Is Windows 8 a failure ? Time to say bye, bye MSFT ?

[Mystere]

Look, Mustang. I'd like to put this to bed. I'm fully willing to admit you are completely 100% right if you can just do one thing.

Explain to me exactly why you feel justified in demonizing Microsoft for wanting to evolve their product. Explain to me why you feel Microsoft owes you a version of Windows 8 designed in the way you specify. Explain to me why you feel like you have been victimized by Microsoft.

If you can adequately do that, without making generalizations, being vague, or otherwise dancing around the questions. I'll never question you again.

Rambling vaguely about arrogance, or that Microsoft "thinks it what's knows best for you" won't cut it. Microsoft thinks it knows what's best for their shareholders. And what's best for their shareholders is a product they believe will be competitive. It's not a democracy.

If they're wrong, then the market will tell them so by refusing to buy their products, and they will either change or go out of business. But that's their choice, and their prerogative. You simply do not fit into that equation if you do not want their product.

 

[Mystere]

I have to dispute the win32 argument. Theoretically, in the long term, it will be turned over into WinRT. But right now, WinRT is actually a pretty new foundation layer on top of win32 as win32 has been proven to work and whatnot. There is simply too much piping and coding to get rid of it. But it might, as WinRT matures.

I'm quite aware of that, which is why I said that Win32 will *slowly* become more and more irrelevant. It will probably take at least 5 years, and probably closer to 10 for that to happen, and it will be dependent upon Metro improving and addressing some of its limitations. But assuming that happens, Win32 will be dying off.. later rather than sooner though.

 

[sgage]

And Microsoft has the right to ignore you, and pursue their own agenda.

Holy moly, you seem to have way too much time on your hands. Of course Microsoft can do whatever they want with Windows! Who the hell disputes that?

The entire point is that Microsoft's agenda is not that of a lot of their former users and fans. Microsoft is totally free to alienate whoever they want. It's simply a business judgement/gamble like all corporations make from time to time. They may find it is a losing gamble. Or not - who knows yet... it's early days. Microsoft has the right to do whatever they want with Windows, but there are alternatives nowadays.

But as of right now, a lot of people, and it's not some tiny minority of Windows users, find Windows 8 to be absurd for their needs and their hardware. They just want Windows on their desktops/laptops. They are not interested and don't have the hardware for touchy interfaces, and naturally resent having that in their faces. Why is that so hard for you and you fellow fanbois to comprehend?

Like I said, it's early days, and we'll see what shakes out. But your strange screed is just that... strange. Weird datribes about indivuals' legal standing? Idiotic talk about "dictating" and "rights". Come on - this is nonsensical. We're taking about MS alienating a big part of their base, that's all. Everyone has the right to tell MS that they don't like the changes. MS should honor that and take it on board. They're a business, these are their customers.

You seem to take any criticism of Win8 as a personal attack. A lot of people really don't like the change of direction, and they are not the losers you try to make them out to be. A lot of people feel betrayed by these changes - don't be angry with them, try to understand.

 

[Mystere]

Holy moly, you seem to have way too much time on your hands. Of course Microsoft can do whatever they want with Windows! Who the hell disputes that?

Mustang disputes it, You dispute it. Really, you do. You may say you don't, but the rest of your comments say you do.

But as of right now, a lot of people, and it's not some tiny minority of Windows users, find Windows 8 to be absurd for their needs and their hardware. They just want Windows on their desktops/laptops. They are not interested and don't have the hardware for touchy interfaces, and naturally resent having that in their faces. Why is that so hard for you and you fellow fanbois to comprehend?

Resentment comes from entitlement. You absolutely cannot feel resentment if you do not feel entitled to something that you are not getting. This is what I mean by you say one thing, but then say the other.

And it's not a lot of people. It's a very small number of people. I've had experience with several dozen new Windows 8 users, and while many of them were a little confused at first, all of them figured things out pretty quickly and got on with their lives and did not allow a change in OS to consume their lives.

I have yet to meet anyone that continues to have such a strong opposition to Windows 8 if they gave it a fair chance. The *ONLY* people I've encountered with such strong opinions are on message boards, and of those I don't know any of them that actually gave it a fair chance. They all self-admittedly ran to replace functions almost instantly, rather than trying to actually use it as intended for a period of time.

