The Non-Touch Windows 8 Offers a Worse Experience than Win

March 15th, 2013, 17:52 GMT · By Bogdan Popa
[h=1]The Non-Touch Windows 8 Offers a Worse Experience than Windows 7, Says Analyst[/h]
Win 7 Non-Touchscreen-GUI.jpg

Windows 8, Microsoft’s latest bet in the operating system world, comes with great touch-optimized features, most of which are also available in the RT version supposed to be deployed on tablets.

While it’s also developed to serve as a major upgrade over Windows 7, the new operating system doesn’t make much sense on a computer that doesn’t feature a touchscreen display, Forrester senior analyst David Johnson said in an interview with InformationWeek.

Many Windows 8 PC buyers are actually asking retailers to downgrade to Windows 7, even though their newly purchased unit comes with a touchscreen unit but, in most cases, keeping the new software without such a display is a waste of time.

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chrisa

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Many Windows 8 PC buyers are actually asking retailers to downgrade to Windows 7, even though their newly purchased unit comes with a touchscreen unit but, in most cases, keeping the new software without such a display is a waste of time.

What a completely butchered up sentence on the part of that author. If it comes with a touchscreen, they're not downgrading to 7 lol. I can certainly see the point in going with 7 on a non-touch system, its just he butchered his words so badly I kinda wonder which high school he dropped out of to become a blogger.

Btw.. the Windows 8 Pro DVD still sits on the desk :>. Not in any hurry to upgrade the main system.. not when i have the SP to play with. The disk only cost me $30($15 for Pro, $15 to get the DVD in the mail), so it can stay a coaster for a bit. Maybe in the Summer when Blue hits.
 

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jimbo45

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Hi there
Again just a load of old cobblers -- whoever READS or even CARES about this stuff any more - and the author can't even be bothered to show a W8 screenshot either.

The author makes absolutely no reference either to the possibility of using EYE RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGY ( Samsung on the S4 is a start) in place of Touch which changes the whole nature of the game.

I would love when using TWO large monitors be able to flip between them either in the EXTEND mode or as two separate screens using eye motion rather than a mouse -- the only sensible thing the article says is that people don't really want TOUCH SCREENS on expensive large monitors -- and in any case if they are using the machine properly they would be sitting too far away from the monitors to touch them.

Eye recognition with a bit more development might just yet make this OS VERY desirable -- especially as you could possibly adapt the technology with NON Touch devices using simple things like a webcam which most laptops have built in to them anyway and as an external device only cost a very FEW dollars.

I propose like the "Razzies" to create the "Order of the Bull" award and start by nominating this article for the first candidate.
Screenshot enc.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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Night Hawk

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I doubt many even would want to have retina identification other then to log in with on their pcs. Finger print scanning would be another option for an extra device attached at the additional expense as well. Many however immediately wanted to downgrade to 7 once rushing at 8 when first out before having sampled the CP or RP builds! I've seen enough laptop users without 7 recovery media frustrated at 8 and looking for a way to get 7 back on again showing the reactions in Real World time by the uninformed to begin with!

As far as the touchscreen part of all this the author calls it correct when naming the article. MS didn't bother developing a new touchscreen capable gui for the desktop to begin with! Yet they call 8 a major release? No way! They short changed the desktop in favor of the new Tablets they have out with RT running on them and borrowed the RT gui instead. That''s what you would call "Cutting Corners to Make Ends Meet"(an even better 8 blog title) while the only actual new work is hidden in the core level.

I think most that end up running 8 will likely be waiting for the next to come along hoping that will be back to a somewhat normal desktop OS rather then a cheap ripoff of the RT in seeing some actual progress at the desktop level. The fact that so many blogs about 8 reflect the Cons not any Pros goes to show MS has provided the ammo to begin with for the media to mop them up with!
 

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chrisa

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The author makes absolutely no reference either to the possibility of using EYE RECOGNITION TECHNOLOGY ( Samsung on the S4 is a start) in place of Touch which changes the whole nature of the game.

Lol. That sounds even wackier than touch to be honest.

