What's new

The worst thing since Microsoft Bob: What is MS thinking?

beedubaya

New Member
I am not sure how many people here are old enough to remember Microsoft Bob, but it has gone down in history as one of the worst Microsoft products and worst interface blunders of all time. Now, imagine if in 1996, Microsoft decided to ship a version of Windows that included Bob as the default interface, and not only that, it FORCED you to use it, and if that wasn't enough, it crippled the "classic" interface to the point of unusability. That is exactly what is being done in Windows 8 with the Metro interface, which is complete and total lunacy on a desktop or laptop computer.

I have been a computer and Microsoft enthusiast since Windows 3.1, and this is the first version other than Windows ME I will not touch with a 20 foot pole. I even used Vista on launch, and while it was rough the first year, after Service Pack 2 it really worked quite well. Though by SP2 Vista had evolved from a disaster to a worthwhile upgrade from XP, the damage and public perception had been done so Microsoft had to repackage it and drop the Vista brand to sell it to the masses, so Windows 7 was born. As horrible as the initial launch and public perception of Vista was, I think Windows 8 is going to make Vista look like the good ole' days.

First, remember how up-in-arms users were about UAC? That was a very simple change. Metro is going to require them to completely relearn the PC. Yes, Microsoft has done interface overhauls before, but a "classic" option has always been available. Windows 8 is the first major interface overhaul that is forced on the user without the option of a classic interface that is not crippled. Even Windows 95, which introduced the Explorer shell we all know and love, still came with Program Manager and File Manager for Windows 3.1 die-hards to use if they so chose. Within the first few months of its release, I predict there will be such a public outcry that OEMs will be forced to keep offering Windows 7.

Second, Microsoft is making a big mistake thinking that I want my $2000 gaming PC with a 30" monitor to behave like a smartphone. Metro on a desktop PC or laptop is counter-productive. It makes what I do every day harder, and is super ugly on large screens to boot. It may make sense on a tablet or smartphone, but is ridiculous with a keyboard and mouse and 30" screen. Yes, you can use the desktop but they have completely removed the option of Aero and have taken the interface back to something out of the 1990s. Worse yet, they have completely removed the Start menu so the only way to launch programs is by using Metro. Metro in and of itself isn't bad and Microsoft is trying to become a larger player in the tablet and phone markets, but shouldn't they have left a classic option available as to not alienate people who prefer a desktop OS?

Third, businesses are still by and large running Windows XP, ever so slowly migrating to Windows 7. Why does Microsoft think businesses are going to want to jump on Windows 8 which will cripple productivity and require extensive training to teach users to use the new interface? Windows 8 will be a complete failure with the enterprise, even moreso than Vista was. Windows 7 will be the business OS for the next 5-7 years as XP is phased out. Microsoft will be forced to keep offering it and most likely extend its lifespan as it did for XP until 2014. Another thing to consider is being that employees will have to be completely retrained on how to use the computer with a dumbed down, crippled Windows 8, why not just jump ship to a non-Windows platform and avoid the mess to begin with? I have never been an avid Linux supporter as it is a niche market, but this is the first time I am seeing what could be an open window for Linux to gain some marketshare.

The only thing Microsoft can really hope for with this release is that Windows-based tablets and smartphones do take off, but is history is any guide (think Zune, Windows Phone 7), every time Microsoft tries to enter a market several years too late, its a bloodbath. If Windows-based mobile devices fail, then the future of Microsoft may be in jeopardy. They will be forced to release Windows 9 quickly, which hopefully will restore usability on the desktop and laptop. In the mean time, Microsoft should keep Windows 7 available for desktops and laptops alongside Windows 8 for mobile devices.

I will continue to use 7 as long as I can, and will NEVER run Windows 8 on my desktop computer. Keep in mind I DID use Vista and this is the first release I have ever been so disgusted by there's no way I would even consider using it.

Bottom line is Windows 8 is akin to a bad April fools joke. It's almost incomprehensible how a company like Microsoft and force this garbage on us. This trash heap makes Vista and ME look like good, solid releases, so when people say Windows 8 is the next Vista, I always correct them and tell them its really the next Microsoft Bob. 5 years from now, computer enthusiasts will laugh and joke about Windows 8 just like they did Bob.
 

My Computer

jimbo45

New Member
VIP Member
Guru
Hi there

Lets go over issues with W8 since it seems to me that you might have some misconceptions about W8.