Now, maybe there's some people out there that did give it a fair shake (and no, running it in a vm for an hour every now and then is not giving it a fair shake, even if you did that over many months during beta testing. You have to make it your primary OS for at least a week, preferably a couple of weeks.)

Like I said, it's early days, and we'll see what shakes out. But your strange screed is just that... strange. Weird datribes about indivuals' legal standing? Idiotic talk about "dictating" and "rights". Come on - this is nonsensical. We're taking about MS alienating a big part of their base, that's all. Everyone has the right to tell MS that they don't like the changes. MS should honor that and take it on board. They're a business, these are their customers.

As I said. Absolutely, everyone has the right criticize. There's a difference between saying your peace, and posting hundreds of messages saying the same thing over and over, and insisting that if they're not listened to that the company is arrogant and condescending.

You seem to take any criticism of Win8 as a personal attack. A lot of people really don't like the change of direction, and they are not the losers you try to make them out to be. A lot of people feel betrayed by these changes - don't be angry with them, try to understand.

Betrayed? Really? How can you feel betrayed if you don't feel entitled? You can't. It's a product. It's not a life partner.

And I said very clearly that there's plenty to criticize. But there is a difference between criticism and obsession. A difference between criticism and a vendetta. A difference between criticism and making things up to justify your personal preferences.

 

[sgage]

Holy moly, you seem to have way too much time on your hands. Of course Microsoft can do whatever they want with Windows! Who the hell disputes that?

Mustang disputes it, You dispute it. Really, you do. You may say you don't, but the rest of your comments say you do.

But as of right now, a lot of people, and it's not some tiny minority of Windows users, find Windows 8 to be absurd for their needs and their hardware. They just want Windows on their desktops/laptops. They are not interested and don't have the hardware for touchy interfaces, and naturally resent having that in their faces. Why is that so hard for you and you fellow fanbois to comprehend?

Resentment comes from entitlement. You absolutely cannot feel resentment if you do not feel entitled to something that you are not getting. This is what I mean by you say one thing, but then say the other.

And it's not a lot of people. It's a very small number of people. I've had experience with several dozen new Windows 8 users, and while many of them were a little confused at first, all of them figured things out pretty quickly and got on with their lives and did not allow a change in OS to consume their lives.

I have yet to meet anyone that continues to have such a strong opposition to Windows 8 if they gave it a fair chance. The *ONLY* people I've encountered with such strong opinions are on message boards, and of those I don't know any of them that actually gave it a fair chance. They all self-admittedly ran to replace functions almost instantly, rather than trying to actually use it as intended for a period of time.

Now, maybe there's some people out there that did give it a fair shake (and no, running it in a vm for an hour every now and then is not giving it a fair shake, even if you did that over many months during beta testing. You have to make it your primary OS for at least a week, preferably a couple of weeks.)

Like I said, it's early days, and we'll see what shakes out. But your strange screed is just that... strange. Weird datribes about indivuals' legal standing? Idiotic talk about "dictating" and "rights". Come on - this is nonsensical. We're taking about MS alienating a big part of their base, that's all. Everyone has the right to tell MS that they don't like the changes. MS should honor that and take it on board. They're a business, these are their customers.

As I said. Absolutely, everyone has the right criticize. There's a difference between saying your peace, and posting hundreds of messages saying the same thing over and over, and insisting that if they're not listened to that the company is arrogant and condescending.

You seem to take any criticism of Win8 as a personal attack. A lot of people really don't like the change of direction, and they are not the losers you try to make them out to be. A lot of people feel betrayed by these changes - don't be angry with them, try to understand.

Betrayed? Really? How can you feel betrayed if you don't feel entitled? You can't. It's a product. It's not a life partner.

You are beginning to come across as a lunatic.

And I said very clearly that there's plenty to criticize. But there is a difference between criticism and obsession. A difference between criticism and a vendetta. A difference between criticism and making things up to justify your personal preferences.

You are one sick dude. Now it's "entitlement", is it? Don't you get it? This is not about rightwing politics, it's about a business and its customers. You are projecting hard - you are the obsessed one. How did anything I say dispute the right of MS to do whatever they want?

