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old games are very slow

Vince800

New Member
I've raised this issue on the Technet Forums.

Windows 8/8.1 DirectDraw Emulation Issues

This issue is definitely being obscured by less technical and more cosmetic issues in Windows 8 which users have been reporting.

Does anyone know of perhaps a more direct way to report bugs to Microsoft?

It would be great if some attention can be brought to the DirectDraw issue so it can be fixed.
 

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madmax1100

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Really happy to see you post that on tech forum.
The problem while existing with Directx8 , 8.1 emulation, I have also see it with directx9 emulation on windows8 as well.

The first responses I predict you will receive on that forum will be how to use the compatibiliy features , and all the other basics that one needs to do when running an older game.

Then ignoring your comments on Windows7 and Vista.

Like you know how to make it work on Winodows7, but obviously you are an idiot now that you are using windows8 :p

Seriously, I would be pleasantly surprised to see an answer tackle the issue, even to say.

Yeah, You're right, it doesn't work, but we aren't doing anything about it. At least that is clear.

But I certainly would like to see it fixed. Especially with another directx release coming down the pipes.

The irony to me is that companies were told to use directx as it would be the future and progress and backwards compatiblle, vs opengl which would not be guarranteed to be compatible or even work in the future. Yet here we are over a decade plus later and now open gl seems to be more compatible with Windows 8 then Microsofts own directx.
 

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Vince800

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Seem to have got a standard reply as predicted so far. They did state that they would give the information to the dev team and I've asked for some clarification from them. Not sure if they'll reply to the information but it should be interesting.
 

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nonono

Banned
Yep, thats one more reason to keep windows xp installed. It is very good for old/older games, plus its even better for gaming if you have not the best hardware, because all that aero/metro sh|t just cuts gaming performance in HALF !!!... -> i tested that myself. Well, at least keeping dual boot with xp & (7 || 8) is the best decision, that you currently could do in your life.
 

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popeye

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I had to setup XP in VMware Player to get my old Still Life to run. It refuses to play past intro no matter what I've tried on 8.1. Hoping someone in the future can come up with and XP emulator similar to DosBox if M$ will allow it. Fat chance I suppose.
 

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nonono

Banned
Yeah, its like 100% that it will not happen, but still, ms is the best of the worst - apple did cut old games support long time ago, while ms still lets 'em run on windows, even if they run like crap, but still run.
 

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CountMike

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Widows compatibility with older systems is actually pretty good considering how many changes have been made thru time. Insisting on compatibility with really old stuff would just make already large OS even larger and changes have to be made gradually and that slows down development. Just like all the stuff in life, sometimes comes the time to let go of old things in favor of new ones.
 

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avada

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Widows compatibility with older systems is actually pretty good considering how many changes have been made thru time. Insisting on compatibility with really old stuff would just make already large OS even larger and changes have to be made gradually and that slows down development. Just like all the stuff in life, sometimes comes the time to let go of old things in favor of new ones.

Bullshit. There's a lot of garbage in windows. But a compatibility layer for old DX, directdraw versions would in the tens of megabytes.
Just think about it. Emulating a whole PS2 fits in tens of megabytes and these are just measly graphics API's. Even some hobbyists (partially) implemented directdraw for windows 7 when they had issues... The wine project had a near complete emulation...
 

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Vince800

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This isn't a compatibility issue per se. It's not going to add to anything by fixing this as the compatibility is already there.

It's a bug in the DirectX Emulation which requires fixing. The compatibility is already there, just broken. This method for DirectX has been in place since Vista.

I suspect as stated earlier that these issues like this are being obscured by less technical and more cosmetic issues being repeated over and over again to Microsoft via feedback.

It really does seem as if something fixable has been overlooked when the DX libraries were modified in Windows 8.
 

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CountMike

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Widows compatibility with older systems is actually pretty good considering how many changes have been made thru time. Insisting on compatibility with really old stuff would just make already large OS even larger and changes have to be made gradually and that slows down development. Just like all the stuff in life, sometimes comes the time to let go of old things in favor of new ones.

