Is Start Menu really matter?

[McButterpants]

Why do people that like Windows 8 feel the need to attack those that don't? I see it all over! Sometimes it's subtle, sometimes it's direct vile insults. If you don't like Windows 8, you're stupid, don't know what you're doing, or you're a dinosaur and have to get with the program and should like it. The original poster says "just use the search function!", "you only don't like it missing because it's some sense of security!". Aren't people students of history and understand what that type of behavior and attitude means at all?


For me, I find the Start Menu very useful. I have around(over?) 4,000 items in my Start Menu. It's very organized and when I want to find something, there it is, I find it in less than a few seconds. You tell me I should just search for it, but I say why? I have everything organized that I can find in just a few seconds. I have it how *I* need it. If you don't know how someone could have so many items in their Start Menu, then we obviously do our jobs and live our lives very differently, correct? It seems to me people, like those in this thread, want me to be just like them and live my life and get a job just like them... well, that would make me very miserable! I love my life and the way I live it.


I was looking into getting Windows 8, but I decided against it. There are many reasons why, the Start Menu is just one of them. Just as with any piece of software or computer hardware, I will buy what I need and find useful for my daily life and work. If windows 8 is not useful to me, does not add value to my daily life and how I need and want to use my computer, then why should I "get with the program and just like it" as those that like Windws 8 say. People value their own opinions too greatly to feel the need to attack, insult others, and try to push the way they do things onto others.


Is the Start Menu needed? Does it really matter? Yes, it does matter. Know why? Because it matters to *me*. *I* am not *you*. In the end, what I need on my computer is what matters, because it's my life. Microsoft, those that like Windows 8, none of them will ever have any control over what I do in my life. I find the Start Menu very useful, and I will continue to use it as I have used it. Those that do like Windows 8, that's great. It's great to have something you like to use, isn't it? Now if Microsoft gave us a choice to make the computer personal again, and gave a choice to the individual on how they want to use their computer, wouldn't that be just as wonderful?

 

[Mark Phelps]

I too have been saddened (but not surprised) by the tone of some contributors to this post that feel that anyone who likes things they don't like must be an "idiot" -- or worse.

I've been doing Computer Systems Engineering professionally for more decades than I care to mention, but what thing I have learned over the years is that "newer" is not necessarily "better" -- newer is really only "different". IF those differences are things you like, then newer = better (for YOU). If those difference are things you don't like, then newer = worse (for YOU).

Unlike McButterpants, I don't have lots of items in my Start menu ... but I use it anyway. Why? Because I have become accustomed to working that way and (most important) LIKE working that way.

I have a smartphone and like the UI on it. I would not like a "newer" version of the UI that forced me to use a stylus to select really tiny little icons -- the way you would click on items on a desktop using a mouse.

I also have a desktop and like the UI on it (on Win8, I use the "desktop" UI). I do not like the "newer" version of the UI that expects me to reach over and touch big buttons on the screen .. the way I select items on my smartphone using my finger.

All this debate about which is better is useless -- we should all just call a halt to it.

 

[FSeal]

Yeah the excuse of "use search" is so amusingly backwards and basically proves the point of the naysayers.

The fact is, Windows 7 has and has always had the /exact/ same search functionality, go ahead, try it now! Hit the windows key and start typing the name of a program.

No one on Windows 7 even knows it's there, why? Because you don't need it!!! Now here we have Windows 8 and suddenly you HAVE to use the search ("Just use the search!" "Just use the search!" "Just use the search!") because the start menu is so horrible the way it fails at arranging things in a usable way. Nice...

 

[Chrono]

I don't need to search in 8 either. It's just faster to get to the program I want, just like in 7. Honestly, everything that I've done on the desktop before, I do on the desktop now. File Explorer leads me to every single folder I need to go (just like in 7). In fact, you can basically create a little start menu right in there. Just add whatever folder you want to favorites. Every program that I use often is on my start screen, neatly arranged and quickly accessed. The only reason I need to go to All Apps is to add programs to the screen if I need to.

