Recommend a Win 8 tablet/laptop hybrid for business/web design?

[ship69]

Hi

I am looking for a decent new laptop for business/web design.

I want something that will run full Windows 8 (although to be honest for the first year or so I will probably only use Windows 7 on it until the worst bugs have been fixed!)

I need:
- Form: Latop/tablet hybrid
- Screen Resolution: 1080p (1920 × 1080) (although perhaps 1600pixels wide would do)
- Touch: Pressure sensitive (ideally Wacom, ideally stylus built in)
- Screen: 12.5"+
- RAM: 8GB
- SSD: 256GB
- Processor: Intel (presumably)
- Weight: 1.5Kg (3.3lbs)
- Battery: 6+ hours
- Resume: instant on
- Must run full Win 8 (and Win 7)
Budget: GBP 1200 (absolute max)

RATIONALE
I had my previous laptop for 6 years, and I a professional tool to replace it and not leave me still wanting/needing an iPad/tablet.
1. It will need to run all my windows applications including full msOffice Suite (incl Excel macros etc), Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Xara Designer Pro etc
2. I want to use finger touch AND as a stylus sensitive device so that I can scribble notes (e.g. during a conference).
3. Personally I find that I think more clearly at higher resolutions and will be wearing reading spectacles, so the higher the resolution the better (within reason).
4. Battery must survive at least 6-8 hours so that I can work anywhere.
5. It needs to be convenient and pretty light to carry (1.5kg max)
6. I need decent connections including Ethernet.
7. (Optional: 1080p would be great for watching video in HD...)
8. (Optional: I love the red nipple/pointing stick on my Lenovo)

CD/DVD not necessary.

- Any recommendations? Does such a device actually exist yet?(!)

J


P.S. I was thinking about the Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 13 hybrid, but the screen is rather low resolution (only 1,600x900)

 

[Mystere]

Why would you want pressure sensitive? Resistive touch screen is very low resolution and unreliable.

You may be interested in some of the new Surface Pro tablets coming out later this year, they include a Wacom system with a stylus, but are capacitive touch sensitive. The style uses electromagnetic technology versus the capacitive or resistive technologies.

Microsoft Surface Supports Digital Ink/Stylus - YouTube

 

[ship69]

Why would you want pressure sensitive? Resistive touch screen is very low resolution and unreliable

Confused. To be honest I dont know which is which between resistive and capacitive touch. Which does iPad use? And which does Wacom use?

All I know is that I have a Wacom Intous pad that I write on with a stylus, that plugs into my old PC and that it works very well. And I understand that touch sensitive bad on other devices do not. The Wacom is exceedingly accurate too.

My desire for the "pressure sensitive" thing is mainly to make sure that I can personally configure the device to works *really* well for my own (personal) requirements. Also I want to be able to sketch and write notes using a stylus. And I don't want the device to get confused by my finger touching the device rather than the stylus (if and when I am using a stylus).

Furthermore although I admit that I dont use it very often, sometimes I use the Wacom stylus on my PC to do cool stuff in Photoshop, such as variable line weight (depending on pressure - or angle come to that)

To sum up, all I really know is that I want Wacom technology (or think I do) because it's the best!

- What subtleties am I missing?

J

 

[Coke Robot]

Hello there!

The ipad uses capacitive touch. Resistive touch screens, you will know the difference as you have to press on them to make things work. Capacitive touchscreens work by simply tapping something versus and something you need more pressing. Also, resistive touch screens generally don't have glass screens. That is usually the dead give away.

For a Windows 8 tablet PC recommendation, my first would be the Microsoft Surface Pro that will be released in January. It doesn't have all the specs you want, as it has a 128 gig SSD, 4 gigs of RAM, and a 10.6 inch screen. The Surface Pro will understand if you're using the stylus to write or draw as it prevents screw-ups that would be caused with your hand on the screen. My second recommendation would be the Lenevo Yoga laptop hybrid. I've played with this one personally, very nice! It's about a 13 inch screen, an i5 processor, 4 gigs of RAM, and a 128 gig SSD. This one doesn't have the screw-up preventing feature like the Surface as far as I know. The Surface Pro might cost maybe 800-1,000 dollars US. The Lenevo Yoga is also 1,000 dollars US.