1) Windows 8 Metro is as most agree absolutely not fit for purposes for all sorts of applications -- and for large screens especially with multiple monitors it is TOTALLY USELESSl -- but even M/s has relented -- the RTM version will allow you to go straight to the desktop.

2) If you use Classic Shell you can get the old style menu back and you can make the interface even look like XP if you want. Classic shell also has an option to skip the Metro screens so you never need ever to bother with Metro if you don't want to.

Classic shell available HERE if you want to try it (It's free and from SourceForge --reliable site anyway).

Welcome to Classic Shell

3) Desktop -- you can customize it with W7 themes so what's "The old fashioned" issue here with the appearance.

4) Aero glass IMO looked hideous in any case -- OK some people like it but most people I know never use it.

5) W8's performance, ease of installation, automatic repairability, and hardware detection makes even W7 look like a 3 legged donkey in comparison.

6) Built in Virtual ISO mounting - convienient if you don't have physical DVD / CD drives - or even if you do.

7) Backup actually WORKS - although I'd still advise a robust commercial full featured backup such as say Acronis or similar.

8) Built in support for Virtual machines via HYPER-V -- works fine too and also allows VM's to run in the background -- huge advantage of that is that remote users can access a VM without even needing an account on the HOST machine. (Ok you can do this with VMware but VMware workstation costs around 180 USD, HYPER-V is FREE with W8).

9) Windows to go - some versions of W8 will boot and run from a portable device (even your smart phone if your Bios recognizes the phone's micro sdHC card as an external USB device). I've successfully run W8 to go from a Smartphone plugged into a work computer --works fine !!!. While this feature is only going to be available in Enterprise version of W8 there will be ways to make this feature work with other versions of W8.

I Really HATED W8 at first but after persevering for a while I can't actually see myself going back to W7 again unless I really have to. I have some apps that still have to run on XP -- these run simply on an XP VM.


Here's a desktop shot of mine running W8 on a Sony laptop with Fractals theme and Classic Shell installed

If you didn't know it was W8 you'd swear that it was W7. !!!

(BTW it's quite fun running W8 Windows to Go from a mobile phone plugged into a "bog standard" laptop -- even our "Po Faced" I.T guys seemed impressed - and normally even if you gave them a 1000 dollars (US) each they STILL wouldn't smile) !!.

Cheers
jimbo
 

Attachments

  • w8.png
    w8.png
    160.5 KB · Views: 1,382
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Monitor(s) Displays
    1 X LG 40 inch TV
    Hard Drives
    SSD's * 3 (Samsung 840 series) 250 GB
    2 X 3 TB sata
    5 X 1 TB sata
    Internet Speed
    0.12 GB/s (120Mb/s)

Coke Robot

New Member
Pro User
Gold Member
I never really knew or used Microsoft Bob, and I looked it up on the YouTube, I'm sorry but Bob and Windows 8 are just not anywhere near each other. Bob was literally the most idiotic UI design/concept the world has seen.

Windows 8 is different, and I think should be treated as such. Think businesses and people moving from Windows 3.11 to Windows 95. Think of the usage issues that brought to many people.

Windows 8 has primarily chucked out a good portion of old design and practices in lieu of new design and practices. Honestly, I don't know if 8 can be truly compared the previous versions as its so different. But I do have to speculate on the notion that it looks too tabletly or smartphony than a desktop OS. The main difference I see from the Start Screen to Desktop UI is simply that the Start Screen has solid colored tiles with the program icon on it with a title. On the Desktop, those same program shortcuts are just icons over a wallpaper background that are smaller with a smaller title. If one took out the colored tiles and kept the icons and titles on the Start Screen, it would look more like the Desktop. To me, the Start Screen kind seems more like a sub-Desktop than anything in that light.

There are quite a few things to really like about Windows 8, one must need an open mind and the realization that this is a new Windows era that 8 is transitioning into. It's about leaving the past and into the new.

You'll find that there are some people here on this forum that just couldn't stand to use Windows 8, like jimbo :), and once they used it (maybe installing Classic Shell) they warmed up to it and can stand to use it. It might even take a simple context entry when one right clicks on a folder or Library and Pin to Start so one can use it as a Desktop-centric OS.

Screenshot (19).png

I don't know, I think people will be up in arms about the UI change, there will hesitation and resistance at first, but once people get to use it and use it more and more, it will catch on.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014

McRuff

Member
Member
I totally agree with the OP. Sure you can tweak it to look like 7 using 3rd party applications. Sure they have made some nice improvements under the hood. But in the end of the day Metro is totally ruining the whole operating system.

