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Solved Is Intel embedded GPU the same as a graphics card?


crimson

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#21
It will not be detected as a discrete graphics card because it isn't. Will such graphics be adequate for any specific game?
????
This is completely contradictory information again. If it's not detected, then the game won't play. So how can you proceed to talk about graphics comparisons between a card that is detected, and a GPU that isn't. You can't test FPS if a game won't run.

I don't understand all these contradictory answers. I explained from the very start, that certain games who require a graphics card to be installed won't run at all on systems with older Intel chips with no GPU. Why? Because it requires an actual graphics card to be installed. So I'm not sure what you're talking about.

This is not a comparison between which is better between one GPU vs another. It's a question about whether or not a game will see the Intel integrated GPU as a graphics card. You can take your entire description, and treat it as if your'e comparing a higher-end graphics card to a lower-end graphics cad instead of Intel integrated GPU. The whole point is that if a game plays better on a modern day graphics card than off of the Intel GPU, it means that it still plays off of the Intel GPU. Thereby treating it as it would treat a lower-end graphics card.

The question isn't that complicated. Will it detect the GPU in the chip as a graphics card or not? If so, then the game will run even though it might run better if a higher-end graphics card is installed. If not, then the game won't run at all, and a graphics card will need to be installed.

This is a simple example (forget about higher-end games for this):
An older game specifies a minimum requirement for a graphics card that is lower-end than the GPU in a modern day Intel chip.

1. On a system with older Intel CPU with no integrated GPU - that game will not run. Therefore a graphics card must be installed.


2. On a system with an Intel chip that has a GPU which is higher-end than the minimum graphics specifications required for that game.

a. If the game sees the Intel GPU as a graphics card, then it will recognize it as a card that is better than the one it requires. Therefore it will run.

b. If the game doesn't recognize the Intel GPU as a graphics card, then it will see that no graphics card of at least minimum spec has been installed. Thus, just like the older Intel CPU with no GPU, the game won't run.

All I'm seeing is people saying that it won't work. Then going on comparing it to a modern day graphics card as if it did work. As if comparing an a lower-end graphics card to a higher-end one. The problem is, when installing a lower-end graphics card, the game might not work as well as it would with a higher-end graphics card, but it would still work.

Again, this is not about what's better or what's worse between lower-end graphics and higher-end graphics. This is talking about whether or not an Intel GPU is going to read as a graphics card for games that required a graphics card to be installed period. Regardless if it's a low end graphics card. If it does, then just like a lower-end graphics card, a game might not run as well as higher-end graphics card installed. That's fine. We know that games run better on higher-end graphics card than lower-end ones. So who cares about FPS? All I'm saying is that a game reads a lower-end graphics card, and still plays. Therefore, if the integrated graphics in the chip is treated as a graphics card, then the game would play without need for any graphics card to be installed.
 
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LMiller7

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#22
An Intel integrated GPU, regardless of it's performance, will NOT be recognized as a discrete graphics card.
This has been stated multiple times.
 

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crimson

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#23
An Intel integrated GPU, regardless of it's performance, will NOT be recognized as a discrete graphics card.
This has been stated multiple times.
Yet it has been stated multiple times that it will. Including people comparing the graphics of games between running it off of an integrated GPU to running off of a graphics card. If it will not be recognize, then all these people making all these comparisons is not possible.

So where's somebody who actually knows what they're talking about who can give an actual legitimate answer?
 

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jimbo45

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#24
Hi there

The best answer to your question (well really TWO answers).

1) Contact INTEL / AMD development / product people.
2) Contact Game developer

These seem to be the best source of information for your query -- I think most people couldn't really be bothered so long as the Game actually plays. Nothing wrong of course in being curious --information is never wasted - although you might be surprised in the cases where information requested for one topic is found to be very useful in another unexpected and totally unrelated area.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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basher

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#25
The answer is yes, with intel graphics you can play at least 10 year old (or older) games, like diablo 2 :) But have in mind, that intel graphics are integrated, so it depends on your cpu power to run, so having as fast cpu as possible is a way improve performance if you are amd/nvidia hater and dont want to get a good graphics card for games. Also it uses ram for its video ram, so having dual/triple channel ram plus as fast ram as your cpu and motherboard supports will also increase performance.
 

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crimson

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#26
The answer is yes, with intel graphics you can play at least 10 year old (or older) games, like diablo 2 :) But have in mind, that intel graphics are integrated, so it depends on your cpu power to run, so having as fast cpu as possible is a way improve performance if you are amd/nvidia hater and dont want to get a good graphics card for games. Also it uses ram for its video ram, so having dual/triple channel ram plus as fast ram as your cpu and motherboard supports will also increase performance.
OK so the games will see it like a graphics card? Because some people say it doesn't.

I know for a fact that some games will either have a more difficult time running if there is a graphics card installed that isn't good enough. But the point is that the game still recognizes that a graphics card is installed, and will be able to play somewhat.

