Solved ssd lesson learned

Goldy

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I just installed an intel 530 ssd 240 gig. intel data migration tool worked great in clone mode.
c drive size 82 gigs win 8.1 (I keep all my data on another drive and cleared all my temp files).
an hour later I plugged it in as C: and it works great.
One big mistake I made was not disabling defrag.
it locked up my computer. had to reboot and disabled it in the task scheduler and defrag settings.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Gateway dx 4370g
    CPU
    2.20 gigahertz AMD A6-3620 APU
    Motherboard
    Acer DAA75L
    Memory
    10 gigs
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon HD 6530D
    Browser
    internet explorer 10 and Chrome
    Antivirus
    Norton
Usually, when setting it up from scatch, Windows detects the SSD and disables defrag.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 32-Bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home made
    CPU
    Intel Core i5 4670
    Motherboard
    AsRock z87m Pro4
    Memory
    4 GB 1600 12800U
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Graphics 4600
    Sound Card
    HD Audio
    Hard Drives
    SSD Samsung 840 Pro 128 GB
    2 TB WD Green
    PSU
    Cooler Master Silent Pro MII 420 W
    Case
    Cooler Master Silencio 650 Pure
    Cooling
    Semi passive: Thermalright Macho HR-02 Rev.A, Scythe Gentle Typhoon 800 rpm
Hi there

Perhaps a little explanation of why it's totally UNNECESSARY to defrag an SSD.

A lot of people don't understand what defrag is - so a quick 101 explanation (technical geeks - might not be 100% TECHNICALLY accurate but it's 100% CONCEPTUALLY OK so people can get an understanding of what it is).

A normal Hard Disk (not an SSD) is essentially divided into physical areas - could be called sectors or heads / track numbers but if you have a HDD with several heads and tracks these are converted (internally) also to sector numbers.

The OS creates a FILE SYSTEM which for Windows is the NTFS file system (OK FAT32 etc but the principle is the same). What this does is to allocate some of the disk sectors as space for Directories (or folders). Now when you create a folder the details of how big it is, how many individual data records it has etc are stored in this directory space.

So now you want to access a record in directory X -- say you have a music track you want to play from a folder called album X.

The Hard disk has to move the reading arm first to the physical sector where the list of Directories are and read the data of the directory you want to access, then it needs to move the arm again to the details of the particular file you want to read and finally it has to move the arm again to the data position.

To start with all the areas are in continuous chunks but as the disk gets filled or the file size gets bigger the OS has to use more sectors to describe the file, and its location and data. These means considerably more disk arm movements and read accesses.

The physical movement of the HDD mechanism is what takes up most of the access time - and that is what defrag does = to re-arrange all the physical sectors of files that it can so that they are mainly continuous reducing the movement time (or what's known as SEEK time).

With an SSD there's no PHYSICAL movement so all the file details are essentially stored in an index table (or array if you are a programmer). Access times can be almost zero - especially with decent search algorithms (binary sort etc etc).

Read times for an SSD are so fast that any amount of re-organisation is meaningless - and of course there is no physical movement (the longest part of HDD access).

So Defrag not only is UNNECESSARY on an SSD - it's ILLOGICAL to do it anyway and it probably would result in WORSE performance for a while during the time the access algorithms were being re-optimized.

There's always reasonably sensible explanations for doing things with pieces of equipment - go back to the basics and you'll understand and enjoy using it a lot more.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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System One

  • OS
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Monitor(s) Displays
    1 X LG 40 inch TV
    Hard Drives
    SSD's * 3 (Samsung 840 series) 250 GB
    2 X 3 TB sata
    5 X 1 TB sata
    Internet Speed
    0.12 GB/s (120Mb/s)
I just installed an intel 530 ssd 240 gig. intel data migration tool worked great in clone mode.
c drive size 82 gigs win 8.1 (I keep all my data on another drive and cleared all my temp files).
an hour later I plugged it in as C: and it works great.
One big mistake I made was not disabling defrag.
it locked up my computer. had to reboot and disabled it in the task scheduler and defrag settings.
When cloning you get what you had before, no less, no more so it stayed same as on HDD. Did you change SATA from IDE to AHCI, it's important for proper operation of SSD ?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home made
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen7 2700x
    Motherboard
    Asus Prime x470 Pro
    Memory
    16GB Kingston 3600
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus strix 570 OC 4gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 960 evo 250GB
    Silicon Power V70 240GB SSD
    WD 1 TB Blue
    WD 2 TB Blue
    Bunch of backup HDDs.
    PSU
    Sharkoon, Silent Storm 660W
    Case
    Raidmax
    Cooling
    CCM Nepton 140xl
    Internet Speed
    40/2 Mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    WD
In windows 8, Defrag detects your SSD and will not run a defrag, but it will execute a TRIM command, which optimizes your SSD's garbage collection (SSD's don't fully delete things until a TRIM operation occurs).

However, apparently there is a bug that can cause Windows to try to defrag as well as TRIM. You can read more about this here:

Why Windows 8 and 8.1 defragment your SSD and how you can avoid this ? ????? ???????

Perhaps a little explanation of why it's totally UNNECESSARY to defrag an SSD.
[...]
So Defrag not only is UNNECESSARY on an SSD - it's ILLOGICAL to do it anyway and it probably would result in WORSE performance for a while during the time the access algorithms were being re-optimized.