The people annoyed by these changes are not Apple users, not Linux users but Microsoft users and Fan-boys (ex) like me.

I can see Microsoft and Metro being used as an example in future years as an example to students on how not to treat your customers.

I know other posters will say stick to Win 7 and I will. However Microsoft have to know their customers aren't happy. Give us the option to turn off the mobile phone interface.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Built
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 3930K
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte X79s
    Memory
    16.0GB Corsair Dominator DDR3-1866
    Graphics Card(s)
    MSI GTX 680
    Sound Card
    Sound Blaster ZxR
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell U2711 and 2407WFP
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440 and 1920x1200
    Hard Drives
    3 x SSD
    Mix of 2, 3 and 4 TB Hard Drives
    PSU
    Corsair HX1050
    Case
    Lian Li Diamond Series PC-Z70 Full Tower, Black
    Cooling
    Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo CPU cooler
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Revolution
    Internet Speed
    20mbs
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Avast Free and Malwarebytes Anti-Malware Pro
    Other Info
    Win 8.1.1 and Office 2013 via Virtualbox

beedubaya

New Member
I totally agree with the OP. Sure you can tweak it to look like 7 using 3rd party applications. Sure they have made some nice improvements under the hood. But in the end of the day Metro is totally ruining the whole operating system.

The people annoyed by these changes are not Apple users, not Linux users but Microsoft users and Fan-boys (ex) like me.

I can see Microsoft and Metro being used as an example in future years as an example to students on how not to treat your customers.

I know other posters will say stick to Win 7 and I will. However Microsoft have to know their customers aren't happy. Give us the option to turn off the mobile phone interface.

Completely agreed. Microsoft SHOULD give us the option of a classic interface without having to install a third party app. Another thing to point out is while we MAY (this is up for debate) be moving into a world in the future where tablets and smartphones are the dominant computing devices, we are not there yet. We are in fact nowhere near there yet as millions of people still use fully functional computers and except to have such functionality. How many people with a top-of-the-line desktop PC today want to go back to the DOS days of full screen apps and clumsy multitasking? That is what you get with Windows 8 and Metro.

Until this, Microsoft has always done a great job of bridging the gap between the old and new. Based on Microsoft's history, it makes absolutely no sense for them to force this big of change on us the way they are doing. And if you like Metro, then thats great, but I found it counter-intuitive, clumsy, and downright ugly on my 30" monitor and will NOT be using Windows 8.
 

My Computer

pparks1

Well-Known Member
VIP Member
Guru
1) Windows 8 Metro is as most agree absolutely not fit for purposes for all sorts of applications -- and for large screens especially with multiple monitors it is TOTALLY USELESSl -- but even M/s has relented -- the RTM version will allow you to go straight to the desktop.
Agreed, for my use, and anybody I know in the corporate world, this simply isn't going to work.

2) If you use Classic Shell you can get the old style menu back and you can make the interface even look like XP if you want. Classic shell also has an option to skip the Metro screens so you never need ever to bother with Metro if you don't want to.

Classic shell available HERE if you want to try it (It's free and from SourceForge --reliable site anyway).
It's just too bad you have to go 3rd party for such a simple choice.

4) Aero glass IMO looked hideous in any case -- OK some people like it but most people I know never use it.
I guess I don't see, or am not annoyed enough by the differences between the two to have an opinion. Aero is turned on across the board in the shop where I work and most seem just fine with it.

5) W8's performance, ease of installation, automatic repairability, and hardware detection makes even W7 look like a 3 legged donkey in comparison.
This one here is the one I'm most interested in, but have yet to really experience. I found 7 easy to install, and 8 is too. I've yet to really experience anything broke in 8 to see how it automatically recovers. And with the hardware that I use, hardware detection wasn't much of an issue with windows 7 either.

6) Built in Virtual ISO mounting - convienient if you don't have physical DVD / CD drives - or even if you do.
This is nice. Although, i've had freebie apps for years that would do it on XP, Vista and 7. But not having to go 3rd party for such simple tasks is always appealing to me.

8) Built in support for Virtual machines via HYPER-V -- works fine too and also allows VM's to run in the background -- huge advantage of that is that remote users can access a VM without even needing an account on the HOST machine. (Ok you can do this with VMware but VMware workstation costs around 180 USD, HYPER-V is FREE with W8).
Yes, agreed this one really is nice. Although I don't see myself actually using Hyper-V since I am a vmware guy and virtualize more Linux stuff than anything else...but I know other people who just run Windows VM will be able to use it just fine.