Therefore, if even a higher-end game such as Diablo 3 or whatever modern game is out recognizes the integrated graphics in the Intel chip the say way it recognizes a graphics card, then the game will be able to play even though it might play at a lower quality.

If the game doesn't recognize the integrated graphics as a graphics card, then the game won't be able to play at all.

According to this old video here, games seem to recognize integrated graphics like a graphics card:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArDDs8SEsjE
 

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CountMike

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#27
I dont know about Intel but GPU in AMD APU processors behave same as with discrete video cards with same GPU and altough there are drivers explicitly for APU ordinary AMD drivers work just as well. So, games should recognize it as discrete card.
 

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basher

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#28
Its not about recognizing gpu, because all games should recognize all gpus, including intel graphics. Basically all the games should run on intel graphics, as most games doesnt care what graphics you have (maybe there is some very specific games that doesnt allow to be played on intel graphics, but i dont know any of them), games only checks for some gpu hardware features, like vertex shaders version, directx/opengl version support and so on, and because newer intel graphics support for those features is good, most games should run. Now, second thing is, what performance do you need to play the games ? what games you will play ? I saw how sandy bridge (intel hd 2000 - 3000) runs the games, so i would say that having at least ivy bridge intel graphics is required to run newer games at decent performance, And beware, that intel graphics performance depends on your cpu and ram, so having core i7 cpu and 8 gb dual channel ram is highly recommended.
 

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crimson

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#29
Its not about recognizing gpu, because all games should recognize all gpus, including intel graphics. Basically all the games should run on intel graphics, as most games doesnt care what graphics you have (maybe there is some very specific games that doesnt allow to be played on intel graphics, but i dont know any of them), games only checks for some gpu hardware features, like vertex shaders version, directx/opengl version support and so on, and because newer intel graphics support for those features is good, most games should run. Now, second thing is, what performance do you need to play the games ? what games you will play ? I saw how sandy bridge (intel hd 2000 - 3000) runs the games, so i would say that having at least ivy bridge intel graphics is required to run newer games at decent performance, And beware, that intel graphics performance depends on your cpu and ram, so having core i7 cpu and 8 gb dual channel ram is highly recommended.
The performance is irrelevant. There are games that won't play period unless a graphics card is installed. Which is why older chips like Core2 Duo or Core2 Quad don't matter. If there's no card installed, the game with system requirements for a card won't play.
 

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CountMike

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#30
Its not about recognizing gpu, because all games should recognize all gpus, including intel graphics. Basically all the games should run on intel graphics, as most games doesnt care what graphics you have (maybe there is some very specific games that doesnt allow to be played on intel graphics, but i dont know any of them), games only checks for some gpu hardware features, like vertex shaders version, directx/opengl version support and so on, and because newer intel graphics support for those features is good, most games should run. Now, second thing is, what performance do you need to play the games ? what games you will play ? I saw how sandy bridge (intel hd 2000 - 3000) runs the games, so i would say that having at least ivy bridge intel graphics is required to run newer games at decent performance, And beware, that intel graphics performance depends on your cpu and ram, so having core i7 cpu and 8 gb dual channel ram is highly recommended.
The performance is irrelevant. There are games that won't play period unless a graphics card is installed. Which is why older chips like Core2 Duo or Core2 Quad don't matter. If there's no card installed, the game with system requirements for a card won't play.
Ok, Ok, but which ones are like that ?
 

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basher

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#31
Well, thats not true, games checks only for gpu or hardware features, it doesnt matter what you have, geforce titan gtx or intel hd 4000, and because intel graphics supports many features high versions, games will run. At most there is 1 or 2 retarded games on this planet that checks for gpu model, not gpu features. Intel hd graphics first generation (ironlake) with i3 cpu runs call of duty modern warfare 3 just fine, and intel hd 2000 (sandy bridge) with i3 cpu can run gta4 just fine too. You can always check youtube for "intel hd xxxx game name" to get a prove, that the game RUNS on your intel hd graphics.
 

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crimson

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#32
Its not about recognizing gpu, because all games should recognize all gpus, including intel graphics. Basically all the games should run on intel graphics, as most games doesnt care what graphics you have (maybe there is some very specific games that doesnt allow to be played on intel graphics, but i dont know any of them), games only checks for some gpu hardware features, like vertex shaders version, directx/opengl version support and so on, and because newer intel graphics support for those features is good, most games should run. Now, second thing is, what performance do you need to play the games ? what games you will play ? I saw how sandy bridge (intel hd 2000 - 3000) runs the games, so i would say that having at least ivy bridge intel graphics is required to run newer games at decent performance, And beware, that intel graphics performance depends on your cpu and ram, so having core i7 cpu and 8 gb dual channel ram is highly recommended.
The performance is irrelevant. There are games that won't play period unless a graphics card is installed. Which is why older chips like Core2 Duo or Core2 Quad don't matter. If there's no card installed, the game with system requirements for a card won't play.
Ok, Ok, but which ones are like that ?
What do you mean? What games won't play without a graphics card installed? If you don't know, then you probably don't know what you're talking about. So many games will not play whatsoever without a graphics card installed.
 