 

[ship69]

==> The Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 13 look great up to a point...
On the upside: The weight is (just!) reasonable (starting at 1.5Kg), the SSD can go up to 256GB, screensize also reasonable at 13.3 inch, I believe the RAM can go up to 8 GB, and I like the idea of using it in the various different modes.
BUT:
1. the screen is rather low resolution (only 1,600x900).
2. there is no stylus (certainly not built in)
3. It doesnt have a red rubber nipple/stick thing to control the mouse, which is irritating
4. There is no mouse right-click button (although I am assuming there must be some workaround!)
5. Having the keypad on the ground and/or being crushed by my fingers when in Tablet mode is slightly unsatisfactory.

So I also looked at the Lenovo Thinkpad Twist
BUT:
1. Screen resolution is absolutely terrible 1366 x 768
2. Also SSD only goes up to 128GB
3. The spining hinge has GOT to wear out an wobble after a couple of years, no?

But WTF is going on with resolution? (!!) How the heck come all the real tablets are on about double that resolution per inch.
For gawd's sakes the iPad has a resolution of 264 pixels per inch i.e. 2048x1536, i.e. 3,145,728 pixels compared to the Twist with it's 1,049,088 pixels. And worse, the iPad screen is 9.7" compared to the Twist's 12.5"

So an iPAD has more than THREE times as many pixel than a Twist... on a screen that is 22% smaller.

No I refuse to buy an Apple iPad for idealogical reasons. I want to see and own my own data thank you. (And I want to be able to add extra memory and also replace the battery when that eventually fails too thank you)

But what's WRONG with Lenovo - what are they *thinking* - are they asleep or what?
Most of the other Laptop manufacturers arent doing much better either. But Tablet manufacturers know that nowadays 1080p is the minimum resolution. What am I missing?

J

 

[Coke Robot]

The retina display is kind of just a marketing thing, it's not a necessity. Meaning, because it's about a "quad HD" resolution and on a very small screen than what it should be, it's just pixel dense. That resolution doesn't really mean much as a quad HD display would be pretty huge. After a certain point, the human eye can't really tell a noticeable difference between a retina display screen and a 1,366 x 768. A resolution of 1,600 x 900 on Windows 8 is just fine. With a screen of 13 inches, it also becomes slightly more pixel dense as the screen should be larger than that. Technically, the minimum resolution now with Windows 8 is 1,366 x 768 from the 1028 x whatever it was before. That's so metro app snap can work. apple has a tendency over flaunting features that when you look at realistically, it's not totally needed. It's kind of like having two high end graphics cards to run games at 100+ FPS. Sounds nice, but when you realize the human eye can process about 24 FPS second, it becomes less needed. Heck, even consoles run at 30 FPS...

The stylus however, you can buy a real decent Wacom stylus with it. I'd go that route as you can get a better stylus than what might come onboard with some tablets. Wacom even makes some with interchangeable nibs too.

The red nipple you're talking about is I'm guessing something from the ThinkPad. That's a feature that I've personally seen ONLY on Lenovo ThinkPads. Unfortunately, their ThinkPad Tablet 2 is a pretty lower end device.

And I do believe there is a right click on the touch pad, I don't think there wasn't one as that's pretty standard. And actually, when you have it in tablet mode, the keyboard doesn't get crushed or anything. Unless if you're gripping it, that's mostly when you feel the keys. The keyboard is FLUSH with the palm rest and the rest of the base. You also can have it as a propped up tablet with the keyboard as your base, which I think would be really nice for stylus input and touch.

Many options out there, there is!

 

[area 66]

I need:
- Form: Latop/tablet hybrid
- Screen Resolution: 1080p (1920 × 1080) (although perhaps 1600pixels wide would do)
- Touch: Pressure sensitive (ideally Wacom, ideally stylus built in)
- Screen: 12.5"+
- RAM: 8GB
- SSD: 256GB
- Processor: Intel (presumably)
- Weight: 1.5Kg (3.3lbs)
- Battery: 6+ hours
- Resume: instant on
- Must run full Win 8 (and Win 7)
Budget: GBP 1200 (absolute max)

XPS 12 Convertible 12" Touch Ultrabook Details | Dell


.

