microsoft got it wrong for running Metro app on Desktop PC. Opening an app cover up the whole screen? This concept is good for your mobile device since the screen is small and it must be full screen in order to be comfortable on human eyes. But it is not going to work for a 24" desktop monitor, it simply makes things LESS efficient.

My prediction for Windows 9, 10 is that they will release separate version of OS for Tablet and Desktop PC.

Traditional desktop will never go away.

 

[Mustang]

I have to disagree with you about the windows 9, 10 will lean toward touch based more than traditional desktop.

Many people seems to misunderstand something, Keyboard + Mouse is actually more efficient than touch-based technologies.

The only advantage of touch-based devices over traditional desktop is "mobility". You can use it in a car, sitting on a sofa etc But for real work, in the office in general, you will be sitting in front of your desk and this is not going to change in the next 100 years minimum.

Microsoft got it wrong for running Metro app on Desktop PC. Opening an app cover up the whole screen? This concept is good for your mobile device since the screen is small and it must be full screen in order to be comfortable on human eyes. But it is not going to work for a 24" desktop monitor, it simply makes things LESS efficient.

My prediction for Windows 9, 10 is that they will release separate version of OS for Tablet and Desktop PC.

Traditional desktop will never go away.

Says it all; especially the final statement. Lets hope you're right about separate versions for Tablet/Desktop ... or at least simple switches. :thumb:

 

[Night Hawk]

The lean will be on touchscreen support already included in the OS. We still don't have a look at the finished 8 however since the RP hasn't revealed as much about 8 as the RC did for 7. Two options seen when installing for with or without the Metro with the standard desktop option available would prove to be the much smarter move MS could make.

They seem intend on pushing Metro Apps after stripping features out of 8 which would also seem to be the trend MS is taking as well as ousting the traditional Start, Programs, and shutdown options. Many didn't like the Aero in Vista but it was still seen in 7! You can't say for sure just what MS will do for the versions that follow while you can expect some things simply wouldn't be coming back the way they have been.

 

[Mustang]

For a desktop PC the alpha-numeric start menu IMHO is streets ahead in efficiency compared to a tile start menu.

MS haven't removed the start menu. They've simply replaced the alpha-numeric with tile.

MS is taking as well as ousting the traditional Start, Programs, and shutdown options. Many didn't like the Aero in Vista but it was still seen in 7!

Aero is expendible, but not traditional Start, Programs, and shutdown options. Charms alternative doesn't really cut it.

Despite the various work arounds like Classic Shell, it still sticks in my craw that MS refuse to provide these options when they can be so easily implemented.