Now it's "if you don't love Windows 8 you feel entitled"? Look, if MS wants to alienate customers of may years, that's their business.; But your language is absurd and demented.

You wrote "You absolutely cannot feel resentment if you do not feel entitled to something that you are not getting." Absolutely my ass - This is flaming idiocy. I, and a million others, feel resentment because a product that we've used for years has taken a weird turn that doesn't serve us. And before you trot out the old nonsense... NO, WE DON'T HATE CHANGE, WE ARE NOT AFRAID OF CHANGE.

"I have yet to meet anyone that continues to have such a strong opposition to Windows 8 if they gave it a fair chance."

You don't get out much. Listen, I have been using Window 8 since the first Developer's Preview, and every release since then, and I've purchased the damned thing, so just get off it.

"And it's not a lot of people. It's a very small number of people."

You, my friend, are clearly delusional.

 

[Mustang]

Look, Mustang. I'd like to put this to bed.

What I have said is my understanding of the truth in relation to this thread. And I stand by what I said. Period. What you do and say is your business, and is of no interest to me, because I consider your opinion biased.

 

[Coke Robot]

Sometimes, I just have to wonder if people just hit Ctrl Alt Delete and killed all logical thought processes.

 

[Mustang]

Sometimes, I just have to wonder if people just hit Ctrl Alt Delete and killed all logical thought processes.

Hi Cokey, this is a quote from a well known book, (Ecclesiasticus 2:1): "For those who aspire to serve the Lord, prepare yourself for an ordeal."

Let me paraphrase: For those who aspire to champion Wndows 8, prepare yourself for an onslaught.

This is only the tip of the iceberg. As for the Titanic. Man the pumps and dig in for the long haul, because you will need every ounce of your enthusiasm before this is over ... it may well change from being an avocation to a full on life vocation, consuming all other interests and responsibilities in your life!

Seriously, do admire your enthusiasm and honesty. You'd make a top gun salesman!

 

[Coke Robot]

Sometimes, I just have to wonder if people just hit Ctrl Alt Delete and killed all logical thought processes.

Hi Cokey, this is a quote from a well known book, (Ecclesiasticus 2:1): "For those who aspire to serve the Lord, prepare yourself for an ordeal."

Let me paraphrase: For those who aspire to champion Wndows 8, prepare yourself for an onslaught.

This is only the tip of the iceberg. As for the Titanic. Man the pumps and dig in for the long haul, because you will need every ounce of your enthusiasm before this is over ... it may well change from being an avocation to a full on life vocation, consuming all other interests and responsibilities in your life!

Seriously, do admire your enthusiasm and honesty. You'd make a top gun salesman!

I figured I'd need ALL my enthusiasm and my Windows Phone, but some people, it's like WHAT?! It's literally like logic thought just got Ctrl Alt Deleted. Some are saying that they're jumping to Linux because Valve and Steam are going to, Windows 7 is going to be used like xp, and some are tripping balls because metro APPS, apps are the reason they crap down Windows 8.



But yes, I would make a killer salesman, ESPECIALLY a Windows Phone salesman.

 

[Mustang]

I figured I'd need ALL my enthusiasm and my Windows Phone, but some people, it's like WHAT?! It's literally like logic thought just got Ctrl Alt Deleted. Some are saying that they're jumping to Linux because Valve and Steam are going to, Windows 7 is going to be used like xp, and some are tripping balls because metro APPS, apps are the reason they crap down Windows 8.



But yes, I would make a killer salesman, ESPECIALLY a Windows Phone salesman.

I can understand your frustration. And do agree some complaints are really just smoke and mirrors.

And I'm quite sincere in my belief you'd be a gun salesman for Windows phones. I've sold everything from cordials to grocery stores as a student, to civil engineering contracts. And in my previous occupation of marketing manager I'd certainly give you a job.

 

[area 66]

Some are saying that they're jumping to Linux because Valve and Steam are going to,

Well it's not for tomorrow that you will have many choices of games from them. You need more money than Valve probably have to do this, they can't do it alone. You need also support from Nvidia and AMD

 

[lehnerus2000]

I see that you've still got a Desktop

You keep missing the point here. Yes, a desktop can hold more stuff than a tablet, because a tablet has to be portable, but you are forgetting about the docking station. The docking station can contain as much storage or whatever as you need. The docking station does not have to be portable.

