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Microsoft's big mistake ???


SIW2

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#1
Adrian isn't impressed- here's why:

They’re just tablets. They’re shaped like tablets and have stuff inside them that we’ve come to expect tablets to have...

it’s a really odd time for Microsoft to start selling branded hardware. The only OEM that’s going to be happy here is whoever Microsoft has contracted to build Surface tablets...

two near-identical tablets powered by two different operating systems ...

It tells the world that no matter how much effort Microsoft has put into making Windows 8 ready for tablets, people still need a keyboard and a trackpad...

Then there’s the mistake of announcing this tablet far too soon.

Surface: Why Microsoft's big mystery turns out to be a big mistake | ZDNet
 

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#2
Like I've said before and just yesterday, you're going to hear a lot of crap from Tech bloggers, let's face it they thought the iPad was going to fail as well. How did that turn out for them. They just love hating Microsoft, but the facts are that a lot of people are waiting for these tablets. All Microsoft has to do is deliver these things at a reasonable price and good build quality, and they will be a hit.

Go to any forum and find out how popular these things will be, even lots of people with iPads are willing to dump them if MS can deliver. I don't even know why I bothered to read that fools post,"it's just another tablet", he's one of the only people who thinks that. Most Tech bloggers are in the Apple camp and can't see anything else, if Microsoft fails it will be mainly because of them and they're biased garbage.
 

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Kynix

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#3
Like I've said before and just yesterday, you're going to hear a lot of crap from Tech bloggers, let's face it they thought the iPad was going to fail as well. How did that turn out for them. They just love hating Microsoft, but the facts are that a lot of people are waiting for these tablets. All Microsoft has to do is deliver these things at a reasonable price and good build quality, and they will be a hit.

Go to any forum and find out how popular these things will be, even lots of people with iPads are willing to dump them if MS can deliver. I don't even know why I bothered to read that fools post,"it's just another tablet", he's one of the only people who thinks that. Most Tech bloggers are in the Apple camp and can't see anything else, if Microsoft fails it will be mainly because of them and they're biased garbage.
Mostly what i've seen is just W8 hating, not hating microsoft. What is their point anyway :sarc: (Mainstream?)
 

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#4
No believe me, bloggers all over the Internet are waiting for Microsoft to stumble, it's become a sport. Quite a lot admire Windows 8 but they just cant help having a stab at it.
 

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#5
Do you ever get the feeling that bloggers oversimplify things just a bit?

It tells the world that no matter how much effort Microsoft has put into making Windows 8 ready for tablets, people still need a keyboard and a trackpad...
Well, yes and no. You don't need a keyboard or trackpad to use metro -- in fact you'll probably find that you don't want to. So you won't need the keyboard and trackpad for 100 percent of what you might call 'tablet standard usage,' all of which you can do without leaving Metro. What makes the x86 surface not identical to its competitor is that it can also be used as a notebook. And then yes, you will need a keyboard and trackpad and be happy you have them.


Surface: Why Microsoft's big mystery turns out to be a big mistake | ZDNet[/QUOTE]
 

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#6
No believe me, bloggers all over the Internet are waiting for Microsoft to stumble, it's become a sport. Quite a lot admire Windows 8 but they just cant help having a stab at it.
As a blogger, I am always in favor of all new good things in Windows 8. Change is good, but useless changes like removal of start button is not the thing that I will admire :rolleyes: .
 

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#7
No believe me, bloggers all over the Internet are waiting for Microsoft to stumble, it's become a sport. Quite a lot admire Windows 8 but they just cant help having a stab at it.
As a blogger, I am always in favor of all new good things in Windows 8. Change is good, but useless changes like removal of start button is not the thing that I will admire :rolleyes: .
I don't think we need a start button on a tablet, and I don't miss the start button at all, it's just a different way of doing things.
 

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SIW2

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#8
I have been an MS and Windows supporter for a while - where do you think the MS badge comes from?

I do not like Win8 .

Not really because of the look and feel of metro - that is a matter of personal taste.

Not really because it is isn't optimized for keyboard/mouse .

Not really because they have removed useful things to make room for metro.

The real reason is the removal of choice - it goes much further and deeper than many of you realize.

I am no MS history expert - but wasn't it when Billy Gates was running the show that MS were king of the world ? - didn't they have a share price around $60?

Billy wouldn't have treated the customers like this.
 

