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Is Start Menu really matter?

chingNotChing

New Member
Does Start Menu really matter?

The number one complaint on Windows 8 is not having an extra UI, but the missing of the Start Menu! I can't believe how deeply the Start Menu has already been rooted into Windows users' mind.

I don't see its importance now as it might have in the old days when you only had a maximum of 1x-2x applications/ groups. Please look into Control Panel and recall the number of items there was in Windows 95. With a large number of items, when they are organized into a nested menu, it's not easily been located and requires many clicks to expand. Those how-tos would always be guiding your clicking e.g., Control Panel -> System -> Device ->... It requires your trained memory and precise mouse movements. I guess that your applications should always be more than system control settings.


Why don't you simply input your application keyword in Search?


Ubuntu, the most popular Linux distro, has taken its step to remove the Start Menu and introduced the UI Unity about 2 years ago. Although there were complaints at the early times, the users eventually realize that the Start Menu has lost its value and the new design receives more positive reviews as time goes by.


It's sad to read posts about struggling on installing back Windows 7. I think that the missing of the Start Menu hurts only some kind of a sense of security. For me, I find myself enjoying in discovering the new experience in the Metro UI and the apps built onto. It's like I'm learning something new again. What do you think?
 

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PierreHenriK

New Member
Yep, some people dislike unexpected change, especially when they don't see the immediate value to this change.
However, once you get over the initial knee-jerk reaction, I think that it is easy to get used to the way Windows 8 works.

I have seen regular people using newly bought laptops with Windows 8 as if it was Windows 7 (because they haven't learned about all the new capabilities yet), and they were quite happy with their laptops (they mostly noticed that it boot faster and that the ultrabook are much lighter than regular laptops).
 

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sgage

New Member
Member
Here we go again.

It has nothing to do with insecurity. It is not a fear of change. It is not inability to learn something new. Just give it a rest, please.

I've been in the computer biz for 30 years now, and have been "learning something new" that entire time, because the payoff was clear. Not so much this go 'round.

I am a desktop user, not a touchy/mobile user, so that's where I'm coming from. The Metro search function a) fails to find what I need a good percentage of the time and b) entails a yank to Metro-land that is jarring and unappreciated. Fortunately, there are many ways around it, so mere lack of start menu is not a show-stopper. No need to revert to Win7.

So you do your thing your way, and I'll do my thing my way.

Peace.
 

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sgage

New Member
Member
Yep, some people dislike unexpected change, especially when they don't see the immediate value to this change.
However, once you get over the initial knee-jerk reaction, I think that it is easy to get used to the way Windows 8 works.

I have seen regular people using newly bought laptops with Windows 8 as if it was Windows 7 (because they haven't learned about all the new capabilities yet), and they were quite happy with their laptops (they mostly noticed that it boot faster and that the ultrabook are much lighter than regular laptops).

But it's not a knee-jerk reaction - I've been using Win8 since the first Developer Preview, and every release since. Fortunately, it is easy to implement a start menu (for those of us who like the under-the-hood improvements, but use Desktop exclusively). There is this constant and recurring implication here that anyone who doesn't love everything about Win8/Metro/Start Screen is somehow insecure, frightened, mentally deficient, or jerking their knees, and I wish it would end.
 

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Mustang

New Member
Member
@sgage Unfortunately it will never end. People who post generic, emotive, presumptuous, unsubstantiated statements will always be there.

It's good you posted a rational, balanced response so that newcomers can see a reasoned approach to such whimsical thinking.

However, IMO, under normal circumstances, the best advice is that given by SIW2:

SIW2 said:
I don't know why you bothered to rise to the bait, Mustang

I have done a couple of posts, here and here, showing in detail my setup on W7 GUI and challenged anyone to show me how W8 in native format could do the job more efficiently, and no one has offered a response ... because there isn't one! Mechanically speaking, as opposed to personal preference, an alpha numeric cascaded start menu is more efficient than a tile one ... both in space and functionality.
 