I never said that a Docking Station has to be portable.

And you can connect it to that 30" monitor for use on your desktop. Why do you keep ignoring that?

Oh, please. A docking station can be as big as you want. Further, there is a point of diminishing returns. If you can fit everything you could ever possibly use in a package the size of a deck of cards, why would you want to put it in a package the size of a suitcase?

No, you need a docking station. The tablet will have the CPU and access to the files you want that are portable. The tablet can have plenty of RAM. There are already tablets with 8 and 16GB's of RAM.

You just can't grasp the point that a Docking Station with a keyboard, a mouse, a graphics tablet, a power supply, 64 GB of RAM, 256 GB SSD, 2 TB HDD and a 30" monitor is actually a Desktop without a CPU!

Why spend $500 on a Tablet and then spend another $1000 adding accessories to make it work like a Desktop?

There are already larger sized tablets. Sony, for instance, makes a 20" tablet.

People claim that Macbook Air and Ultrabook laptops are too big, so they need a tablet.
I can't see how a 20" tablet is more portable than one of those laptops.

Apple has just released a 7" iPad Mini.
I guess that people were complaining that the standard iPad wasn't portable enough.

Actually I was surprised by the weight of a standard iPad.

Lots of people ride trains every day to go to work. They want to bring their work with them and work while they are commuting, or when they get home. Lots of people do presentations, or travel for a living. They need to bring their office with them.

I never said that Tablets weren't useful for some people (e.g. salespeople, people who perform remote site surveys, etc.).

A Tablet would be useful to me ... for 10 hours/year.
I can't justify spending $500 for that ROI.

I think you're just being obtuse on purpose. If you could carry your computer around in your pocket, why wouldn't you?

Maybe because:

• I don't want to accidentally leave it somewhere (or drop it)?
• I'm not addicted to checking my Facebook status every 30 seconds?
• I don't want to get mugged for it?

I didn't realize you were a physicist. Or a semiconductor engineer.

I don't have to be a physicist or a semiconductor engineer.
It's not my fault that you don't understand BASIC Mathematics and Physics.

Since you don't understand basic Mathematics and Physics, here is a picture.

​

Mathematics and the Laws of Physics determine the number of transistors on a given wafer (n).
Basic Mathematics determines the area of the wafer (1 vs 4).
Both wafers have the same number of layers and/or depth.

People would have said the same thing if you told them you could carry around a super computer in your pocket 40 years ago. They'd say it was impossible, and that it would violate the laws of physics.

Not Gordon E. Moore.

Moore's Law
The law is named after Intel co-founder Gordon E. Moore, who described the trend in his 1965 paper.

Let's check your point shall we?
2012 - 40 = 1972

Looks like basic Mathematics "worked you over" again.

Thanks for clarifying that your "Tablet of Tomorrow" relies on technology that hasn't been invented and will never be incorporated into anything other than Tablets.

The fact is, you simply lack imagination.

There is a difference between irrational fantasy and practical imagination.

I'm not the one insisting that Tablets will become so powerful, they'll outperform/replace Desktops.
I guess that in your world they'll replace Servers and Supercomputers too.

I await the production and release of your Qubit computing devices.

Your argument is that a semi-truck is always better than a motorcycle because the semi truck can carry more stuff. I'll take the motorcycle over your semi-truck any day of the year. It's more fuel efficient, faster, more maneuverable, and attracts women like nothing else.

Sure, the semi-truck is better if you need to haul pallets of stuff, but if you don't.. it's never a better choice.

Wrong again.
My point was that a Desktop will always outperform a Tablet, except in the portability category.

The only advantage tablets have over laptops and desktops is portability.

Your point is that I should buy a motor bike instead of a semi-truck and then spend another $200K adding accessories, so that I can use it as a semi-truck.

 

[Mystere]

Betrayed? Really? How can you feel betrayed if you don't feel entitled? You can't. It's a product. It's not a life partner.

You are beginning to come across as a lunatic.

I did not say the above. Why the hell would you alter my words and falsely quote me saying something as hateful as that? That's very dishonest.

