No Microsoft Start Menu for Windows 8 until 2015: Sources

Microsoft won't be delivering a new Start Menu for Windows 8 with its coming Windows 8.1 Update 2, after all.

That recent change in plans comes courtesy of a couple of my sources who've had good track records on Windows information.

Up until recently, Microsoft was hoping to make a new "Mini" Start Menu part of a second update to Windows 8.1. Windows 8.1 Update 2 was -- and still is, last I heard -- slated to arrive in August of this year.

Microsoft's operating systems group has decided to hold off on delivering a Microsoft-developed Start Menu until Threshold, the next "major" release of Windows. Threshold, which may or may not ultimately be called Windows 9, is expected to be released in April 2015. I'm not clear whether the postponement is because the feature won't be fully baked in time, or if there's another reason for the change in plans.

Read more at: No Microsoft Start Menu for Windows 8 until 2015: Sources | ZDNet

 

[livingenzyme]

There is currently a huge disconnect between desk jockeys and field jockeys. And this is exactly why there are so few applications written for field jockeys right now. Desk jockeys can't imagine what it's like to compute on your feet, and field jockeys don't know how to code.

Is there any chance it could be because desk jockeys outnumber filed jockeys 100,000 to 1....???

(note, I made the number up based on absolutely actual factual data whatsoever)

Absolutely 0% chance. I pulled that number out of my ass.

Here's the thing. You get the impression that desk jockeys outnumber field jockeys because you see their presence on the internet more. I assure you, there are more field jockeys out there than desk jockeys. Unfortunately, almost all software available are written by desk jockeys who have no comprehension of field work.

 

[livingenzyme]

Welcome to Windows Eight Forums, livingenzyme.

Having worked building for a career, I know exactly what you mean. Very well put!

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying metro is flawless. Take the touch keyboard for example. It covers most of the screen, making it impossible to work with out in the field. Whoever designed the win8/rt keyboard has no concept of computing on his feet. Here is a screenshot of what I mean.



See how the keyboard covered up most of the screen including my autocomplete suggestions?

I've written a code to disable the virtual keyboard and added one that I designed.



It's movable and resizable.



Why in the world did MS not allow devs to build custom keyboards? I had to write a hack to achieve this. It's like MS used a braindead person to design the virtual keyboard.

 

[Winuser]

Probably the same person who decided dedicated desktop users didn't need or want a start menu.

 

[livingenzyme]

Probably the same person who decided dedicated desktop users didn't need or want a start menu.

Yes. And notice my autocomplete or autosuggest list. Why on god's green earth didn't MS include such control for metro? It's one of the most popular and common ways for form filling and I had to write my own from scratch.

And don't get me started on printing. With a desktop or wpf project, it takes a couple lines of code to print anything. It took me whopping 150 lines of code to print a formatted page. It's like the geniuses at MS thought we all had enough free time like they do to stick our thumb up our asses most of the time.

 

[Winuser]

The sad part is, (IMHO) with a just a few changes Windows 8 could have gone from a good OS to a great OS. Hopefully Windows 9 will change this.

 

[Rickkins]

There is currently a huge disconnect between desk jockeys and field jockeys. And this is exactly why there are so few applications written for field jockeys right now. Desk jockeys can't imagine what it's like to compute on your feet, and field jockeys don't know how to code.

Is there any chance it could be because desk jockeys outnumber filed jockeys 100,000 to 1....???

(note, I made the number up based on absolutely actual factual data whatsoever)

Absolutely 0% chance. I pulled that number out of my ass.

Here's the thing. You get the impression that desk jockeys outnumber field jockeys because you see their presence on the internet more. I assure you, there are more field jockeys out there than desk jockeys. Unfortunately, almost all software available are written by desk jockeys who have no comprehension of field work.

Quite possibly one of the silliest suppositions I've ever heard.... and I've heard quite a few...
You're trying to tell me that the billion or so desktop users are a minority to the amount of field jockeys.....???

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying metro is flawless. Take the touch keyboard for example. It covers most of the screen, making it impossible to work with out in the field. Whoever designed the win8/rt keyboard has no concept of computing on his feet. Here is a screenshot of what I mean.

No, they're not perfect. In fact during 8RP days they sucked, but I watched them fix and add to them update by update to where they are a joy to use. At least this is a step in the right direction.

I've written a code to disable the virtual keyboard and added one that I designed.

Very well done! And I see you made it translucent. Good idea! Can I buy one?

Why in the world did MS not allow devs to build custom keyboards? I had to write a hack to achieve this. It's like MS used a braindead person to design the virtual keyboard.

It's like you stated. They're desk jockeys. It's like architects. They should have to work in the field to get a firsthand experience of what it's like before they're allowed to draw comic strips.