 

[ship69]

@CokeRobot - Sorry I disagree with you 100 percent. I just dont buy this stuff about beyond what the human eye can see.
No screens have get got to 300ppi whereas in the print world everyone knows that 300DPI isnt enough. The human eye CAN distinguish the different between 300DPI and 600DPI. In fact for perfection high end printers aim for 1200DPI!
ALSO I shall be wearing a good pair of reading glasses, so will I see individual pixels and jaggies etc on a small screen even at iPAD 'Retina' (at 264PPI) - you betcha! And so even on your 1080p 10" or 13" screens I shall be wanting better - And as for 1,366 x 768, today that feels positively stone-aged.

Conclusion
Other things being equal, for me and anyone else with decent eye-sight, better resolution most definitely IS better. And will be for the foreseeable future.

 

[ship69]

Yes the XPS 12 from Dell looks pretty tempting.

It's probably the first hybrid I've found that meets my spec.

When I get time, I'll have a proper look at it, but for now my initial thoughts are:

On the down-side:
- No SD card slot
- Battery life not brilliant
- Touchpad is said to by flaky in some reviews (*)
- I'd like to physically get one in my hands before I buy (not possible with Dells??)
- The swivelling hinge looks like it might wear out after 2 or 3 years ??
- Weight is a bit borderline (just OVER my target of 1.5Kg)
- Screen fractionally small (12.5" not 13"+)
- Rather limited ports (e.g. no ports at the rear AT ALL)
- Critical review has been a bit look warm. (mostly 4 or 4.5 stars)
- Still pretty expensive for the high end model that I would want.
- Sorry but I remain suspicious of Dell's build quality and their levels of customer support
- It's also slightly ugly me thinks - although I might get used to it I guess.
- I shall miss my Lenovo nipple (which I use ALL the time on my current laptop)
- Also I quite like having a separate light and left click physical button near the keyboard like my current Lenovo has.
(*) Dell XPS 12 review: with the launch of Windows 8, 'convertible' takes on a new meaning -- Engadget

But, yes I am moderately tempted just the same.
For now I shall hold fire to see if prices come down and how it fares in other reviews...

J

 

[ProtoType]

Have you looked into the slate 7?

http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/tablet-pcs/XE700T1A-A03US-specs

Expectations are a little off, but it's the most spectacular one so far in my opinion.

 

[R0bR]

ASUS released a family of Windows 8 devices, perhaps the VivoBook will fit your needs and I believe they are aggressively priced as well with i3,i5 and i7 variants.

ASUS makes Touch available for everyone.

Some listed on Amazon:
Amazon.com

 

[Coke Robot]

Rumor has it that the Surface Pro might start at 800 dollars for the base model.....

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
That's the tablet I'd wait for if you are thinking Business use. The USB3 connection is ideal (you can use a USB3 Hub for more USB3 connections) and with a micro SD card inside also good for a decent amount of removable local storage too.

The USB3 and HDMI out (good for external monitor) seems to make this tablet a "No Brainer" for your requirements -- also runs windows 8 so your apps will all work on it.

This IMO is the perfect "Ipad Killer".

Of course the price has to be right -- too expensive just get an Ultrabook which rather defeats the object.

I think so long as the price is OK this tablet will be AWESOME compared with anything out there now --and perfectly fit for purpose too.

I've tested the much more limited RT version -- works fine connecting to an office VPN -- no probs with applications etc and external monitor -- but you can't load native windows apps on the RT tablet.

Wait for the Pro. It should appear in January 2013.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[ship69]

Have you looked into the slate 7?

Specs - Tablet PCs XE700T1A | Samsung Tablet PCs

Expectations are a little off, but it's the most spectacular one so far in my opinion.

Resolution: "1366 x 768 HD LED backlit" ==> absolutely no way.
Likewise the Asus Vivobook.

WTF?
Why should us Windows Users settle for a THIRD the resolution of an Apple iPad (2048-by-1536)...
And a QUARTER the resolution of a Google Nexus 10 (2560x1600) ?

And please dont give me any BS about the human eye not being able to see the difference. Even the mighty Nexus is only 300 PPI but the human eye can easily see the difference between 300 and 600 DPI which is why publishers often print at 600 or even 1200 DPI.

J

J

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there


Once you start thinking about 11.2 inches and bigger sizes the whole point of a tablet seems to me to be lost as we are getting into Laptop sizes here. I'd still go for the Ms PRO -- 10 inches and USB3 --really makes a difference.