 

[Coke Robot]

I figured I'd need ALL my enthusiasm and my Windows Phone, but some people, it's like WHAT?! It's literally like logic thought just got Ctrl Alt Deleted. Some are saying that they're jumping to Linux because Valve and Steam are going to, Windows 7 is going to be used like xp, and some are tripping balls because metro APPS, apps are the reason they crap down Windows 8.



But yes, I would make a killer salesman, ESPECIALLY a Windows Phone salesman.

I can understand your frustration. And do agree some complaints are really just smoke and mirrors.

And I'm quite sincere in my belief you'd be a gun salesman for Windows phones. I've sold everything from cordials to grocery stores as a student, to civil engineering contracts. And in my previous occupation of marketing manager I'd certainly give you a job.

YAY!

 

[sgage]

Betrayed? Really? How can you feel betrayed if you don't feel entitled? You can't. It's a product. It's not a life partner.

You are beginning to come across as a lunatic.

I did not say the above. Why the hell would you alter my words and falsely quote me saying something as hateful as that? That's very dishonest.

Quotes were getting nested, and I missed.

The "You are beginning to come across as a lunatic." is mine. It was in response to the previous sentence, which was yours, referring to your bizarre talk about entitlement.

 

[legacy7955]

I did not say the above. Why the hell would you alter my words and falsely quote me saying something as hateful as that? That's very dishonest.

Quotes were getting nested, and I missed.

The "You are beginning to come across as a lunatic." is mine. It was in response to the previous sentence, which was yours, referring to your bizarre talk about entitlement.

@Sgage:

As we can see MS is being extremely "Job-ian" in their forcing of customers to accept that stupid metro start UI.

And part of that tactical plan is to "vilify" those that do not see the value (as there is none) in having to be forced to boot to metro UI before entering the desktop.

It is really quite obnoxious and inexcusable to insult and bully customers this way.

I hate to say it but if this is how MS is going to treat the majority of its loyal customers then I hope they lose "their bet" big time.

 

[Mustang]

I did not say the above. Why the hell would you alter my words and falsely quote me saying something as hateful as that? That's very dishonest.

Quotes were getting nested, and I missed.

The "You are beginning to come across as a lunatic." is mine. It was in response to the previous sentence, which was yours, referring to your bizarre talk about entitlement.

@Sgage:

As we can see MS is being extremely "Job-ian" in their forcing of customers to accept that stupid metro start UI.

And part of that tactical plan is to "vilify" those that do not see the value (as there is none) in having to be forced to boot to metro UI before entering the desktop.

It is really quite obnoxious and inexcusable to insult and bully customers this way.

I hate to say it but if this is how MS is going to treat the majority of its loyal customers then I hope they lose "their bet" big time.

 

[gazz9496]

while i like windows 8, and most of it's features I can not see a reason for the apps.

on my phone they are lite and easy to use which is fine seeing as i have limited resources on that thing, i also don't mind the reduction in features these apps offer on my phone because frankly the thing is too small to make use of them.

now i sit at a windows 8 desktop and pull up an app that has the same limited functionality of my phone and look at my overpowered pc and wonder how to make it use more than one thread and more than 12mb of ram above the os utilisation, then i look at the reduced feature set of the app...and revert to a mainstream programe because the app was useless beyond words for a desktop.

I rather enjoy windows 8 but the apps are useless, another reason is the apps themselves, I can't resize them or change them in any way i can't look at two apps side by side in a easy to view format that is actually readable..yes i know i can smidge one to the side and view another one...i did say usable and easy to view, so i can't drop ie10 over to the side and easily read something while performing another task in a different app.

then there is the problem of real estate...i Mean my screen space. Windows 8 apps use to much of it for pointless tasks where they frankly take up to much space for no real reason, then there is the combined problem that i use multiple screens and the inability of those apps to let me use my screen space the way i want to.

so the microsoft store and the apps it has will never be used by me, i already have windows live mail installed over the clunky full screen affair of the metro app version that i can't resize, and pretty much all other apps it has to offer i have alternatives for that i can change at will.

this closed off area of the o/s is more harmfull than good, i often run 6-8 applications side by side split and seperated across multiple screens, when windows 8 apps can let me do that i may consider using them....maybe..no wait i won't they still have crap feature sets.