I've given scenarios of how much more efficient 8.x is at relaying information to the field and visa versa, but no one seems to get it. Good luck getting your ideas across. I'm here to state that they're good ones! :thumb:

 

[livingenzyme]

Is there any chance it could be because desk jockeys outnumber filed jockeys 100,000 to 1....???

(note, I made the number up based on absolutely actual factual data whatsoever)

Absolutely 0% chance. I pulled that number out of my ass.

Here's the thing. You get the impression that desk jockeys outnumber field jockeys because you see their presence on the internet more. I assure you, there are more field jockeys out there than desk jockeys. Unfortunately, almost all software available are written by desk jockeys who have no comprehension of field work.

Quite possibly one of the silliest suppositions I've ever heard.... and I've heard quite a few...
You're trying to tell me that the billion or so desktop users are a minority to the amount of field jockeys.....???

Every field engineer, foreman, and laborer I know and know off use desktop computers. It doesn't mean they can use the PC for their field work.

You are creating a false dilemma. You're trying to pass the false assumption that either people use desktop computers or they are field, outdoor workers. I'm not 5.

 

[Rickkins]

Every field engineer, foreman, and laborer I know and know off use desktop computers. It doesn't mean they can use the PC for their field work.

You are creating a false dilemma. You're trying to pass the false assumption that either people use desktop computers or they are field, outdoor workers. I'm not 5.

No, I'm not creating anything. I'm merely challenging a statement that you made, nothing more. No biggie really.

 

[jimbo45]

Welcome to Windows Eight Forums, livingenzyme.

Having worked building for a career, I know exactly what you mean. Very well put!

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying metro is flawless. Take the touch keyboard for example. It covers most of the screen, making it impossible to work with out in the field. Whoever designed the win8/rt keyboard has no concept of computing on his feet. Here is a screenshot of what I mean.

View attachment 44883

See how the keyboard covered up most of the screen including my autocomplete suggestions?

I've written a code to disable the virtual keyboard and added one that I designed.

View attachment 44884

It's movable and resizable.

View attachment 44885

Why in the world did MS not allow devs to build custom keyboards? I had to write a hack to achieve this. It's like MS used a braindead person to design the virtual keyboard.

Hi there

On my system the keyboard is fine -- I'm using a 14 inch screen with touch -- seems quite manageable. keyboard is moveable too. Running Windows 8.1 update 1.

After your inspector has filled in a few lines simply move the keyboard to the TOP of the screen -- not very difficult.

I agree though it should be reasonably re-sizeable -- send your suggestion to Ms - you *might* get a reward !!!.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[livingenzyme]

Welcome to Windows Eight Forums, livingenzyme.

Having worked building for a career, I know exactly what you mean. Very well put!

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying metro is flawless. Take the touch keyboard for example. It covers most of the screen, making it impossible to work with out in the field. Whoever designed the win8/rt keyboard has no concept of computing on his feet. Here is a screenshot of what I mean.

View attachment 44883

See how the keyboard covered up most of the screen including my autocomplete suggestions?

I've written a code to disable the virtual keyboard and added one that I designed.

View attachment 44884

It's movable and resizable.

View attachment 44885

Why in the world did MS not allow devs to build custom keyboards? I had to write a hack to achieve this. It's like MS used a braindead person to design the virtual keyboard.

Hi there

On my system the keyboard is fine -- I'm using a 14 inch screen with touch -- seems quite manageable. keyboard is moveable too.

After your inspector has filled in a few lines simply move the keyboard to the TOP of the screen -- not very difficult.

I agree though it should be reasonably re-sizeable -- send your suggestion to Ms - you *might* get a reward !!!.

Cheers
jimbo

14" is too big. Our field tests so far show that 8'' is best.

I've already bitched directly to MS. It's a company made up entirely of desk jockeys. Doubtful they cared about this peon.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there

Y'ep for field stuff 8 ins is about right -- wonder though if a touch pen might be possible -- although that's something else that can easily get lost in the field - for example when going to say a faulty H/V electricity Pylon in the middle of nowhere.

Another possibility is to have all drop down items on the inspection form - but sometimes the observations made by an inspector out in the field won't always fit into "pre-canned" selections. Another design possibility is for the FORM to accept input from a Mobile phone acting as an external keyboard - here again you would need at least phone coverage at the remote site.

As a "REAL" Engineer myself I often get the feeling that people designing applications for mobile devices to be used out in the field have never either USED one of these devices or never set foot outside their lab or office.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[livingenzyme]

Every field engineer, foreman, and laborer I know and know off use desktop computers. It doesn't mean they can use the PC for their field work.

You are creating a false dilemma. You're trying to pass the false assumption that either people use desktop computers or they are field, outdoor workers. I'm not 5.

No, I'm not creating anything. I'm merely challenging a statement that you made, nothing more. No biggie really.