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Zivanias

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#33
I do quite a bit of gaming on an HD 4000. It sustains playable framerates -for casual gamers- @1920*1080 even in modern games, often at mid-high quality settings -if coded decently. I don't recall coming across many titles -if any- that outright barred this iGPU from running their engine. There were however some that dished admonitions about the small amount of memory assigned to it; as this is dynamically managed according to system needs, it can be anything between 16MB-~1GB. Other than that, there are of course the usual hyped titles still getting away with the nastiness of precluding the user from disabling antialiasing -that horrid computing cycle black hole-, but overall I have a very satisfying gaming experience powered by integrated graphics.
 

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popeye

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#34
I do quite a bit of gaming on an HD 4000. It sustains playable framerates -for casual gamers- @1920*1080 even in modern games, often at mid-high quality settings -if coded decently. I don't recall coming across many titles -if any- that outright barred this iGPU from running their engine. There were however some that dished admonitions about the small amount of memory assigned to it; as this is dynamically managed according to system needs, it can be anything between 16MB-~1GB. Other than that, there are of course the usual hyped titles still getting away with the nastiness of precluding the user from disabling antialiasing -that horrid computing cycle black hole-, but overall I have a very satisfying gaming experience powered by integrated graphics.
I totally agree about the anti-aliasing thing......total BS.
 

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crimson

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#36
SOLVED:

It's the same thing on every forum of the Internet. There are so many times I've asked a sincere question, and everybody considers it answered, but there's no actual answer.

So I finally found decent data on this question.

When games list minimum system requirements, they will put a certain "brand" of card. Such as saying "nVidia 4000 or better" as a minimum system requirement. In the past, Intel had no GPU in their processor. When you try to put a game in without a graphics card installed, the game just wouldn't run.

It actually has nothing to do with the graphics card per say. It has to do with DirectX and GPU performance specifications. I'll give an example with Nintendo, Xbox, Playstation. When developers make a game for a console, they can't just make a game, and put it on different types of media that the console accepts. Such as making a movie, and putting on DVD and Blu-Ray. They have to code the game specifically for that console.

Graphics cards operate in the same way. Let's pretend DirectX doesn't exist. Then take any multiple number of different graphics card manufacturers. Well just like having to code games for different consoles, developers would have to code games specifically for each graphics card manufacturers.

So if Manufacturer-A releases a set of 4 graphics cards with different performance specifications, it would be the equivalent of releasing 4 different Xbox consoles with different performance specifications. A game developed for Xbox would work on all 4 different Xbox consoles, but perhaps some games would have a hard time or not work at all on an Xbox of lower specification. Either way, the game wouldn't work on a Playstation.

Likewise, games developed for Manufacturer-A would work with all 4 of their graphics cards, but perhaps might not work as well or at all on lower-end cards of the series. And also in the same way, they wouldn't work if a graphics card from Manufacturer-B is installed.

And also likewise, Xbox might release a new generation console that older generation games won't play on. A card manufacturer might release a new generation card that won't play games developed for their previous generation card.


So what happened with computer gaming was the advent of DirectX and OpenGL. Now instead of game developers having to code their games to work on cards from a specific manufacturer, they would just code their games for one of these 2 APIs. And any number of GPU manufacturers can implement the specifications for either or both of the APIs onto their GPUs.

So if a developer codes a game on MS DirectX-8 api, then any Windows computer with DirectX-8 installed would be able to run it as long as the computer has a DirectX-8 compatible graphics accelerator (GPU) from any manufacturer.

And releasing DirectX 9, 10, 11 is the same thing as releasing new generation consoles such as Playstation 2, 3, 4.

So a game like Diablo 3 won't run unless a DirectX-9 compatible GPU of a certain performance specification is installed. And the GPU integrated into newer Intel and AMD chips function exactly the same way as GPU from any graphics card.

If a GPU has the version of DirectX and proper performance specification that is compatible with the game, then it is irrelevant whether the GPU is on a dedicated card or integrated into the processor.

The minimum system requirement for a game is never about having a card installed. It's about having a GPU with compatible API and performance specifications. Of course different games have varying nuances depending on which GPU they're playing off of. However, the general idea is that when it comes to minimum game requirements, a GPU integrated into a chip is completely comparable to a GPU on a graphics card. It's not about looking at whether or not a card is installed. It's all about looking at the API and performance.

For example, I have a processor with integrated GPU that supports DirectX-11. If a computer has a dedicated DX11 graphics card with similar performance as the GPU in my chip, then the game will treat both similarly.
 

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