9) Windows to go - some versions of W8 will boot and run from a portable device (even your smart phone if your Bios recognizes the phone's micro sdHC card as an external USB device). I've successfully run W8 to go from a Smartphone plugged into a work computer --works fine !!!. While this feature is only going to be available in Enterprise version of W8 there will be ways to make this feature work with other versions of W8.
Time will tell I guess on whether it will work on other versions of W8. Leaving it strictly on the Enterprise version that no consumer has access to was a bit odd.

I Really HATED W8 at first but after persevering for a while I can't actually see myself going back to W7 again unless I really have to. I have some apps that still have to run on XP -- these run simply on an XP VM.
I'm alright with Windows 8 as well....even without going 3rd party to get back a start menu. However, i've yet to feel the advantages I've found to offset the cost of the upgrade (even at $40). So, I just plan to stay put on Windows 7 on my own personal machine for this reason.

You'll find that there are some people here on this forum that just couldn't stand to use Windows 8, like jimbo :), and once they used it (maybe installing Classic Shell) they warmed up to it and can stand to use it. It might even take a simple context entry when one right clicks on a folder or Library and Pin to Start so one can use it as a Desktop-centric OS.
Time will tell whether people are happy with spending $40 or more to upgrade, then perhaps having to install 3rd party tools to make it work as they want...and whether they have more or fewer problems once they do.

I just don't find Win8 to be revolutionary in any way. If you get rid of Metro and add back the classic start menu, it's like Windows 7 with a service pack. Just not too exciting...and I think that is how many are going to feel in the end. Especially when the nifty features like ISO mounting, better backup, hyper-V and Windows-To-Go are not used by the vast majority who touch this OS.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Self-Built in July 2009
    CPU
    Intel Q9550 2.83Ghz OC'd to 3.40Ghz
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R rev. 1.1, F12 BIOS
    Memory
    8GB G.Skill PI DDR2-800, 4-4-4-12 timings
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA 1280MB Nvidia GeForce GTX570
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC899A 8 channel onboard audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    23" Acer x233H
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Intel X25-M 80GB Gen 2 SSD
    Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black, 32MB cache. WD1001FALS
    PSU
    Corsair 620HX modular
    Case
    Antec P182
    Cooling
    stock
    Keyboard
    ABS M1 Mechanical
    Mouse
    Logitech G9 Laser Mouse
    Internet Speed
    15/2 cable modem
    Other Info
    Windows and Linux enthusiast. Logitech G35 Headset.

sgage

New Member
Member
Windows 8, whatever else it may or may not be, is not garbage. Personally, I have absolutely no use for Metro or its apps - as far as I am concerned, that stuff belongs on a smaller, touchscreen device, be it a tablet or a smartphone. I am strictly a desktop user.

But I am here to tell you that you simply never have to deal with Metro if you don't want to. There are free replacements for the Start Menu that work at least as well as anything MS ever created. I use Classic Shell, which also allows booting straight to the desktop. It is a piece of cake to turn off the Lock Screen. Pretty soon, I forget I'm not in Windows 7.

The Windows 8 desktop experience is excellent, once you're there - fast, clean, stable, compatible. I have had no trouble with it running my motley collection of software that I've gathered over the years. There are under-the-hood improvements as well.

So, simmer down, can the hysterics, and give Windows 8 a try with Classic Shell or one of the other start menu programs. It changed my outlook on the whole thing - I think it is a great Windows version. I will most likely shell out the (mere) $40 for the upgrade.

I am not sure how many people here are old enough to remember Microsoft Bob, but it has gone down in history as one of the worst Microsoft products and worst interface blunders of all time. Now, imagine if in 1996, Microsoft decided to ship a version of Windows that included Bob as the default interface, and not only that, it FORCED you to use it, and if that wasn't enough, it crippled the "classic" interface to the point of unusability. That is exactly what is being done in Windows 8 with the Metro interface, which is complete and total lunacy on a desktop or laptop computer.