Look at it this way. In a hospital, who do you think make up most of the personnel? Doctors, nurses, and others who move around or administrators, help desk people, and others who sit at a desk all day?

In the construction industry, it takes 3 engineers and may be 4 drafters to design. It takes a dozen or more field engineers, half a dozen surveyors, and 100 or more laborers and operators for a $700 million project. I don't know why you would think that our economy and infrastructure can be maintained mostly by people who sit at a desk all day. We often get young engineers who's dream is to sit at a desk all day. Most of them would beg to transfer out to the field in a couple years.

 

[livingenzyme]

Hi there

Y'ep for field stuff 8 ins is about right -- wonder though if a touch pen might be possible -- although that's something else that can easily get lost in the field - for example when going to say a faulty H/V electricity Pylon in the middle of nowhere.

Another possibility is to have all drop down items on the inspection form - but sometimes the observations made by an inspector out in the field won't always fit into "pre-canned" selections. Another design possibility is for the FORM to accept input from a Mobile phone acting as an external keyboard - here again you would need at least phone coverage at the remote site.

As a "REAL" Engineer myself I often get the feeling that people designing applications for mobile devices to be used out in the field have never either USED one of these devices or never set foot outside their lab or office.

Cheers
jimbo

Bluetooth connection... I'm stealing this idea.

 

[jimbo45]

Every field engineer, foreman, and laborer I know and know off use desktop computers. It doesn't mean they can use the PC for their field work.

You are creating a false dilemma. You're trying to pass the false assumption that either people use desktop computers or they are field, outdoor workers. I'm not 5.

No, I'm not creating anything. I'm merely challenging a statement that you made, nothing more. No biggie really.

Look at it this way. In a hospital, who do you think make up most of the personnel? Doctors, nurses, and others who move around or administrators, help desk people, and others who sit at a desk all day?

In the construction industry, it takes 3 engineers and may be 4 drafters to design. It takes a dozen or more field engineers, half a dozen surveyors, and 100 or more laborers and operators for a $700 million project. I don't know why you would think that our economy and infrastructure can be maintained mostly by people who sit at a desk all day. We often get young engineers who's dream is to sit at a desk all day. Most of them would beg to transfer out to the field in a couple years.

Hi there

100% to that !!!

I HATED it when I was stuck in an office -- couldn't wait to get my next field gig.

Modern open plan offices are a TOTAL abomination - especially in these days of total lack of consideration for other people when using mobile phones. Something about a Mobile phone just seems to switch off any idea of manners or consideration for others -- I'm sure you knoiw what I mean -- loud ring tones, annoying email notification beeps every few seconds, click noises when texting and when answering / making calls using voices so loud that even an old Drill Sgt in the Army would be proud of.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[CountMike]

Don't those tablets have a place for a lock cable, can tie a touch pen to it, that's what i do with smart phone.

 

[jimbo45]

Don't those tablets have a place for a lock cable, can tie a touch pen to it, that's what i do with smart phone.

Hi there

Out in the field - especially if the weather is bad / very windy (Iceland gets very windy !!) the last thing you want to do is fiddle around with lock cables -- and the keys are usually tiny as well -- another very losable item. Remember also if it's cold and wet you might be wearing gloves in any case so even more fiddly to mess around with a lock cable..

Cheers
jimbo

 

[livingenzyme]

Don't those tablets have a place for a lock cable, can tie a touch pen to it, that's what i do with smart phone.

Too cumbersome. Already field tested it. Before we field test these concepts, they seem perfectly convenient and cool on paper. It's only after field tests that most of these ideas are trash. This is why most people in the industry still use pen and paper, inefficient as they may be.


Also, there are anti-tech oldies that haven't died off of old age yet. They hate it that we use tech at all. This is why everything I design in my software has to be dummified. If it takes these oldies more than 2 seconds to figure out how to do something, they reject it out right. Hence, why my app syncs in real time all data input across all devices.

Edit.

I've been putting a contraption together for a person to wear an 8" tablet on his left arm so he can be hands free. Think buzz light year.

 

[CountMike]

You guys, you have it relatively easy nowadays, Smart phones, tablets big and small, laptops, netbooks, kindles and all kinds of goodies and you are complaining about menus on them. !!! My work consisted of office, factory and field work that took me from Toronto to Baffin island, Vancouver, Montreal, Detroit, St Louis, Memphis and Laredo, everywhere our corporation had plants and many places in between where we had customers or suppliers, The best help I could have was an IBM 8086 portable that weighed more than 20 pounds. Tried a Newton at one time but it was no help at all. Only last couple of working years I got a Toshiba 286 laptop but by that time I was stuck at two factories only and had a PC at each one and connected by a real slow DSL. By that time I collected a suitcase of floppy disks to lug around too.
So, to me at least, fight about measly menu makes very little sense.

 

[RBS]

Yawn... can't we put this topic to bed?