While it's true that you don't want to Defrag an SSD, you do use the Defrag tool in Windows to perform an ESSENTIAL maintenance function on SSD drives. So you do run a defrag on an SSD (as in running the Defrag tool), it's just doing a TRIM operation.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    CPU
    Intel i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Z77X-UD4 TH
    Memory
    16GB DDR3 1600
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVidia GTX 650
    Sound Card
    Onboard Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Auria 27" IPS + 2x Samsung 23"
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440 + 2x 2048x1152
    Hard Drives
    Corsair m4 256GB, 2 WD 2TB drives
    Case
    Antec SOLO II
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
    Mouse
    Logitech MX
As long as AHCI and Trim are enabled (they go hand in hand) there's nothing that needs to be done manually.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home made
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen7 2700x
    Motherboard
    Asus Prime x470 Pro
    Memory
    16GB Kingston 3600
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus strix 570 OC 4gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 960 evo 250GB
    Silicon Power V70 240GB SSD
    WD 1 TB Blue
    WD 2 TB Blue
    Bunch of backup HDDs.
    PSU
    Sharkoon, Silent Storm 660W
    Case
    Raidmax
    Cooling
    CCM Nepton 140xl
    Internet Speed
    40/2 Mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    WD

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win 8.1 Update x64
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion 15
    CPU
    Haswell Core i5 4200U
    Memory
    8GB Dual-Channel DDR3L @1600
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel HD 4400 Integrated; 2GB Dedicated NVIDIA GT 740M
    Hard Drives
    500GB Samsung 840 EVO Internal SSD ;
    2TB WD MyPassport Ultra EHDD ;
    1TB TOSHIBA HDD
    Cooling
    Deepcool X6
    Mouse
    Logitech B175 Wireless Mouse
    Internet Speed
    10 Mbps
    Browser
    Opera v25.0
    Antivirus
    KIS 2014
    Other Info
    Microsoft Wired Xbox 360 Controller
Hi there

A lot of people don't understand what defrag is - so a quick 101 explanation (technical geeks - might not be 100% TECHNICALLY accurate but it's 100% CONCEPTUALLY OK so people can get an understanding of what it is).

jimbo

In a worse case scenario you may be right but the computer is smart enough to but file and directory data close together and most usually have lots of buffer memory so when it reads stuff in it keeps it in the buffer until it is needed for something else. Chance is the file data is in the buffer when it reads the directory so just needs to go to the actual file and even some of that may be in the buffer.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    WIN8.1/Server 2012 R2/Win 7 Ultimate
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-4960X Extreme 3.6 GHz, Socket 2011, Ivy Bridge-E
    Motherboard
    Asus P9X79 Deluxe
    Memory
    32GB Corsair Dominator Platinum CMD16GX3M2A1866C
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte GV-N78TOC-3GD, GeForce GTX 780 Ti
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP LP2475w
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1200
    Hard Drives
    2x240GB Sandisk SSD, 2x3TB Segate 7200RPM
    PSU
    1500w Spider
    Case
    CoolerMaster HAF X
    Cooling
    Corsair Hydro Series H105
Thanks, I re-established task scheduler as needed in the article and unchecked c in defrag and added the new trim task in TS. seems to be working fine now. the SSD is ahci. but where do you adjust trim?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Gateway dx 4370g
    CPU
    2.20 gigahertz AMD A6-3620 APU
    Motherboard
    Acer DAA75L
    Memory
    10 gigs
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon HD 6530D
    Browser
    internet explorer 10 and Chrome
    Antivirus
    Norton
Thanks, I re-established task scheduler as needed in the article and unchecked c in defrag and added the new trim task in TS. seems to be working fine now. the SSD is ahci. but where do you adjust trim?
You don't have to adjust the Trim just make sure it's on. Windows and FW in SSD will use it when necessary even if it's not in maintenance schedule.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home made
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen7 2700x
    Motherboard
    Asus Prime x470 Pro
    Memory
    16GB Kingston 3600
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus strix 570 OC 4gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 960 evo 250GB
    Silicon Power V70 240GB SSD
    WD 1 TB Blue
    WD 2 TB Blue
    Bunch of backup HDDs.
    PSU
    Sharkoon, Silent Storm 660W
    Case
    Raidmax
    Cooling
    CCM Nepton 140xl
    Internet Speed
    40/2 Mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    WD
thanks again. used the fsutil command just make sure trim was on

C:\WINDOWS\system32>fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify
DisableDeleteNotify = 0

1 would be off and 0 is on
so it seems to be okay.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Gateway dx 4370g
    CPU
    2.20 gigahertz AMD A6-3620 APU
    Motherboard
    Acer DAA75L
    Memory
    10 gigs
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon HD 6530D
    Browser
    internet explorer 10 and Chrome
    Antivirus
    Norton
thanks again. used the fsutil command just make sure trim was on

C:\WINDOWS\system32>fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify
DisableDeleteNotify = 0

1 would be off and 0 is on
so it seems to be okay.
You're all set than.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home made
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen7 2700x
    Motherboard
    Asus Prime x470 Pro
    Memory
    16GB Kingston 3600
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus strix 570 OC 4gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 960 evo 250GB
    Silicon Power V70 240GB SSD
    WD 1 TB Blue
    WD 2 TB Blue
    Bunch of backup HDDs.
    PSU
    Sharkoon, Silent Storm 660W
    Case
    Raidmax
    Cooling
    CCM Nepton 140xl
    Internet Speed
    40/2 Mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    WD
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