I have been a computer and Microsoft enthusiast since Windows 3.1, and this is the first version other than Windows ME I will not touch with a 20 foot pole. I even used Vista on launch, and while it was rough the first year, after Service Pack 2 it really worked quite well. Though by SP2 Vista had evolved from a disaster to a worthwhile upgrade from XP, the damage and public perception had been done so Microsoft had to repackage it and drop the Vista brand to sell it to the masses, so Windows 7 was born. As horrible as the initial launch and public perception of Vista was, I think Windows 8 is going to make Vista look like the good ole' days.

First, remember how up-in-arms users were about UAC? That was a very simple change. Metro is going to require them to completely relearn the PC. Yes, Microsoft has done interface overhauls before, but a "classic" option has always been available. Windows 8 is the first major interface overhaul that is forced on the user without the option of a classic interface that is not crippled. Even Windows 95, which introduced the Explorer shell we all know and love, still came with Program Manager and File Manager for Windows 3.1 die-hards to use if they so chose. Within the first few months of its release, I predict there will be such a public outcry that OEMs will be forced to keep offering Windows 7.

Second, Microsoft is making a big mistake thinking that I want my $2000 gaming PC with a 30" monitor to behave like a smartphone. Metro on a desktop PC or laptop is counter-productive. It makes what I do every day harder, and is super ugly on large screens to boot. It may make sense on a tablet or smartphone, but is ridiculous with a keyboard and mouse and 30" screen. Yes, you can use the desktop but they have completely removed the option of Aero and have taken the interface back to something out of the 1990s. Worse yet, they have completely removed the Start menu so the only way to launch programs is by using Metro. Metro in and of itself isn't bad and Microsoft is trying to become a larger player in the tablet and phone markets, but shouldn't they have left a classic option available as to not alienate people who prefer a desktop OS?

Third, businesses are still by and large running Windows XP, ever so slowly migrating to Windows 7. Why does Microsoft think businesses are going to want to jump on Windows 8 which will cripple productivity and require extensive training to teach users to use the new interface? Windows 8 will be a complete failure with the enterprise, even moreso than Vista was. Windows 7 will be the business OS for the next 5-7 years as XP is phased out. Microsoft will be forced to keep offering it and most likely extend its lifespan as it did for XP until 2014. Another thing to consider is being that employees will have to be completely retrained on how to use the computer with a dumbed down, crippled Windows 8, why not just jump ship to a non-Windows platform and avoid the mess to begin with? I have never been an avid Linux supporter as it is a niche market, but this is the first time I am seeing what could be an open window for Linux to gain some marketshare.

The only thing Microsoft can really hope for with this release is that Windows-based tablets and smartphones do take off, but is history is any guide (think Zune, Windows Phone 7), every time Microsoft tries to enter a market several years too late, its a bloodbath. If Windows-based mobile devices fail, then the future of Microsoft may be in jeopardy. They will be forced to release Windows 9 quickly, which hopefully will restore usability on the desktop and laptop. In the mean time, Microsoft should keep Windows 7 available for desktops and laptops alongside Windows 8 for mobile devices.

I will continue to use 7 as long as I can, and will NEVER run Windows 8 on my desktop computer. Keep in mind I DID use Vista and this is the first release I have ever been so disgusted by there's no way I would even consider using it.

Bottom line is Windows 8 is akin to a bad April fools joke. It's almost incomprehensible how a company like Microsoft and force this garbage on us. This trash heap makes Vista and ME look like good, solid releases, so when people say Windows 8 is the next Vista, I always correct them and tell them its really the next Microsoft Bob. 5 years from now, computer enthusiasts will laugh and joke about Windows 8 just like they did Bob.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Compac Presario SR5518F
    CPU
    Dual Pentium E2180 (2 GHz)
    Motherboard
    MS-7525 (Boston)
    Memory
    4 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GeForce 8500 GT

xpclient

Classic Shell tester
Member
As one who's part of the Classic Shell project and great Windows enthusiast and advanced needs from the OS, I would recommend Windows 7 over Windows 8. Just my opinion though.

The desktop experience in Windows 8 is harmed in far more ways than just removing Start Menu. See here: Features and configuration options removed in Windows 8 Consumer Preview Although the average user may not be affected by these. I get bothered and annoyed very very very much because I am an enthusiast and advanced user and I liked these Windows 7 features very much. And I am against dumbing down of the OS. We need a professional OS, in that sense, Windows 8 "Pro" is a joke compared to Windows 7 Ultimate or XP/2000 Professional.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Microsoft Windows
    Other Info
    I do the testing and give feedback on User Experience and ideas for Classic Shell.

pparks1

Well-Known Member
VIP Member
Guru
But I am here to tell you that you simply never have to deal with Metro if you don't want to. There are free replacements for the Start Menu that work at least as well as anything MS ever created. I use Classic Shell, which also allows booting straight to the desktop.
It's just a darn shame that this isn't an option in the OS.