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PierreHenriK

New Member
My reply was probably too simplistic for a topic so dependent on personal preference and experience.

The point I was trying to make is that Windows can work on a regular laptop, as you have been able to experience in your own way.
 
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Mustang

New Member
Member
My reply was probably too simplistic for a topic so dependent on personal preference and experience.

The point I was trying to make is that Windows can work on a regular laptop, as you have been able to experience in your own way.
No one ever denied it could be made to do everything W7 GUI can do, but for desktop work it's not mechanically as efficient.

For smartfone, tablet, yes. Totally different scenario. And if people like it better, yes, go for it. But don't knock people who dont' because it's simply not the best for certain applications.

And to prove I'm not a hater, I paid $149 ($Aust) for W8 Pro OEM on disk from a retail shop, and am currently running it on my backup desktop in native format for the next few months to see if it can be made to work as efficently or better. If it's better I will keep it, but so far that hasn't happened, despite following all the posts and tips given on this forum by those who use Metro.
 

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pparks1

Well-Known Member
VIP Member
Guru
It's more than just being afraid of change, I'd it were that, I would not have even tried Windows 8.

Unintuitive and awkward are the best terms I have for describing Windows 8. Got a call from my dad, who was helping a friend who just bought a new laptop with Windows 8. Both of them have over 30 years experience with computers and have used every version of Windows, including versions before 3.1. Their problem, neither could figure out how to shut down the computer without simply pressing the power button on the computer. Both were convinced I was pulling their leg when I explained how to do it via the charms menu.

Some like Windows 8, some dislike it, but I think most are simply tolerating it.
 

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sgage

New Member
Member
@sgage Unfortunately it will never end. People who post generic, emotive, presumptuous, unsubstantiated statements will always be there.

It's good you posted a rational, balanced response so that newcomers can see a reasoned approach to such whimsical thinking.

However, IMO, under normal circumstances, the best advice is that given by SIW2:

SIW2 said:
I don't know why you bothered to rise to the bait, Mustang

I have done a couple of posts, here and here, showing in detail my setup on W7 GUI and challenged anyone to show me how W8 in native format could do the job more efficiently, and no one has offered a response ... because there isn't one! Mechanically speaking, as opposed to personal preference, an alpha numeric cascaded start menu is more efficient than a tile one ... both in space and functionality.

Ah, rising to the bait! A weakness, I'll admit. I resist it much of the time, but when it just starts piling on I get reckless :)
 

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Mustang

New Member
Member
Ah, rising to the bait! A weakness, I'll admit. I resist it much of the time, but when it just starts piling on I get reckless :)
Yeah me too! I'm a sucker for the three card trick, and unfortunaely sometimes rise to the bait like a moth to the flame!
:doh::thumbsup:
 

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LovingWindows

New Member
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Power User
People whined and complained when Windows 95 came out and introduced the Start Menu.
People whining and complaining when Windows 8 came out with Metro/Modern UI.
People will whine and complain the next time Microsoft makes a change to the Windows UI.
 

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Kat

Banned
People whined and complained when Windows 95 came out and introduced the Start Menu.
People whining and complaining when Windows 8 came out with Metro/Modern UI.
People will whine and complain the next time Microsoft makes a change to the Windows UI.

And people who insist that we're simply whining and complaining will be studiously ignored.

Just as they were then.

Our opinions are at least as valid as anyone else's.
 

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Mustang

New Member
Member
People whined and complained when Windows 95 came out and introduced the Start Menu.
People whining and complaining when Windows 8 came out with Metro/Modern UI.
People will whine and complain the next time Microsoft makes a change to the Windows UI.
So what does that prove? And how does it help people on the forum? Unless it's a W8 promo!
 

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SIW2

Well-Known Member
Team Member
I think the problem arises from misunderstanding.

There is a concept it is all about a missing start menu.

It isn't.