Remember also not all pixels are created equal -- you can trawl through enough photography sites to show that a DLSR 12 MP camera will EASILY out perform in any way you care to name it a mobile phone or point and shoot small camera with 16 MP.

Printing paper quality , quality of post processing (Photoshop or whatever) and the quality of the printer are also factors in producing quality prints too.

Remember also large posters are printed out at much less resolution but look OK because they are viewed at from quite a distance away too -- these types of posters aren't intended to be viewed with your nose just touching the print.

Having SEEN and used the RT tablet I'd say the screen looks far far better than a 15 inch Sony Vaio laptop with the same size resolution -- and --- I've been a photographer for YEARS using high end pro stuff and done my share of pixel peeping ad nauseam and I'd STILL say that the screen resolution doesn't look bad even compared with an IPAD.

Of course rendering images larger - you then will see the obvious limitation -- but we don't know what the graphic output of the PRO tablet will deliver to a large monitor.

A lot of laptops - even with 15 inch screens still have a Native screen resolution of 1366 X 768 such as a Sony VAIO and these screens don't look at all horrible either.

The Sony Laptop delivers higher resolution than the built in native screen resolution of 1366 X 768 via an HDMI output so there's no reason to suppose the PRO model will not be able to deliver more than adequate resolution to a large external monitor either..

For normal use on a 10 inch screen HD TV quality output (1920 X 1080) is more than enough -- even on a 50 inch TV monitor it's fine --remember also you are sitting at least 2 metres away from the monitor (or you should be).

The only advantage of the Ipad's resolution is perhaps so you can get REALLY TINY fonts etc on it -- but that's hard to read anyway.

The other HORROR I have with Ipads is that they are almost illegible in bright sunlight --not so with the MS RT (and the PRO will be better I suspect).


Incidentally depending on the nature of the application one can "Up-REZ" an image -- photoshop for example has some excellent built in algorathms such a Bi-Polar etc. These can produce really fine quality prints too from quite ordinary resolution images (obviously you must have ENOUGH pixels for the algorithm to be able to privde accurate guesses for the missing pixels) so the actual Native screen resolution isn't necessarily the limiting factor that it *Could be*.


Cheers
jimbo

 

[area 66]

Rumor has it that the Surface Pro might start at 800 dollars for the base model.....

too expensive, I prefer throw $ 1200 on a XPS 13 Dell notebook, or a Mac air, $ 400 more but at least I can do serious work with it.

 

[ship69]

I think @Jimbo and I will need to agree to disagree. I will not settle for less that HD resolution. But he's absolutely right about one thing it's not JUST about resolution. There are a vast number of subtleties when it comes to showing photos well: Colour balance, contrast, ability to show details in shadows and highlights, speed of response, accuracy of colour on top of the obvious things like pixel brightness. But no, I still want a reasonable resolution. For one thing, I shall be wearing a good pair of reading glasses and every pixel will be sharply in focus!

 

[ship69]

How's about the Asus Taichi?
The 13" version is only 1.55Kg. Apart from being a bit bonkers carrying around 2 screens, the main problem for me is that the inner screen isnt touch sensitive. On the up side, I think it has a built in stylus - something which will be important to me (yes, even though the mighty Steve Jobs was passionately against the stylus).

J

 

[area 66]

Asus, I will notch it with a 10 feet poles, go on Asus ROG forum read the horrors story with RMA. I change the front cover of a customer's Dell laptop last week because the touch pad was not working, I order the part from Dell and receive it 2 days after , try to order a part from Asus

 

[dirtyvu]

jimbo, I disagree with a lot of your points.

I've played with touchscreen devices for a long time. I still have my HP TX2000 TabletPC which has a 12.1" screen. It is not too big for touch as you say.

And if the price is in the range of an ultrabook, you'd rather get the ultrabook? That may be the case for you. But for me, I wouldn't say that at all. In fact, the ultrabook definitely would have to be cheaper than a touch device for me to even consider an ultrabook. I like sleek slender laptops. But I don't sacrifice performance for small. I will sacrifice small for touch.

I still have a 17" laptop, and would still take a high powered 17" laptop over a low power sleek ultrabook. I'd take a touchscreen laptop over an ultrabook in nearly every situation.