The Windows 8 desktop experience is excellent, once you're there - fast, clean, stable, compatible. I have had no trouble with it running my motley collection of software that I've gathered over the years.
That's how I feel about Windows 7 too. I find that Windows 7 and Windows 8 are just about the same in this respect.

So, simmer down, can the hysterics, and give Windows 8 a try with Classic Shell or one of the other start menu programs. It changed my outlook on the whole thing - I think it is a great Windows version. I will most likely shell out the (mere) $40 for the upgrade.
As long as you feel it's worth it, then that is all that matters. There are some of us who don't see the value in this upgrade, even at a mere $40. I plan to just stay put on Windows 7 and keep my $40 to use on something else. Not necessarily because Windows 8 is bad, just because it doesn't bring enough to the table to make me want to spend money on it. I just feel that if I disable Metro, and re-enable the start menu, I've more or less created Windows 7 with a service pack and I wouldn't spend $40 on a service pack.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Self-Built in July 2009
    CPU
    Intel Q9550 2.83Ghz OC'd to 3.40Ghz
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R rev. 1.1, F12 BIOS
    Memory
    8GB G.Skill PI DDR2-800, 4-4-4-12 timings
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA 1280MB Nvidia GeForce GTX570
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC899A 8 channel onboard audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    23" Acer x233H
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Intel X25-M 80GB Gen 2 SSD
    Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black, 32MB cache. WD1001FALS
    PSU
    Corsair 620HX modular
    Case
    Antec P182
    Cooling
    stock
    Keyboard
    ABS M1 Mechanical
    Mouse
    Logitech G9 Laser Mouse
    Internet Speed
    15/2 cable modem
    Other Info
    Windows and Linux enthusiast. Logitech G35 Headset.

sgage

New Member
Member
But I am here to tell you that you simply never have to deal with Metro if you don't want to. There are free replacements for the Start Menu that work at least as well as anything MS ever created. I use Classic Shell, which also allows booting straight to the desktop.
It's just a darn shame that this isn't an option in the OS.

The Windows 8 desktop experience is excellent, once you're there - fast, clean, stable, compatible. I have had no trouble with it running my motley collection of software that I've gathered over the years.
That's how I feel about Windows 7 too. I find that Windows 7 and Windows 8 are just about the same in this respect.

So, simmer down, can the hysterics, and give Windows 8 a try with Classic Shell or one of the other start menu programs. It changed my outlook on the whole thing - I think it is a great Windows version. I will most likely shell out the (mere) $40 for the upgrade.
As long as you feel it's worth it, then that is all that matters. There are some of us who don't see the value in this upgrade, even at a mere $40. I plan to just stay put on Windows 7 and keep my $40 to use on something else. Not necessarily because Windows 8 is bad, just because it doesn't bring enough to the table to make me want to spend money on it. I just feel that if I disable Metro, and re-enable the start menu, I've more or less created Windows 7 with a service pack and I wouldn't spend $40 on a service pack.

Well, I see your point, though there is some under-the-hood stuff that might be worth it, and it does perform well. But I'll admit that my first reaction to Windows 8 was "I'm staying with Windows 7 as long as I can". This from a guy who was (happily) using Windows 2000 right up until 2008 :D

We'll see how it all shakes out. One thing is for sure - I am not going to worry about it!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Compac Presario SR5518F
    CPU
    Dual Pentium E2180 (2 GHz)
    Motherboard
    MS-7525 (Boston)
    Memory
    4 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GeForce 8500 GT

beedubaya

New Member
As one who's part of the Classic Shell project and great Windows enthusiast and advanced needs from the OS, I would recommend Windows 7 over Windows 8. Just my opinion though.

The desktop experience in Windows 8 is harmed in far more ways than just removing Start Menu. See here: Features and configuration options removed in Windows 8 Consumer Preview Although the average user may not be affected by these. I get bothered and annoyed very very very much because I am an enthusiast and advanced user and I liked these Windows 7 features very much. And I am against dumbing down of the OS. We need a professional OS, in that sense, Windows 8 "Pro" is a joke compared to Windows 7 Ultimate or XP/2000 Professional.