The Metro apps in 8 are simply an addition. They're there if you want to use them and some of them are downright convenient. The sports app is better and more convenient than getting the info through my browser. Other apps are similar in use. If you dislike switching to the Metro music app for mp3s, switch it to Media Player or whatever you usually use. You simply have more options than before. Nothing forces you to use the Metro apps.

I do admit, that when going to the All Apps screen in Metro, it seems messier than searching through the start menu in 7. Hopefully there's a better way to arrange that in the future.

 

[Ray8]

That's one thing that I don't like about the Windows 8 Modern interface, it's seems to have become much more of a keyboard based OS than Windows 7. I use the mouse a lot on my desktop and the Modern interface is not as mouse friendly/functional as Windows 7. There's another thing that I find quite bizzare and that's the fact that IE in the Modern interface has no 'Favorites' selection. If you want to see your favourite sites and other tools, you have to go to the desktop. What's the sense in that?

 

[mdmd]

There's another thing that I find quite bizzare and that's the fact that IE in the Modern interface has no 'Favorites' selection. If you want to see your favourite sites and other tools, you have to go to the desktop. What's the sense in that?

 

[Chrono]

That's one thing that I don't like about the Windows 8 Modern interface, it's seems to have become much more of a keyboard based OS than Windows 7. I use the mouse a lot on my desktop and the Modern interface is not as mouse friendly/functional as Windows 7. There's another thing that I find quite bizzare and that's the fact that IE in the Modern interface has no 'Favorites' selection. If you want to see your favourite sites and other tools, you have to go to the desktop. What's the sense in that?

Go to Metro IE and click on the address bar. Your favorites pop up on the right. As for "keyboard based", I still mainly use my mouse and get along just as well as I did in 7. That's why I don't really understand the, "8 is great for touch screens but horrible for a mouse" mentality. The mouse works just fine.

 

[mdmd]

Yeah the excuse of "use search" is so amusingly backwards and basically proves the point of the naysayers.

The fact is, Windows 7 has and has always had the /exact/ same search functionality, go ahead, try it now! Hit the win (dows key and start typing the name of a program.

No one on Windows 7 even knows it's there, why? Because you don't need it!!! Now here we have Windows 8 and suddenly you HAVE to use the search ("Just use the search!" "Just use the search!" "Just use the search!") because the start menu is so horrible the way it fails at arranging things in a usable way. Nice...

If inaccurate statements continue to be made, corrections will be made.
On the start screen, winkey is not needed to search. The start screen is not a menu (unless one considers it to be a menu). The start screen can be viewed as a menu but is more like a place to launch desktop icons.

One should know that the apps area is where programs are arranged. I know your view is that the apps area is bogus, but I disagree.

 

[Ray8]

Ok, I tried that and all I get are links from one folder and none of the others that I have in the desktop version. There's no hierarchical order to the links, it's just flat. Also, it's very hard to select a link, as all that shows is an endless line of blue squares with the site name at the bottom of each square (far too much wasted space). The drop down box method in the traditional desktop is far more effective and efficient.

My point about the less mouse-friendly nature of Windows 8 is because it now requires more use of keyboard to find things. You can't just click on the Control Panel icon and get the control panel etc, you need to type in Control Panel and find your selection, and then you go to the desktop where the mouse suddenly becomes useful again.

 

[Kat]

You can't just click on the Control Panel icon and get the control panel etc, you need to type in Control Panel and find your selection, and then you go to the desktop where the mouse suddenly becomes useful again.

Or you could just right-click on the bottom left of the desktop, and a menu
pops up with a whole lot of useful stuff, including Control Panel.

 

[mdmd]

Ok, I tried that and all I get are links from one folder and none of the others that I have in the desktop version. There's no hierarchical order to the links, it's just flat. Also, it's very hard to select a link, as all that shows is an endless line of blue squares with the site name at the bottom of each square (far too much wasted space). The drop down box method in the traditional desktop is far more effective and efficient.

My point about the less mouse-friendly nature of Windows 8 is because it now requires more use of keyboard to find things. You can't just click on the Control Panel icon and get the control panel etc, you need to type in Control Panel and find your selection, and then you go to the desktop where the mouse suddenly becomes useful again.