I would love when using TWO large monitors be able to flip between them either in the EXTEND mode or as two separate screens using eye motion rather than a mouse -- the only sensible thing the article says is that people don't really want TOUCH SCREENS on expensive large monitors -- and in any case if they are using the machine properly they would be sitting too far away from the monitors to touch them.

I could see on the macro level to switch screens based on which one you're gazing at. But on the more micro-level, what would you do to signal a click of say a 'send' button.. blink? For someone paralyzed from the neck down... I could see it being a godsend. For general usage by a normal person, i can't imagine it being an enjoyable experience.

Either way.. with Win 8, it would just be building a driver for the tech to work with Windows. The camera itself(positioned similar to where a webcam would be?) would determine the location of the eye, which way its looking and project that forward to a point on or or off the screen. From there, your eye would work like a stylus and you'd have to determine what equals a click(blink? Squinting = drag?), but whatever signal that is comes from the hardware and get mapped like a stylus would in the driver. You wouldn't even need so much as a recompile. The key is getting enough fidelity of movement such that you can reliably focus on specific UI controls and provide commands using only your eyes.
 

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chrisa

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As far as the touchscreen part of all this the author calls it correct when naming the article. MS didn't bother developing a new touchscreen capable gui for the desktop to begin with!

Uh... not sure if you're just trying to be funny or not(probably are). But yes, they did. Just plug in a touchscreen monitor :p.
 

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Wenda

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I don't seem to have any trouble at all, banging a mouse around with ease in W8.

Sure, it's a bit 'different', but it's perfectly usable. Even in 'Metro-Mode'.

Wenda.
 

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jimbo45

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Hi there
It would be quite easy -- a lot of people already use it in some form already on smart phones where for example the screen stays on so long as you are looking at it.

I can't visualize any problems with looking at screen one and then doing a slightly slower head turn to screen two to move the image acoss to the second screen. You could easily set the hardware for the sensitivity before it's activated. The Software (OS) could specify where you wanted to enable the technology.

The First iteration of any of this will always be bulky and awkward -- I remember when the Mouse was introduced and people back then were complaining -- it's too much to look at a screen, use a keyboard AND a mouse. The Human brain isn't capable of using these devices in co-ordination with each other. And where are we now several decades later -- the mouse is an important everyday tool which still beats any other type of peripheral people have attempted to replace it with -- especially for things like text selection.

Implemented sensibly I can actually see the whole eye recognition system as developing into something really useful.

How about scrolling 2/3rds the way down a LONG document without having to use a mouse -- or selecting the MIDDLE 60% of a document. There are loads of possibilities and I don't think the learning would be too difficult either.

After a few years of this being introduced and improved on people will say - how did we manage before.

(@Wenda -- moving a mouse around of course isn't a problem -- I just think the Eye recognition technology will make some tasks a LOT easier -- try giving a presentation in a crowded room where the less pieces of gear you have the better. If you can move around your presentation without having to use a trackball or conventional mouse it would be a lot easier -- especially also if you are projecting your presentation using multiple monitors).


Cheers
jimbo
 

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Night Hawk

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As far as the touchscreen part of all this the author calls it correct when naming the article. MS didn't bother developing a new touchscreen capable gui for the desktop to begin with!

Uh... not sure if you're just trying to be funny or not(probably are). But yes, they did. Just plug in a touchscreen monitor :p.

It's simple fact! They took the RT tablet gui designed specifically for tablet and slapped it on 8 and simply because you can use a touchscreen monitor or click the oversized buttons won't make it an actual desktop gui but a shortcut for MS not to even spend any effort in that direction. Their main focus has been on Surface and RT to begin with taking a fast shortcut to put out something for OEMs to dump on new pcs.

You simply end up with an updated 7 core with the RT tablet gui slapped on fast as a cheap OS now that they have also stripped things out of the Windows OS to consider as well. People wanted a cheaper OS and they got it at a cost however!

While certain things at the core level were improved upon features were stripped out that had been incldued in previous versions now being charged for separately as well as making WMP useless wit the thinking there are too many media and dvd players out there so why have it included in Windows? "We'll cut some more corners!" Sound familiar?

The new Start screen and subbing for the Start orb or button are nothing while the Metro in your face to open each new program or a second IE window for example was hindsight as far as the desktop is concerned. On a tablet you only have one thing going at a time while on a desktop 8 is royal headache for any actual multitasker as far as productivity.

The Control Panel and other settings hidden in not known about tool bars and hidden right click menus only if you happen to right click in just the right spot notice also make it clumsy to work with. For the majority of users they are lost at first sight and then end up looking for a way back to 7 or Vista! For those of us who first saw the DP, CP, RP builds we either like it or hate it already having the first hand experience however. For some workarounds will help get through until the next MS success or flop shows up.
 

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jimbo45

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Hi there
What is it with this Start and lack of Desktop productivity thing.

At Boot up :

Windows 8 -- Start menu appears -- click on ANY STANDARD application tile and it starts the DESKTOP AND the application starts in Windowed mode -- ONE CLICK.

Windows 7 --- Desktop appears -- if you use the start Menu then its a minimum of TWO CLICKS even without scrolling

Both Windows 7 and Windows 8 can use DESKTOP short cuts and the Quick launch toolbar.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO START THE DESKTOP APP TO START USING "CLASSICAL APPLICATIONS"

Windows 8 ==> for system tasks very easy Windows key + X.

Customized toolbars such as programs / most used apps etc which give a much more flexible menu system than the global W7 menu which on smaller laptops can cover almost all your screen.

Desktop shortcuts can easily be created directly from Windows (File explorer) just like W7.

PLEASE can some desktop user just explain to me how W8 causes loss of productivity -- There are of course some things wrong with W8 but I fail in any shape or form to see how it causes you to be less productive than in using W7.

It's possible even without using 3rd party applications to replicate about 99% of Windows 7 if you want to -- you aren't forced to use or even acknowledge the existence of Metro apps -- I got rid of ALL of mine including that stupid STORE -- just remove them from the start screen.

Switching screens works easily (Mouse or Windows + P) too -- so I fail to comprehend what the big deal is in "Lack of Productivity".

I use TWO large monitors generally in Windowed mode and haven't found W8 inhibiting my work at all. Some things I'd change but on the whole the OS is slicker and I like the security built in and the Virtual Mounter (can run ISO files from HDD etc).

Actually having things like control panel available AWAY from a standard menu is quite good for "normal users" since I'll bet how many times have you fixed someone's machine because they've pressed the wrong button or changed some control panel setting accidently. Experienced or power users shouldn't even bat an eyelid at using Windows + X to get at the system stuff quickly and if you have your User applications Tiles at the LEFT of the start screen no scrolling is involved either when starting an application.

I'll bet I'm not the only person who has used LINUX in SU and deleted half the directories !!! or otherwise "broken the system" accidentally so making configuration changes slightly harder to tinker with for a "normal user" imo isn't a bad idea.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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Lee

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Thanks Jimbo for the well thought out post. I just wish that I still had the ability to write a response like yours. Age, strokes and diabetes have done a number on my brain. Your response was very thoughtful and to the point, albeit you and I know that there are going to be those who just don't want, or will not try to put two and two together when it come to Windows 8.
 
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Nugroho

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I really enjoy multi-touch touch pad. I can sweep, pinch, scroll, swipe from edge to access charm bar without leaving keyboard and keep my screen shines.
 

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jimbo45

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Thanks Jimbo for the well thought out post. I just wish that I still had the ability to write a response like yours. Age, strokes and diabetes have done a number on my brain. Your response was very thoughtful and to the point, albeit you and I know that there are going to be those who just don't want, or will not try to put two and two together when it come t Windows 8.


Thanks

Appreciate that someone reads the post rather than just chucking Vitriol around without even attempting to check to see if they really CAN use W8 decently. Of course we all hope there will be changes - but I don't think that's the real point - changes inevitably happen --I can really say now that I don't miss the Menu at all and even when I'm using W7 I don't bother with it either.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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jimbo45

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I doubt many even would want to have retina identification other then to log in with on their pcs. Finger print scanning would be another option for an extra device attached at the additional expense as well. Many however immediately wanted to downgrade to 7 once rushing at 8 when first out before having sampled the CP or RP builds! I've seen enough laptop users without 7 recovery media frustrated at 8 and looking for a way to get 7 back on again showing the reactions in Real World time by the uninformed to begin with!

As far as the touchscreen part of all this the author calls it correct when naming the article. MS didn't bother developing a new touchscreen capable gui for the desktop to begin with! Yet they call 8 a major release? No way! They short changed the desktop in favor of the new Tablets they have out with RT running on them and borrowed the RT gui instead. That''s what you would call "Cutting Corners to Make Ends Meet"(an even better 8 blog title) while the only actual new work is hidden in the core level.

I think most that end up running 8 will likely be waiting for the next to come along hoping that will be back to a somewhat normal desktop OS rather then a cheap ripoff of the RT in seeing some actual progress at the desktop level. The fact that so many blogs about 8 reflect the Cons not any Pros goes to show MS has provided the ammo to begin with for the media to mop them up with!

Hi there
@Nighthawk
I wasn't talking about RETINA RECOGNITION -- that's totally another topic - and it has its own dangers as Hollywood has amply shown that this can be overcome by removing the eyeball of the person who has access to whatever it is you want to access --Grusome thought - but it's already starting to happen with Biometrics such as finger tips being cut off etc.

I was talking about how you could use eye MOVEMENT in some form or other to replace simple touch operations like SWIPE. The technology is pretty primitive at the moment but it will improve as well as the users ability to control it.

I'm actually quite excited about this whole area. OK it might take a few years to get this into a form, where people are comfortable with it but even today if I had that simple form of technology available on my computer I'd love to experiment with it.

Simple things like say when you leave the room and want to switch off - a wink or whatever could automate the shutdown process etc.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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munin

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I have Windows 8 on two laptops with touchscreen, and have no problems using them with the touchscreen, or only with mouse and keyboard. I work from the desktop, with Win 7 meny, or from Metro. Whatever works best. Using touchsrcreen as much as possible with the left hand, mouse with right hand and keyboard shortcuts with left hand, I can work much faster than in Win 7, and for my needs I can do everything I need and want to do in 8. When people find out what you can do with Win 8 and touchscreen, Apple might be in trouble.
Of course, there are things that could, and should, be better. Lets hope the usual service packs will take care of that.
 

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Jf1450

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PLEASE can some desktop user just explain to me how W8 causes loss of productivity -- There are of course some things wrong with W8 but I fail in any shape or form to see how it causes you to be less productive than in using W7.

Not using a desktop but a non touch screen laptop (Asus G75). Maybe it's just me or my laptop or the phase of the moon, I don't know. But like that hilarious animation illustrated, every now and then, often enough to be aggravating, that gremlin pops up and farts in my face. I'm talking several times a day, not once a week. I'll be typing away and brush the touchpad or something and a date/time window pops up, the charm bar may rear its ugly head, a window might pop up showing all the apps I have open or I'll be thrown entirely back in Metro/Modern at the screen that shows all installed applications. And this is when using the W8 desktop. Sure, not the end of the world but really aggravating and distracting enough to cause a loss of concentration and by association, productivity. Just my 2 cents; that and $2.51 more will get you a Starbucks venti.

-jeff
 
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pcRat

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:thumb: :thumb: jimbo #10 and his other enlightening posts.

Nice to read posts which don't bash 8 continuously. Even when you think MS could've should've done something different, you still mention the good features & improvements available today from MS.
50 years ago, this lifestyle was still in museums, comic books & sci-fi movies. And still, so many squawk about the start button.
I'm not a tech person nor will I ever be one. I like computers as a hobby as well as office docs. I join groups like this to learn. I don't always understand everything but, I do catch the general gist of topics, some terminology, some hardware ...
Topics like 'Eye Recognition' & 'Retina Recognition'. Until jimbo #14 — I only knew about logging in with eye (retina) and had no idea a computer can be controlled with eye blinks. That is awesome!