This is exactly why Microsoft should really consider splitting its business-oriented and consumer-oriented product line again like it was back in the 9x/NT days. Have a fully functional, fully configurable OS for business and power users and a dumbed-down one for consumers. The current model isn't working, which is one reason so many businesses are clinging to XP and will only upgrade to 7 once support ends for XP. In addition, I think Windows 7 should remain available OEM and retail through the life cycle of Windows 8 so that users at least have an option.

I for one hope there is such a public outcry about Windows 8 that Microsoft actually listens and releases an excellent Windows 9. Word is even Windows Server 2013 will be based off Metro. What corporation in their right mind is going to want their server to behave like a smartphone?
 

My Computer

MD678685

x64 all the way!
Member
I'm not trying to cause any form of argument here and am sorry if I do end up doing so.
Windows 8 will be different at release, not betteror worse. It has really kicked off maybe millions of discussions and arguments and flaming problems on forums by adding Metro into it. Metro has been annoying for people who think "If I can't stand two seconds of it, it will officially be the end of the world!!!!!!!!" where actually they didn't try to get used to it. I am a laptop user who really hated Metro to start with because Metro is bad with an overheating touchpad next to my keyboard but now I like it and use it a lot. I have officially stopped using Hotmail in a browser because of Metro and am actually waiting for Metro ports of everything else. Yes, throwing in the Charms bar to take over the Start Menu and the Start Screen to take over All Programs seems a bad idea to some, but to others like me it is good and useful, even if fiddly.
Word is even Windows Server 2013 will be based off Metro. What corporation in their right mind is going to want their server to behave like a smartphone?
Okay, now this is going just a bit far... and the answer to that is not existent.:sarc:
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 Pro x64(!)
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    acer Aspire AS7736G
    CPU
    Intel Core 2 Duo T6600
    Motherboard
    Acer JV50
    Memory
    DDR2 4096MB
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVidia GeForce G210M
    Sound Card
    nVidia High Definition Audio, Realtek High Definition Audio (basically IDK)
    Monitor(s) Displays
    17.3" LED LCD Laptop Screen
    Screen Resolution
    1600x900
    Hard Drives
    Hitachi HTS545050B9A300
    Iomega Select Desktop 2251799813685248(?)B(2TB) HDD
    PSU
    ?
    Internet Speed
    Around 5Mbps
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    avast! Antivirus 8
    Other Info
    X64 FOR THE WIN :D

SIW2

Well-Known Member
Team Member
I think a lot will take the exact same stance as beedubaya.

MS is behaving very strangely.

Pretty much everybody agrees win8 metro is ok for a tablet, but not the right thing for desktop use. If MS included it as an option - then Win8 would have got a far better reception.

That must be obvious to MS.

Why, then are they behaving like this?

The only explanation I can think of is they fear people will use the classic desktop and ignore Metro completely.

They have decided to take a huge risk and try and force it.

I don't know if they can get away with it.

They will probably get a small bite of the tablet market ( and I think they might miss the biggest segment there, too ).

That will be a bigger share of tablets than they had before - perhaps that is all they expecting.

I think overall it will be a damp squib, the sales won't be great - it will be another Vista in that sense, and win9 will be where they can make corrections.

Unless there are substantial changes in the rtm - we don't know yet.
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop

icet

Member
Member
As one who's part of the Classic Shell project and great Windows enthusiast and advanced needs from the OS, I would recommend Windows 7 over Windows 8. Just my opinion though.

The desktop experience in Windows 8 is harmed in far more ways than just removing Start Menu. See here: Features and configuration options removed in Windows 8 Consumer Preview Although the average user may not be affected by these. I get bothered and annoyed very very very much because I am an enthusiast and advanced user and I liked these Windows 7 features very much. And I am against dumbing down of the OS. We need a professional OS, in that sense, Windows 8 "Pro" is a joke compared to Windows 7 Ultimate or XP/2000 Professional.




With reference to your link which shows the features and configuration options removed from Windows 8, I am confident that these all would be added again in Windows 8 through third party software. We are going to see a lot of third party software after the release of Windows 8!:thumb:
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7

beedubaya

New Member
The only explanation I can think of is they fear people will use the classic desktop and ignore Metro completely.

They have decided to take a huge risk and try and force it.

I don't know if they can get away with it.