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Vertex

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#9
I don't think we need a start button on a tablet, and I don't miss the start button at all, it's just a different way of doing things.
But its undeniable how many people including myself are so upset with the removal of the Start Menu and Start Button that you fanboys would often always say to be unnecessary when it is important for many people.

Yes, I do feel that many bloggers out there are trying to hit on Microsoft, trying to nail MS's coffin and seem to favor Apple more (in spite of how clumsy I find iPads and iPhones are) but they do state real facts that fanboys would always call rubbish. And isn't this supposed to be a wakeup call towards Microsoft that these tech bloggers are exploiting an obvious design flaw on behalf of Windows 8 and they really need to fix that up to favor more people and lessen the complaints as well as lessen the reasons for these tech bloggers to put them down?
 

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SIW2

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#10
It tells the world that no matter how much effort Microsoft has put into making Windows 8 ready for tablets, people still need a keyboard and a trackpad...
If English is your first language you must surely understand that - it is a perfectly valid comment about the message it sends to prospective buyers.

He is not saying you need a keyboard and mouse to use win8.

He is saying that by including keyboard and trackpad - MS is sending out a message that you do need those things.- ( even though you don't )

He is saying that is not a good message to send out from a marketing perspective.

It seems like a good idea to me to have them - but I understand his point.
 

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#11
It tells the world that no matter how much effort Microsoft has put into making Windows 8 ready for tablets, people still need a keyboard and a trackpad...
If English is your first language you must surely understand that - it is a perfectly valid comment about the message it sends to prospective buyers.

He is not saying you need a keyboard and mouse to use win8.

He is saying that by including keyboard and trackpad - MS is sending out a message that you do need those things.- ( even though you don't )

He is saying that is not a good message to send out from a marketing perspective.

It seems like a good idea to me to have them - but I understand his point.
SIW2 who is saying you don't need a keyboard and mouse, are you saying that I'm saying that, because I'm not, and neither is stefelapod, so are you saying Microsoft is saying that. If you are, I've never seen that and I certainly wouldn't like that because I'm using a keyboard and mouse right now, on Windows 8.

But when I'm on a tablet that's a different thing, I rarely you use a keyboard and never a mouse. But if I had a Windows 8 tablet, I could see myself using a keyboard more often.
 

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#12
It tells the world that no matter how much effort Microsoft has put into making Windows 8 ready for tablets, people still need a keyboard and a trackpad...
He is saying that is not a good message to send out from a marketing perspective.
Oh, I don't know. When I saw the Surface video, the mag keyboard was pretty much the shiniest niftiest part of the deal. I mean, without touching it, the Surface itself is pretty much indistinguishable from an Ipad. Microsoft came up with a beautiful hardware design (for once), so it's unsurprising that they're going to show it to us in multiple colors at every opportunity.

You can be certain that what ipad users are going to be asking for for Christmas is a magnetic keyboard cover -- I know my mom will -- and they're going to be disappointed and confused if they discover that they can't have one for their ipad when they look across the isle and see a new beautiful sleek tablet (otherwise indistinguishable from the ipad) getting flipped open to display a colorful, elegant, and useful interface device.

It makes you wonder why apple didn't come up with it first -- oh, wait. They had no competition.

The mag keyboard is slim, it occupies the same space as an ipad accessory that is so ubiquitous you can hardly imagine the ipad without it (the cover), it requires no additional power supply, it does not need to be plugged in, and therefore it's simply there when you want it. A truly elegant product pairing.

I can't really see where the downside is. But I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion, and bloggers make their living expressing theirs in no uncertain terms. ;)
 
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pparks1

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#13
I currently have an Asus tablet and the primary reason that I don't use it more, is because typing on the screen is an exercise in futility. (Yes, I do realize that I can buy for another $100+ a keyboard dock for it).

I'm actually somewhat interested in these MS surface tablets. For me, it's less of a tablet and more of a smaller ultrabook. That really works out better for me, I prefer a full fledged OS with real app support (and apps I am used to), not a phone OS with phone apps. The fact that it comes with the keyboard and touch pad is a huge bonus in my book..something less to buy (of course, the cost will be baked into the price).
 

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SIW2

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#14
Did I dream this up - or are there ipad cases with built in keyboards?

I might have imagined it .

Extra cost in that of course - so if surface comes in at the same price - it might look like good value.

The problem is - it has got win8 on it.

The great thing about Windows was always that you could do just about anything you wanted with it - MS was always saying - it's your PC.

Apple is much more controlling.

That is why windows was better.