You see, this is where the discussion gets going. If you don't like the IE metro version, there are other metro browsers out there and then there are lots of desktop browsers. Why expect metro IE to be everything to everyone and satisfaction for all. If you don't like it try something else or learn how to use it better.

Totally disagree on less mouse friendly POV. Control Panel is available from many sources. Start Screen, apps, WinX, Charms, taskbar, desktop icon and more. 8 does not require more use of the keyboard to find things.

 

[Chrono]

You can also pin the control panel icon to the main start screen as well.

 

[Ray8]

Given that I have a lot of screen real estate on my desktop (to host visible links etc), having to look for hidden controls designed for a much smaller screen to find the same, is another example of why the Modern interface isn't ideal for everyone.

 

[mdmd]

Given that I have a lot of screen real estate on my desktop (to host visible links etc), having to look for hidden controls designed for a much smaller screen to find the same, is another example of why the Modern interface isn't ideal for everyone.

Hidden controls? OMG. Have you ever used Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Suse or Apple computers? Everything is a hunt.
From my POV, I like hidden controls. It creates a cleaner environment.

Is this better? Curious now. What is your opinion of this? You like?

 

[Ray8]

I've used Ubuntu and I'm now trying Mint (much better) and both (Ubuntu with Gnome put back in) work like Windows 7 and the menus cascade the same as in Windows 7. I prefer a minimalist approach rather than filling my screen with icons, that's why I like the start button for less used programs and the task bar for often used programs. I don't have to go left, right, bottom left, top right to find some control. But that's why I have Classic Shell enabled with Windows 8, I get the full Windows 7 user experience.

 

[mdmd]

Thanks Ray8.

I have also used the Classic Shell in the past (not with 8). It is a nice program. There are many others as well.
Sorry about the nit picking, but if anyone uses a start menu (or cascading menu), (or desktop icons)
... > they must go left or right, up or down, or along the scroll bar the same way and click or double click.
They must find the icon.

The airplane / mechanical / civil engineer is about to say the orby is more efficient...the ss takes one away from the desktop.... oh well... (I like being taken away from the desktop view - a screen saver takes one away from the desktop view) (so does a trip to the coffee machine)

If one finds tiles, the start screen or the apps area to be annoying, ugly or grotesque, inefficient, jarring, unintuitive, repugnant, wasteful, distracting, or useless, then Windows 8 will not do.

If one hides the desktop icons, then they must select to show the desktop to view them. It is a controversy on efficiency. It only takes microseconds to start screen and desktop (or thumbnails) or seconds from apps to run something. So, from my POV, 8 works very well. (not you) It is also unfair to malign an 8 user stating that they are not serious, that they are playing (not you). One could say the same about anyone or anything or the user of any Operating System. Thanks Again. Here's my minimalist approach.

 

[Ray8]

This is mine:



I have a couple of shortcuts on the screen which I use a lot, but don't want to mix with the taskbar links. I also just like to have the clock and calendar on the screen.

 

[Kat]

Mine.... Classic Start installed and Quick-Launch enabled.

Metro is NOT disabled, as I use both it and the Orb.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Your Point?

If inaccurate statements continue to be made, corrections will be made.
On the start screen, winkey is not needed to search.

"On the Start Screen, winkey is not needed to search" = "In the Start Menu, winkey is not needed to search"

 

[mdmd]

If inaccurate statements continue to be made, corrections will be made.
On the start screen, winkey is not needed to search.

"On the Start Screen, winkey is not needed to search" = "In the Start Menu, winkey is not needed to search"

Your Point?

The Start Menu has an icon or orb that must be clicked (or winkey) to see its contents and the search entry point. It's hard to describe if you do not use 8, sort of, but if you are looking at the start screen, all one need do is type a few letters and instantly something appears... no need to press enter either.

Before someone gets picky: in 7 and previous and elsewhere, you have to press enter twice:
once to initiate a search and again to execute - in 8 only once (from the start screen) ... it is only to execute a program. Of course there are other search methods (like from charms) that require (more) a typical amount of keystrokes.

Designing search for the Start screen - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

Of course there are opinions that vary about preference.
From the Microsoft blog: (you don't have to believe it - opinions vary)
These are the Microsoft statistics: