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SSD Technical ?

strollin

Old Guys Rule!
VIP Member
Pro User
In Windows 10 and 11, TRIM is automatic and you don't need to worry about it. As far as older OSes like 7 or 8.x, how often you need to run TRIM would depend on how much data you read/write. A SSD that's used heavily would need TRIM to be run more often than one that gets light use. I'm not sure if you can really know when the ultimate time to run it is.

Regarding your comment regarding mechanical drives and their reliability, I'd say todays's mechanical drives are far more reliable than any built in the past. I worked in IBM's hard drive business for 20 years ('77-'97) and we always said that the question isn't IF a drive will fail but WHEN.
 

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TechnoMage

Active Member
Power User
You can buy Cheaper, but you can't buy Better! In 40 years I've learned to buy only from brands that I know and trust to be the BEST.
I used to work with "The Memory Man" at Market Pro Compute shows, and if I didn't learn anything else, I learned that "Micron" makes the best memory.
And it wasn't til just lately that I learned that Crucial uses Micron memory chips, in their SSD's.

Beware of PNY, memory or SSD's. !!!! My very first SSD was a PNY, bought directly from them. In only three months it shot craps, and they flatly refused to do anything about it. In my frustration, I smashed it with a hammer and tossed it in the trash....where it belonged. But, because I had several backups, I didn't loose a thing.
My replacement SSD was/is a Samsung. It's still running in one of my PC's. Today, I have several Crucial SSD's and that's the only brand I'll ever buy from now on. When you have the best, you can forget the rest!

Cheers Maties!

TM :cool:
 

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    AMD 8 Core
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TechnoMage

Active Member
Power User
Addendum:
After 40+ years, of dealing with mechanical hard drives, I'm glad to finally see them being phased out. Because of the very nature of Solid State devices, if you keep them cool they should last forever. From a simple diode, to a CMOS computer chip, the biggest killer of electronics is HEAT.

For that very reason, AMD built into their cpu's a circuit to monitor the temperature, and throttle back the clock when a certain temperature was reached, to lessen the heating effect of the chip. I've seen one AMD cpu, in a customer's PC, that was so hot that it burned my finger, but even though running slow, it was still running. Once I replaced the failed cpu fan, the chip cooled and then came back up to full speed again. It was amazing, how that worked.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win-8.1/Pro/64
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    Home Made
    CPU
    AMD 8 Core
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte, Ultra Durable, GA-970A-DSP3
    Memory
    Crucial, 8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon HD 5450 (2 GB)
    Sound Card
    On Board
    Monitor(s) Displays
    24" LG
    Hard Drives
    Sandisk, SSD 120GB, 8TB Seagate backup drive
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    Antec Earthwatts, 650
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    Pac-Man Case
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    HP Professional
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    Using Classic Shell on Win-8.1 /pro/64

strollin

Old Guys Rule!
VIP Member
Pro User
I've only ever had 1 SSD fail on me and that one was actually DOA. I returned it and it was replaced lickety-split. I pretty much only buy Samsung SSDs.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W10 Pro (desktop), W10 (laptop), W10 Pro (tablet)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home built i7-8700K, Hp Envy x360 EVO Laptop, MS Surface Pro 7
    CPU
    3.7Ghz Core i7-8700K, 11th Gen Core i7-1165G7 4.7Ghz, 10th Gen Core™ i5-1035G4 1.1Ghz
    Motherboard
    ASUS TUF Z370-Pro Gaming, HP, MS
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    16G, 8G, 8G
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon RX580, Intel Iris X Graphics, Intel Iris Plus Graphics G4
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    ATI High Definition Audio (Built-in to mobo)
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dual Samsung U32J59 32 inch monitors, 13.3" display, 12.3" display
    Screen Resolution
    3840x2160 (Desktop), 1920x1080 (laptop), 2736x1824 Pro 7
    Hard Drives
    500GB ssd boot drive with 2 & 10TB Data (Desktop), 512GB ssd (laptop), 128GB SSD (tablet)
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    Corsair CX 750M
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    Antec 100
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    Coolermaster CM 212+
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    IBM Model M - used continuously since 1986
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    Microsoft IntelliMouse
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    Retired in 2015 after working in the tech industry for 41 years. First 10 years as a Technician, the rest as a programmer/software engineer. After 1 year of retirement, I was bored so went back to work as a Robotic Process Automation Consultant. Retired for 3rd (and final) time in 2019.
In Windows 10 and 11, TRIM is automatic and you don't need to worry about it. As far as older OSes like 7 or 8.x, how often you need to run TRIM would depend on how much data you read/write. A SSD that's used heavily would need TRIM to be run more often than one that gets light use. I'm not sure if you can really know when the ultimate time to run it is.

Regarding your comment regarding mechanical drives and their reliability, I'd say todays's mechanical drives are far more reliable than any built in the past. I worked in IBM's hard drive business for 20 years ('77-'97) and we always said that the question isn't IF a drive will fail but WHEN.
Good to know. Not really a big fan of 10 or 11 although I have both. I run TRIM via software on my Win 7 and 8 about once a year. This seems to work out fine for me but I was curious. Seemed like back in the old days of defragging I had to do this about once a month. I had one of the early SSDs brick on me about 10 years ago. I think the brand was called OCZ and I believe the company got bought out after numerous reports of these SSDs being defective. Come to think of it I'm pretty sure they used the PNY chips that TechnoMage already warned us about. It was the first SSD I ever owned so SSDs didn't really impress me back then. Later I had a Kingston 240 GB go defective on me in a RAID 10 array, but they replaced it with a considerably better one because they didn't make the old style anymore. So a plug for KINGSTON for standing behind their product. Not only did they replace the SSD but they also sent me a bunch of HYPER X T shirts free of charge! Bless those boys!

I concur what you say about it only being a matter of time before a mechanical hard drive fails and it stands to reason. That said, I have 4 12-year-old Velociraptors in a RAID array running strong without a hiccough or a click in one PC and another PC using another 4 (giving me 4TB but only 2 usable in RAID 10) that are running strong and proud. My personal experience as a domestic end user and PC builder over these past 22 years has led me to conclude that it still largely depends on the make and model when it comes to durability. There is a type of mechanical hard drive I will never buy EVER made by Seagate that I'm constantly replacing for clients and have had my own experience with them failing time and time again: The 500 GB Seagate 3.5" slim jobs. They are terrible! As for Western Digital, I try my utmost to avoid using any WD mechanical hard drives whenever possible with the EXCEPTION of those Velociraptors. There was a time when the old WD CAVIAR blacks were reliable, but anything new is garbage. I don't care if it's green, purple, brown, or blue. They just do NOT make 'em like they used to.

I repair PCs. People bring them to me and I see what sort of drives they are using. I have a pretty good idea which drives last a long time at the domestic end user level. I would say that as a rule Seagate does make more reliable mechanical hard drives than Western Digital but again, make and model figure into that equation. I'm not a big fan of SMR either and the hybrid drives also tend to develop hybrid issues so one can well imagine the deep sigh of relief I utter when I open a PC and find an SSD inside it instead of another old klunk drive. Yeah, mechanical drives still have a purpose but IMO that purpose is secondary and over time I look forward to seeing them completely phazed out.

*cheers* :thumbsup:
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1, Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows 10, Linux Mint and more
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    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD 3800X, Intel 6900K
    Motherboard
    X99 E-WS USB 3.1, CROSSHAIR HERO VIII
    Memory
    128 GB CORSAIR DOMINATOR, 32 GB TEAM GROUP T FORCE
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    NVIDIA 1070, SAPPHIRE RX 590 NITRO+
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    ONBOARD
    Monitor(s) Displays
    SAMSUNG 32"
    Screen Resolution
    4K
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    :::GRINS::: SERIOUSLY?
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    CORSAIR 1000 W PLATINUM
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    THERMAL TAKE / AZZA
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    NOCTUA / CM
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    LOGITECH PRODIGY
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    PC builder. Own a dozen PCs / built hundreds. All of us have a lot to learn. Some of us stand to learn more than others and those who think they know the most generally know the least. I'm here to learn and pass on what little I know.