 

[gazz9496]

And you can connect it to that 30" monitor for use on your desktop. Why do you keep ignoring that?

You just can't grasp the point that a Docking Station with a keyboard, a mouse, a graphics tablet, a power supply, 64 GB of RAM, 256 GB SSD, 2 TB HDD and a 30" monitor is actually a Desktop without a CPU!

Why spend $500 on a Tablet and then spend another $1000 adding accessories to make it work like a Desktop?

I think you both forgot one thing that windows 8 has to offer.

you can log into another windows 8 machine using your info and it will hopefully pull down your apps and mail and access to cloud storage where if you were smart you saved the work you needed.

not tested that feature myself but apparently it should work...essentially you should have all the apps you need at any windows 8 pc, for link i refer you to the developer conference of windows 8 which can be found online by googling it.

so you can do away with the utterly useless tablet pc get a pc at home that actually has some oomf about it and one at work and not have to care a jot about a sodden tablet and it's crappy apps, lack of usb ports for external storage or lack of power for a usb hard drive or lack of optical drive or ability to actually power one.

how many of you could max out a tablets storage capacity having to move files from home to work if all you had was a tablet? what if you needed to burn an iso file for something or burn something to a dvd/cd quickly for a conference because lets be honest your not going to leave your tablet just laying around are you now.

portable hard drives require more power than a tablet can muster so they are useless for that along side their limited storage capacity, the actual apps most would use at work may not be supported by windows 8/andriod or ios so which one do you pick? or do people just expect others to get new software written that does support these ever changing and ever updating software platforms? which version of andriod do you support, will it work with upcoming ios releases? will it work on arm based windows tablets or just the expensive intel offerings?

Not so clear cut now is it, tablets for work....get real they are good for one thing and thats what they get used for most, draw something and crap games and useless apps.

as much as i hate to say this the world has a long way to go before tablets and there reduced functionality can keep up with a basic £300 laptop that can do all of that. it would take a colossal move to cloud style storage at the workplace as well as from music and movie vendors and cheaper video editing software amougst so many others that go against tablets.

 

[Coke Robot]

while i like windows 8, and most of it's features I can not see a reason for the apps.

on my phone they are lite and easy to use which is fine seeing as i have limited resources on that thing, i also don't mind the reduction in features these apps offer on my phone because frankly the thing is too small to make use of them.

now i sit at a windows 8 desktop and pull up an app that has the same limited functionality of my phone and look at my overpowered pc and wonder how to make it use more than one thread and more than 12mb of ram above the os utilisation, then i look at the reduced feature set of the app...and revert to a mainstream programe because the app was useless beyond words for a desktop.

I rather enjoy windows 8 but the apps are useless, another reason is the apps themselves, I can't resize them or change them in any way i can't look at two apps side by side in a easy to view format that is actually readable..yes i know i can smidge one to the side and view another one...i did say usable and easy to view, so i can't drop ie10 over to the side and easily read something while performing another task in a different app.

then there is the problem of real estate...i Mean my screen space. Windows 8 apps use to much of it for pointless tasks where they frankly take up to much space for no real reason, then there is the combined problem that i use multiple screens and the inability of those apps to let me use my screen space the way i want to.

so the microsoft store and the apps it has will never be used by me, i already have windows live mail installed over the clunky full screen affair of the metro app version that i can't resize, and pretty much all other apps it has to offer i have alternatives for that i can change at will.

this closed off area of the o/s is more harmfull than good, i often run 6-8 applications side by side split and seperated across multiple screens, when windows 8 apps can let me do that i may consider using them....maybe..no wait i won't they still have crap feature sets.

On the flip side, one can argue that you can use a bigger screen, faster processor and internet, and a full keyboard for these apps. As I see it, I enjoy using the apps because it doesn't mean I have to hunch over and stare down at my little four inch screen to browse content whereas I can use my 17 inch monitor, Touch Mouse, and wireless keyboard to view the same content, but more enjoyable.

But in the long run, I do believe there needs to be improvements to them, like more added functionality and at least being able to snap apps 50/50 versus 30/60. Why they decided to allow that type of app snap that basically will only work best with a handful of apps is beyond me.