The missing start menu is a symptom of the problem.

The problem is that MS is trying to force the start screen on users. They know what the users want - but they have ignored it and tried to force what MS wants.

MS are doing that to try and lure the users to their online services. They are doing it by shoving the start screen and the accompanying metro UI at users at every opportunity.

If they had allowed boot direct to desktop and the start menu as default for desktop users - those desktop usability complaints would not be there.

There wouldd still be consistency across devices - whichever UI you are in still looks the same across devices. The difference being which is default and which you use mostly - that depends on the device you are using.

The start menu itself is just a part of that. It is a very efficient way of navigating in a desktop environment - it's not the only way - if you prefer your own navigation methods - fine. But vast numbers like and use the start menu.

The reason that was removed is the same - to push the start screen in your face - even if you clearly want to use the desktop.

Of course, those who are beyond beginners can find their own workarounds/3rd party programs/whatever - but that isn't the point.

How it comes out of the box will be what Joe public gets - and that is what reviews are based on.
 

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sgage

New Member
Member
People whined and complained when Windows 95 came out and introduced the Start Menu.
People whining and complaining when Windows 8 came out with Metro/Modern UI.
People will whine and complain the next time Microsoft makes a change to the Windows UI.

Oh please, here we go YET AGAIN. I really, really resent having my criticisms of Metro, which are from the point of view of a Desktop user, and based on many months of working with the thing, characterized as 'whining'.
 

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symbiont

Member
Member
Why don't you simply input your application keyword in Search?

If it really is just this one simple thing that you think people are reacting to, then by your logic one could just install Launchy in Win7 and have everything they need from 8. Why tout the stupid search as even a near top feature when it's been around for YEARS with the use of third party software?..big deal - as usual M$ is a day late and a dollar short, along with almost every other "feature".

And yet they STILL can't get multi monitor support correct.
 

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lehnerus2000

Power User
VIP Member
Power User
Used to be #1


Ubuntu, the most popular Linux distro, has taken its step to remove the Start Menu and introduced the UI Unity about 2 years ago. Although there were complaints at the early times, the users eventually realize that the Start Menu has lost its value and the new design receives more positive reviews as time goes by.

Ubuntu used to be the #1 Linux distro.
Since they introduced "Unity", Ubuntu has dropped from its #1 position.

Most of the articles I've read suggest that Linux Mint is now #1.

IMO:
  • "Unity" is awful (although it is still better than Metro).
  • Linux Mint (MATE) is better than Ubuntu.

Why don't you simply input your application keyword in Search?

If it really is just this one simple thing that you think people are reacting to, then by your logic one could just install Launchy in Win7 and have everything they need from 8. Why tout the stupid search as even a near top feature when it's been around for YEARS with the use of third party software?..big deal - as usual M$ is a day late and a dollar short, along with almost every other "feature".

And yet they STILL can't get multi monitor support correct.

Windows 7 already has search in the Start Menu (Click and Type).
 
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symbiont

Member
Member
And yet they STILL can't get multi monitor support correct.

Actually, the multi monitor support is improved.

Multi-Monitor Support from Windows 8 - Everything Microsoft | Leading Unofficial Microsoft Site

Ya I've read the propaganda, I'm not looking for "improved". I'm looking for "multi display has been around for 10 years I finally have everything I need so I don't need to run 3rd party apps"...you know like something as primitive as being able to put a clock/systray on the 2nd taskbar.
 

My Computer

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  • OS
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mdmd

Closed as requested
Oops: It's WinKEY Pg-UP and Pg-DN: (to flip screens in extended mode)
You want a clock/systray on both taskbars in extended mode?

Windows-8-Multi-Monitor-Support-on-Steroids-2.jpg

note: this is not my system in the pic. Curious, there is another around here that needs 6 monitors ! yikes,
oh well, I have enough with 1. (Oh, but I do have my system set to duplicate, and sending videos to a larger monitor)
 
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