TechnoMage

Active Member
Power User
"mechanical drives still have a purpose but IMO that purpose is secondary and over time I look forward to seeing them completely phased out."

And just like the 5.25" floppy disk, , , you know they will. Eh? Do you remember the really OLD 8" Floppies? I've used them, back in the past century.

I have a "stack" of old spinners....does Maxtor ring a bell? I use them for my experimenting with different OS's. If one blows up, it's really no loss. I'll just toss it in the trash and grab another one. I got them all for FREE, from scrapping out old PC's.
I just looked up "old defunct drives" on the web, and the list just goes on and on and on.
Remember, Alps, CMI, CDC, Fujitsu, HP, Hitachi, and Kalok? I do. I still have a Hitachi or two. The "Desk Star" got the nicname of "Death Star". They could die faster than a fish out of water. lol

I've seen the new SSD's that plug in to a socket on the motherboard advertised, but I've not actually seen one yet, and I don't have one of those motherboards, and may never.
I assume that the BPS transfer rate is phenomenal. Eh?

TM :cool:
 

My Computer

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  • OS
    Win-8.1/Pro/64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Made
    CPU
    AMD 8 Core
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte, Ultra Durable, GA-970A-DSP3
    Memory
    Crucial, 8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon HD 5450 (2 GB)
    Sound Card
    On Board
    Monitor(s) Displays
    24" LG
    Hard Drives
    Sandisk, SSD 120GB, 8TB Seagate backup drive
    PSU
    Antec Earthwatts, 650
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    Pac-Man Case
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    HP Professional
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    Using Classic Shell on Win-8.1 /pro/64
"mechanical drives still have a purpose but IMO that purpose is secondary and over time I look forward to seeing them completely phased out."

And just like the 5.25" floppy disk, , , you know they will. Eh? Do you remember the really OLD 8" Floppies? I've used them, back in the past century.

I have a "stack" of old spinners....does Maxtor ring a bell? I use them for my experimenting with different OS's. If one blows up, it's really no loss. I'll just toss it in the trash and grab another one. I got them all for FREE, from scrapping out old PC's.
I just looked up "old defunct drives" on the web, and the list just goes on and on and on.
Remember, Alps, CMI, CDC, Fujitsu, HP, Hitachi, and Kalok? I do. I still have a Hitachi or two. The "Desk Star" got the nicname of "Death Star". They could die faster than a fish out of water. lol

I've seen the new SSD's that plug in to a socket on the motherboard advertised, but I've not actually seen one yet, and I don't have one of those motherboards, and may never.
I assume that the BPS transfer rate is phenomenal. Eh?

TM :cool:
You just took me on a wild journey down memory lane. After I donated my top of the line Tandy to the geriatric society I have to confess that I was relieved to have disposed of those huge floppies, but to be fair it also used high density 3.5" floppies so I had the best of all worlds back then. I still have an old Hitachi UltraStar running as a secondary backup drive on one of my daughter's desktops. I isolated it in an external bay. It may not be a Death Star but I still don't trust it and that's why it serves as a secondary back up for her Linux o/s. As if to spite me the ruddy thing refuses to die. The Hitachi Death Star was a classic indeed. Yes, I remember all those drives you mentioned and good riddance to them all, but let me say that back in the day I was quite impressed with Maxtor. In fact I still have an old Maxtor IDE drive that was perfectly functional when I pulled it. Alas, 80 GB isn't worth the physical space it takes up in a desk top. Yeah :::sigh::: The wife keeps trying to get me to dispose of my collection of archaic hardware but she's from another time. She doesn't understand. I'm keeping it for posterity.