Bullshit. There's a lot of garbage in windows. But a compatibility layer for old DX, directdraw versions would in the tens of megabytes.
Just think about it. Emulating a whole PS2 fits in tens of megabytes and these are just measly graphics API's. Even some hobbyists (partially) implemented directdraw for windows 7 when they had issues... The wine project had a near complete emulation...
That's just what I said, already too much garbage in Windows to ad some more by emulating or making it compatible for few people to play some pre historic games. Software makers should keep up with new OSes, why would everybody suffer with overburdened HW and OS. My video card and monitor can't even display such low resolutions to play very old games. Ho wants them, let them keep old computers just for such occasions. Let rest of us have a modern, lean system to work on. When ever you try to please everyone you end up not pleasing anybody.
 

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CountMike

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Widows compatibility with older systems is actually pretty good considering how many changes have been made thru time. Insisting on compatibility with really old stuff would just make already large OS even larger and changes have to be made gradually and that slows down development. Just like all the stuff in life, sometimes comes the time to let go of old things in favor of new ones.

Bullshit. There's a lot of garbage in windows. But a compatibility layer for old DX, directdraw versions would in the tens of megabytes.
Just think about it. Emulating a whole PS2 fits in tens of megabytes and these are just measly graphics API's. Even some hobbyists (partially) implemented directdraw for windows 7 when they had issues... The wine project had a near complete emulation...
That's just what I said, already too much garbage in Windows to ad some more by emulating or making it compatible for few people to play some pre historic games. Software makers should keep up with new OSes, why would everybody suffer with overburdened HW and OS. My video card and monitor can't even display such low resolutions to play very old games. Ho wants them, let them keep old computers just for such occasions. Let rest of us have a modern, lean system to work on. When ever you try to please everyone you end up not pleasing anybody.
 

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madmax1100

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This isn't a compatibility issue per se. It's not going to add to anything by fixing this as the compatibility is already there.

It's a bug in the DirectX Emulation which requires fixing. The compatibility is already there, just broken. This method for DirectX has been in place since Vista.

I suspect as stated earlier that these issues like this are being obscured by less technical and more cosmetic issues being repeated over and over again to Microsoft via feedback.

It really does seem as if something fixable has been overlooked when the DX libraries were modified in Windows 8.

thank you for saying this, so I didn't have.

to reinforce it, so people aren't confused by the myth of older software. The compatibility with older versions of Directx IS SUPPORTED, Backwards Compatible, Just like it is on Windows7 and Vista, thus Directx newest version is backwards compatible with older versions.

The Problem on Windows 8 is that somewhere , they botched it up, which is why the games run, but at an inplayable framerate, the previous releases of Directx.

When I see comments like, "its time to move on", when in fact Microsofts directx IS backwards compatible and is ALREADY supported in this release, is really saying, Yes, your NEW software is broken you should just ignore the problem.

Would someone have made taht comment regarding the MOUSE GLITCH in Windows8 that needed to be corrected? Or in fact any other flaw in WIndows8?

Its a flaw inthe software, not a progression in development that is the cause.
The question is, Will microsoft choose to address and fix the problem in a future release, as it is a known flaw, or will they choose to THEN decide to NOT support previous versions of DirectX in the Upcoming Directx12?

MY feelings regarding these older games and directx support would be different if they were all crashing and breaking, but they aren't, they just happen to run in SSSSSSSSSLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOWWWW MMMMMOOOOOOOOTTTTTTIIIIIIOOOOOONNNNN.

And if a 15 to 10 to 5year old game made on OPEN GL doesn't break and runs at speed, that reinforces the need for Microsoft to correct their current release of Directx.

I will concurr with Mike above that the Compatibility of Older games on Windows setups has been most impressive.
I remember a time when a minor update in an OS could crash a game within 6 months to a year of purchase.
So one cannot ignore how remarkable it is that I can run 20 year old games on a current Windows setup.