I learn more from these short & positive information posts than ...
 

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:thumb: :thumb: jimbo #10 and his other enlightening posts.

Nice to read posts which don't bash 8 continuously. Even when you think MS could've should've done something different, you still mention the good features & improvements available today from MS.
50 years ago, this lifestyle was still in museums, comic books & sci-fi movies. And still, so many squawk about the start button.
I'm not a tech person nor will I ever be one. I like computers as a hobby as well as office docs. I join groups like this to learn. I don't always understand everything but, I do catch the general gist of topics, some terminology, some hardware ...
Topics like 'Eye Recognition' & 'Retina Recognition'. Until jimbo #14 — I only knew about logging in with eye (retina) and had no idea a computer can be controlled with eye blinks. That is awesome!

I learn more from these short & positive information posts than ...
At least you're willing to learn which is more than I can say for a lot of people coming to this forum. I actually feel a bit embarrassed listening to all the rubbish being talked about with Windows 8, there's only a couple of steps and you can nearly avoid it altogether.

The talk about the Start Menu is nauseating to me as I never liked or very rarely used it from day one, why people would want to go through a cascading menu is beyond me, I always found it frustrating.
 

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I have Windows 8 on two laptops with touchscreen, and have no problems using them with the touchscreen, or only with mouse and keyboard. I work from the desktop, with Win 7 meny, or from Metro. Whatever works best. Using touchsrcreen as much as possible with the left hand, mouse with right hand and keyboard shortcuts with left hand, I can work much faster than in Win 7, and for my needs I can do everything I need and want to do in 8. When people find out what you can do with Win 8 and touchscreen, Apple might be in trouble.
Of course, there are things that could, and should, be better. Lets hope the usual service packs will take care of that.
I'm the same as you, I can work a lot faster in Windows 8 and I don't even have a touchscreen.
 

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Coke Robot

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As far as the touchscreen part of all this the author calls it correct when naming the article. MS didn't bother developing a new touchscreen capable gui for the desktop to begin with!

Uh... not sure if you're just trying to be funny or not(probably are). But yes, they did. Just plug in a touchscreen monitor :p.

It's simple fact! They took the RT tablet gui designed specifically for tablet and slapped it on 8 and simply because you can use a touchscreen monitor or click the oversized buttons won't make it an actual desktop gui but a shortcut for MS not to even spend any effort in that direction. Their main focus has been on Surface and RT to begin with taking a fast shortcut to put out something for OEMs to dump on new pcs.

You simply end up with an updated 7 core with the RT tablet gui slapped on fast as a cheap OS now that they have also stripped things out of the Windows OS to consider as well. People wanted a cheaper OS and they got it at a cost however!

While certain things at the core level were improved upon features were stripped out that had been incldued in previous versions now being charged for separately as well as making WMP useless wit the thinking there are too many media and dvd players out there so why have it included in Windows? "We'll cut some more corners!" Sound familiar?

The new Start screen and subbing for the Start orb or button are nothing while the Metro in your face to open each new program or a second IE window for example was hindsight as far as the desktop is concerned. On a tablet you only have one thing going at a time while on a desktop 8 is royal headache for any actual multitasker as far as productivity.

The Control Panel and other settings hidden in not known about tool bars and hidden right click menus only if you happen to right click in just the right spot notice also make it clumsy to work with. For the majority of users they are lost at first sight and then end up looking for a way back to 7 or Vista! For those of us who first saw the DP, CP, RP builds we either like it or hate it already having the first hand experience however. For some workarounds will help get through until the next MS success or flop shows up.
Ummmmmmmmmmmm......... No, they didn't Mr. Factoid.

They took Windows and developed it for ARM processors, that's RT. Windows 8 itself was developed for a new world for new PCs for new interaction/input methods.

And just oh my crap already, who cares if they're hidden! You find it once and you remember it forever unless you're a gold fish!

It's time to get over it.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
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