Now MS are also doing the controlling, the forcing, the locking down.

That is the massive problem with win8 - not the o/s itself.
 

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#15
something less to buy
I hope you turn out to be right about this. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if they unbundled the Surface and the mag keyboard for sale when they come out. The Surface is going to have to compete in price with the ipad and bundling the keyboard with it may make that impossible.
 

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#16
I don't think we need a start button on a tablet, and I don't miss the start button at all, it's just a different way of doing things.
Start button and Start Menu are just examples. What you'll say about Aero, and removing WMP... there are certain such things which are strange in Windows 8. Also MS is forcing us to buy new gadgets which support touch if we want to have W8 in our way :think:
 

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#17
Did I dream this up - or are there ipad cases with built in keyboards?

I might have imagined it .
We were talking about why it might not be a bad marketing tactic to show the Surface with the mag keyboard. My point is that there is no equally good alternative for the ipad at the moment. There certainly are ipad covers with built in keyboards (not having an Ipad myself, I did have to climb a sacred mountain and consult the oracles to find out). The current ipad keyboard covers are both inelegant and lack the features of the Microsoft mag keyboard; they are all black, they're clunky looking, they all either need an external power source or a cable connection, and since the Ipad has no kickstand, they are all quite a lot bulkier than the Microsoft mag keyboard. Notably, they are also not magnetic.

My point is that for once Microsoft created a product so beautiful, and so convenient, that Ipad users will covet it. They'll see it in adds, they'll see it at the airport, they'll see it at school, and they won't be able to have it because the Ipad has no kickstand, and no way to connect the keyboard without an independent power source or a cable that I know of. Those are two design aspects of the ipad that will prevent it from ever having a keyboard cover as small as the Microsoft mag cover and as hassle free.

These are all reasons why it may be smart for Microsoft to show us the Surface with the mag keyboard at every opportunity.
 

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crawfish

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#18
We were talking about why it might not be a bad marketing tactic to show the Surface with the mag keyboard. My point is that there is no equally good alternative for the ipad at the moment. There certainly are ipad covers with built in keyboards (not having an Ipad myself, I did have to climb a sacred mountain and consult the oracles to find out). The current ipad keyboard covers are both inelegant and lack the features of the Microsoft mag keyboard; they are all black, they're clunky looking, they all either need an external power source or a cable connection, and since the Ipad has no kickstand, they are all quite a lot bulkier than the Microsoft mag keyboard. Notably, they are also not magnetic.
The iPad keyboard cases are wireless, have batteries, provide the kickstand functionality themselves, and some are also magnetic. But what do I know? I didn't climb any sacred mountain and consult any fancy oracle there; I just typed into google /ipad keyboard cover magnetic kickstand -surface/ and found this and many others on the first page:

Logitech Ultrathin Keyboard Cover Review

Perhaps best of all, they're optional add-ons. I just don't know how much of a winning idea it is to have this capability as standard. It seems to me there would be an ongoing tension between using it as a real tablet vs. an ersatz laptop, and after the novelty wears off, and the clunkiness of switching to keyboard mode and back sets in, I'm not sure how much the keyboard gets used. That goes for all tablets and convertible laptops. Seems like a niche product to me, and building it into the product as Microsoft has done seems to convey they don't really believe in the tablet itself.
 

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#19
Good find, you got me on the magnet bit too. I had seen that one and just lumped under black, clunky looking, and bulky. Somehow the Microsoft mag cover just looks a lot nicer to me than anything available for the ipad.


I can't seem to find much in the way of specs for the Microsoft mag keyboard, but from the pictures, it looks like its too thin to have it's own power source. I put this down as a plus because, who wants to charge their tablet cover? Having to charge your tablet cover sounds like a bad thing to me. It doesn't have any cables dangling off either, and I don't see how it can be Bluetooth without it's own power source, so my best guess for how it connects would be to say that it must connect similarly to the way the magnetic charger works on the mac book pro? That would be made possible by hardware on the Surface that, to my knowledge, the Ipad doesn't have.

If anyone has the specs for it, we could put this past debate. Anyone?

I can only speak for myself as to convertible laptops -- I use mine professionally as well as for home use, and can only say that I wouldn't give up my keyboard or my touch screen for a sack full of kittens. Personally, I probably wouldn't buy the Surface either, but I can't get past thinking how much more beautiful its keyboard is than any competing product available for the ipad.
 

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SIW2

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#20
Yes, it does look great.

MS have done an excellent job with the appearance.
 

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