NVMe rocks. There's no disputing this. Data transfer rates are staggeringly fast, especially when you put them in RAID and gobble up all your lanes. I played with that a bit. Both of my main PCs use NVMe. You don't really notice much of a difference in speed when doing standard daily tasks or even gaming but you sure can see a huge difference when transfering large files. Still, it's annoying when you have to remove plates, heat sinks, and other hardware just to get to the confounded thing in the event that you want to remove it. I learned this when I had to change out my 500 GB Nvme for two 1TB Nvme. Standard SATA is so much easier.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1, Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows 10, Linux Mint and more
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD 3800X, Intel 6900K
    Motherboard
    X99 E-WS USB 3.1, CROSSHAIR HERO VIII
    Memory
    128 GB CORSAIR DOMINATOR, 32 GB TEAM GROUP T FORCE
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA 1070, SAPPHIRE RX 590 NITRO+
    Sound Card
    ONBOARD
    Monitor(s) Displays
    SAMSUNG 32"
    Screen Resolution
    4K
    Hard Drives
    :::GRINS::: SERIOUSLY?
    PSU
    CORSAIR 1000 W PLATINUM
    Case
    THERMAL TAKE / AZZA
    Cooling
    NOCTUA / CM
    Keyboard
    LOGITECH PRODIGY
    Mouse
    LOGITECH
    Internet Speed
    1 GBs
    Browser
    FIREFOX
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    KASPERSKY
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    PC builder. Own a dozen PCs / built hundreds. All of us have a lot to learn. Some of us stand to learn more than others and those who think they know the most generally know the least. I'm here to learn and pass on what little I know.

strollin

Old Guys Rule!
VIP Member
Pro User
One of my 1st jobs in the silicon valley was working at Shugart Associates on the SA-800 8-inch floppy drive. This was right about the time the company developed the 5.25-inch floppy drive. After he left that company, Al Shugart went on to start another company, Seagate.

I still use spinners for data storage in my computers since SSDs and Nvme drives are still on the small side. In my media server, I have 10TB and 14TB spinners to hold my collection of movies and TV shows.

I like how the price of solid state drives keeps dropping and the max size keeps going up. I'm sure in the future spinners will go the way of the floppy drive and the optical drive but in the meantime, spinners are still king for data storage.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W10 Pro (desktop), W10 (laptop), W10 Pro (tablet)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home built i7-8700K, Hp Envy x360 EVO Laptop, MS Surface Pro 7
    CPU
    3.7Ghz Core i7-8700K, 11th Gen Core i7-1165G7 4.7Ghz, 10th Gen Core™ i5-1035G4 1.1Ghz
    Motherboard
    ASUS TUF Z370-Pro Gaming, HP, MS
    Memory
    16G, 8G, 8G
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon RX580, Intel Iris X Graphics, Intel Iris Plus Graphics G4
    Sound Card
    ATI High Definition Audio (Built-in to mobo)
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dual Samsung U32J59 32 inch monitors, 13.3" display, 12.3" display
    Screen Resolution
    3840x2160 (Desktop), 1920x1080 (laptop), 2736x1824 Pro 7
    Hard Drives
    500GB ssd boot drive with 2 & 10TB Data (Desktop), 512GB ssd (laptop), 128GB SSD (tablet)
    PSU
    Corsair CX 750M
    Case
    Antec 100
    Cooling
    Coolermaster CM 212+
    Keyboard
    IBM Model M - used continuously since 1986
    Mouse
    Microsoft IntelliMouse
    Internet Speed
    665Mbps/15Mbps down/up
    Browser
    FireFox, MS Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender on all
    Other Info
    Retired in 2015 after working in the tech industry for 41 years. First 10 years as a Technician, the rest as a programmer/software engineer. After 1 year of retirement, I was bored so went back to work as a Robotic Process Automation Consultant. Retired for 3rd (and final) time in 2019.

TechnoMage

Active Member
Power User
Just curious, 'Strollin' , have you ever had one of the Hybrid Drives? I never did, but sure was tempted.

One big drawback to the old spinners, was the HEAT factor! For a long time, when spinners were all I had, I would attach a Two-Fan drive cooler to each one of my HD's.
But for best cooling the cooler had to be set up on 1/4" spacers, to allow for better air flow. I showed that little trick to a guy selling he coolers at the Market Pro Computer shows, and he was amazed.
CoolDrive-2.jpg
I am so glad to be rid of the spinners and the extra noise of the
Drive Coolers. My MAIN PC and all my Secondary & Backup PC's now run SSD's. Just like a BIG Flash Drive, they run Quiet and Cool.