Agreed. If Metro was so great and such an amazing step forward as Windows 8 defenders claim, then Microsoft could include it as an optional feature and wouldn't have to worry about people not using it. They could do just like they did in the Windows 95 days, when they included a fully functional Program Manager and File Manager, but the new Explorer interface was such a step forward that few people used the legacy interface.

Another reason MS may be forcing Metro on all users is to force developers to write tablet-centric programs. Without a significant tablet OS marketshare, developers aren't going to jump on the MS tablet/phone bandwagon.


They will probably get a small bite of the tablet market ( and I think they might be another, separate error there, too ).

Yes, this is a big issue and a big gamble. Every time Microsoft tries this kind of stuff they are always a couple of years too late and it flops disastrously. Just take a look at the Zune and more recently Windows Phone 7.
 

My Computer

Coke Robot

New Member
Pro User
Gold Member
iLOL'd - 7 12 2012 5 10 10 PM.jpg
:)
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014

aquatarkus

Member
Member
Hi there

Lets go over issues with W8 since it seems to me that you might have some misconceptions about W8.

1) Windows 8 Metro is as most agree absolutely not fit for purposes for all sorts of applications -- and for large screens especially with multiple monitors it is TOTALLY USELESSl -- but even M/s has relented -- the RTM version will allow you to go straight to the desktop.

jimbo
Sorry but where did you get that piece of infomation from, the only way to go straight to the desktop (with start menu etc) is via a couple of add on programs Start8, classic shell. can you point to the information or better still a link from Microsoft where they state that we will be able to boot straight to the desktop and not use Metro.

Regards

Aquatarkus
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win 8 Pro
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Self Build
    CPU
    AMD AM3+ Bulldozer FX-8 8150
    Motherboard
    Asus
    Memory
    16 gig
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon 7850 2 gig
    Sound Card
    Asus Xonar Essence STX
    Monitor(s) Displays
    3 x Iiyama Prolite E2773HS (IPS)
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080 x 3
    Hard Drives
    1 x Kingston 240gig HyperX 3K SSD
    1 x 1TB Hitachi Sata III drive
    12 x TB storage on server
    PSU
    Corsair TXM 850watt Modular
    Case
    Thermaltake Shark
    Cooling
    Corsair Hydro H60
    Keyboard
    Logitech S510
    Mouse
    Logitech T650 touchpad
    Internet Speed
    120mb (Virgin Media

jimbo45

New Member
VIP Member
Guru
As one who's part of the Classic Shell project and great Windows enthusiast and advanced needs from the OS, I would recommend Windows 7 over Windows 8. Just my opinion though.

The desktop experience in Windows 8 is harmed in far more ways than just removing Start Menu. See here: Features and configuration options removed in Windows 8 Consumer Preview Although the average user may not be affected by these. I get bothered and annoyed very very very much because I am an enthusiast and advanced user and I liked these Windows 7 features very much. And I am against dumbing down of the OS. We need a professional OS, in that sense, Windows 8 "Pro" is a joke compared to Windows 7 Ultimate or XP/2000 Professional.

This is exactly why Microsoft should really consider splitting its business-oriented and consumer-oriented product line again like it was back in the 9x/NT days. Have a fully functional, fully configurable OS for business and power users and a dumbed-down one for consumers. The current model isn't working, which is one reason so many businesses are clinging to XP and will only upgrade to 7 once support ends for XP. In addition, I think Windows 7 should remain available OEM and retail through the life cycle of Windows 8 so that users at least have an option.

I for one hope there is such a public outcry about Windows 8 that Microsoft actually listens and releases an excellent Windows 9. Word is even Windows Server 2013 will be based off Metro. What corporation in their right mind is going to want their server to behave like a smartphone?

Actually it's not as bad as you think

Windows 2012 Server doesn't need the desktop to be enabled and can even be installed without a GUI -- it will run from the command line (a lot of extra decent commands have been added to the Power Shell). Metro is only visible if you "Enable Desktop Experience" via the Server settings -- For a genuine productive Server the idea of it having just the command line is ABSOLUTELY the right way to do this. I'm actually surprised they even allowed the desktop experience to be enabled at all.!


For the Windows RTM I'll check for where I read the info -- I think it was from the WZOR info - a usually reliable although Russian site for Windows information.

Cheers
jimbo
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Monitor(s) Displays
    1 X LG 40 inch TV
    Hard Drives
    SSD's * 3 (Samsung 840 series) 250 GB
    2 X 3 TB sata
    5 X 1 TB sata
    Internet Speed
    0.12 GB/s (120Mb/s)
Top