Now with regards to Microsoft Directx games.. I would just like to run them at speed :D
 

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avada

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Widows compatibility with older systems is actually pretty good considering how many changes have been made thru time. Insisting on compatibility with really old stuff would just make already large OS even larger and changes have to be made gradually and that slows down development. Just like all the stuff in life, sometimes comes the time to let go of old things in favor of new ones.

Bullshit. There's a lot of garbage in windows. But a compatibility layer for old DX, directdraw versions would in the tens of megabytes.
Just think about it. Emulating a whole PS2 fits in tens of megabytes and these are just measly graphics API's. Even some hobbyists (partially) implemented directdraw for windows 7 when they had issues... The wine project had a near complete emulation...
That's just what I said, already too much garbage in Windows to ad some more by emulating or making it compatible for few people to play some pre historic games. Software makers should keep up with new OSes, why would everybody suffer with overburdened HW and OS. My video card and monitor can't even display such low resolutions to play very old games. Ho wants them, let them keep old computers just for such occasions. Let rest of us have a modern, lean system to work on. When ever you try to please everyone you end up not pleasing anybody.

No, you're just repeating your nonsense. A few megabytes for something that many want is nothing when gigabytes are wasted for something that's never used or crappy winsxs.
 

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CountMike

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Bullshit. There's a lot of garbage in windows. But a compatibility layer for old DX, directdraw versions would in the tens of megabytes.
Just think about it. Emulating a whole PS2 fits in tens of megabytes and these are just measly graphics API's. Even some hobbyists (partially) implemented directdraw for windows 7 when they had issues... The wine project had a near complete emulation...
That's just what I said, already too much garbage in Windows to ad some more by emulating or making it compatible for few people to play some pre historic games. Software makers should keep up with new OSes, why would everybody suffer with overburdened HW and OS. My video card and monitor can't even display such low resolutions to play very old games. Ho wants them, let them keep old computers just for such occasions. Let rest of us have a modern, lean system to work on. When ever you try to please everyone you end up not pleasing anybody.

No, you're just repeating your nonsense. A few megabytes for something that many want is nothing when gigabytes are wasted for something that's never used or crappy winsxs.
If it's a nonsense that I would like a clean, modern system instead of one loaded with crap to sou you can run a mindless old game, so be it. It could be cut down even more by tossing out some old time staff and now some would like even more useless staff added. Just remember, as much as PC is good nowadays for playing games, it's still a tool more than anything else, There's Xboxes, neses and sneses and whatever so you can play your heart out. Leave PC alone to do what it's meant for, games are just piece of it and not a necessary one at that. If you were crying about some serious and expensive piece of SW, I could see a point but a game....
 

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Vince800

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You have got a clean, modern system. This compatibility is built into DirectX it's already there, there is just an issue with it which requires a fix. Not unlike any other fix which is released through Windows Update each month. As said before they're not adding anything to bog down the system by resolving this issue.

Do you prefer to have your OS's with unfixed issues or something?

Maybe this is something which might be resolved with the addition of DirectX12 when Microsoft release it.
 

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CountMike

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Modern, maybe, clean, not so much but I can think about many more important bugs that need fixing than to worry about some obscure old games.
 

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Vince800

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It's a DirectX issue, in fact it's not even affecting just obscure old games. There are some recent DX9 titles which are being affected too. Of course there are some other bugs but why not bring things like this to their attention too.
 

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CountMike

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That's already more reasonable request but knowing M$'s habits I wouldn't hold my breath.
 

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elbmek

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I run Far Cry 2, Silent Hunter 4 (2007) and others in Win 7 on laptop and 8.1 on my pc - no problems. I also have Sid Meiers Pirates running great.

AND, what might be a bit of a record on 8.1 - a 1997 Freelancer game from Microsoft. Well, its now the base engine for successive award winning mods Discovery 485 486 and 487 are in my pc and laptop. But the mods require a virgin installation of FL to run off.
 
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vrosa

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I didn't have trouble to run old games (7-10 years) in Win8.1 yet, however I have old PCs for old games !

:)
 

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