I love the progress that has been made in Personal Computers, hardware wise, but I can't say as much for the OS's.

Happy 4th Everyone!
TM :cool:
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win-8.1/Pro/64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Made
    CPU
    AMD 8 Core
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte, Ultra Durable, GA-970A-DSP3
    Memory
    Crucial, 8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon HD 5450 (2 GB)
    Sound Card
    On Board
    Monitor(s) Displays
    24" LG
    Hard Drives
    Sandisk, SSD 120GB, 8TB Seagate backup drive
    PSU
    Antec Earthwatts, 650
    Case
    Pac-Man Case
    Keyboard
    HP Professional
    Mouse
    GearHead Wireless
    Internet Speed
    5 Meg
    Browser
    Firefox
    Other Info
    Using Classic Shell on Win-8.1 /pro/64

strollin

Old Guys Rule!
VIP Member
Pro User
Yes, heard of the hybrids but never owned one. Almost pulled the trigger on one several years ago but changed my mind. That was when SSDs were still pretty expensive.

I never felt the need to put any type of cooler on my spinners, just made sure they had adequate cooling/airflow within the case. I've never encountered a computer that had a cooler installed on one of it's drives.

All of my computers run an SSD as the boot drive but several have spinners for data storage.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W10 Pro (desktop), W10 (laptop), W10 Pro (tablet)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home built i7-8700K, Hp Envy x360 EVO Laptop, MS Surface Pro 7
    CPU
    3.7Ghz Core i7-8700K, 11th Gen Core i7-1165G7 4.7Ghz, 10th Gen Core™ i5-1035G4 1.1Ghz
    Motherboard
    ASUS TUF Z370-Pro Gaming, HP, MS
    Memory
    16G, 8G, 8G
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon RX580, Intel Iris X Graphics, Intel Iris Plus Graphics G4
    Sound Card
    ATI High Definition Audio (Built-in to mobo)
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dual Samsung U32J59 32 inch monitors, 13.3" display, 12.3" display
    Screen Resolution
    3840x2160 (Desktop), 1920x1080 (laptop), 2736x1824 Pro 7
    Hard Drives
    500GB ssd boot drive with 2 & 10TB Data (Desktop), 512GB ssd (laptop), 128GB SSD (tablet)
    PSU
    Corsair CX 750M
    Case
    Antec 100
    Cooling
    Coolermaster CM 212+
    Keyboard
    IBM Model M - used continuously since 1986
    Mouse
    Microsoft IntelliMouse
    Internet Speed
    665Mbps/15Mbps down/up
    Browser
    FireFox, MS Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender on all
    Other Info
    Retired in 2015 after working in the tech industry for 41 years. First 10 years as a Technician, the rest as a programmer/software engineer. After 1 year of retirement, I was bored so went back to work as a Robotic Process Automation Consultant. Retired for 3rd (and final) time in 2019.

TechnoMage

Active Member
Power User
I have 10GB of spinner storage in my Main PC. But the spinners are never plugged in unless I'm doing a backup or something. I like to keep the heat down as much as I can. I never saw any PC with a drive cooler, unless I installed it, and I did install several of them.

Some years back, I was computing one hot day, and my WD drive screamed at me and stopped dead. I reached in to take it out and it burned my fingers. Talk about a RED HOT momma. That may have been the event that prompted me to start using Drive Coolers. I never ran a WD drive again!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win-8.1/Pro/64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Made
    CPU
    AMD 8 Core
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte, Ultra Durable, GA-970A-DSP3
    Memory
    Crucial, 8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon HD 5450 (2 GB)
    Sound Card
    On Board
    Monitor(s) Displays
    24" LG
    Hard Drives
    Sandisk, SSD 120GB, 8TB Seagate backup drive
    PSU
    Antec Earthwatts, 650
    Case
    Pac-Man Case
    Keyboard
    HP Professional
    Mouse
    GearHead Wireless
    Internet Speed
    5 Meg
    Browser
    Firefox
    Other Info
    Using Classic Shell on Win-8.1 /pro/64
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