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Solved Is Intel embedded GPU the same as a graphics card?


crimson

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#1
Many game system requirements say that a discrete graphics card needs to be installed in order to play.

For example, even Diablo 3 which isn't that intensive wouldn't play on my friend's desktop computer until he installed a nVidia graphics card. Then it played perfectly. Even though he has a Core 2 Quad which came out before the Intel i-series chips.

Well I noticed that newer Intel i-series chips have the GPU embedded into the processor. Like on my Surface Pro 3 i5. Does this work the same way as if you had a discrete nVidia card installed? Meaning games with the requirement for an independent graphics card would work without need to install an independent graphics card?

Because alot of game requirements list the need for a nVidia or AMD graphics card. But don't specify anything about GPU embedded into the Intel chip as an alternative.
 

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loveandpower

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#2
by gpu embedded I would have to assume motherboard integrated is what you are referring to? integrated gpu's don't have video memory specifically for graphics so they aren't nearly as specific nor will they dependently focus on gaming/video performance.

It's sort of like with older laptops you can have a "dual core laptop" man back in the day we thought that was the new hit! In reality though without a dedicated card it might be able to run a game on low settings ( just maybe) but it won't do much more than that.
 

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jimbo45

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#3
by gpu embedded I would have to assume motherboard integrated is what you are referring to? integrated gpu's don't have video memory specifically for graphics so they aren't nearly as specific nor will they dependently focus on gaming/video performance.

It's sort of like with older laptops you can have a "dual core laptop" man back in the day we thought that was the new hit! In reality though without a dedicated card it might be able to run a game on low settings ( just maybe) but it won't do much more than that.

Hi there.

Actually that's not quite true - some Integrated graphics can (and usually do) reserve some RAM - it depends on how the graphics is integrated into the main BIOS.

Unless you are an extreme gamer the standard graphics integrated into most modern laptops or even decent MOBO'S is more than fit for purpose - as is integrated SOUND.

Only you as the user know exactly what you need - but the bog standard graphics in most modern machines is certainly more than enough for the average user.

(Decent Mobo's also allow you to disable the internal onboard graphics if you want to supply your own though).

Usually the point of an external GPU is to off load a lot of the video rendering from the main CPU and Bus enabling games which need the ultimate performance in video processing to work to peak efficiency -- however with decent powerful multi core processors (such as Intel i7) it could be a moot point as to whether this type of hardware is needed any more -- newer onboard systems are already preparing for the 4K video display standard.

Hardware even a few years old is really light years behind modern design -- who now needs a separate Audio card for their computers -- even laptops with HDMI digital sound can drive decent equipment --in fact most computer speakers etc sound HORRIBLE anyway that the integrated sound system is years ahead of the capability of what you can actually HEAR on typical consumer computer speaker systems.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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popeye

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#4
My integrated i-5 HD4000 graphics plays many modern games well enough. Don't know about Diablo 3 though. I think the problem comes in if the game coders integrate a routine to check for discrete video before installing or loading the game.

Found this, not impressive for Diablo 3:

diablo31080p.png
 

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LMiller7

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#5
Intel embedded GPU is a cost effective way of providing reasonable graphics performance without the need of a discrete graphics card. For many uses this is more than adequate. But gaming level performance is far beyond it's capability. For anything beyond limited gaming you will still need a discrete graphics card.
 

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popeye

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#6
Intel embedded GPU is a cost effective way of providing reasonable graphics performance without the need of a discrete graphics card. For many uses this is more than adequate. But gaming level performance is far beyond it's capability. For anything beyond limited gaming you will still need a discrete graphics card.
Yea, really the bottom line if into serious gaming.
 

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loveandpower

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#7
Intel embedded GPU is a cost effective way of providing reasonable graphics performance without the need of a discrete graphics card. For many uses this is more than adequate. But gaming level performance is far beyond it's capability. For anything beyond limited gaming you will still need a discrete graphics card.
Yea, really the bottom line if into serious gaming.
Yep, pretty much what I was trying to explain. Even I statd that you can play modern day games just don't expect ultra settings etc. As a gamer myself, you should always try to get the most details for the money you spent but again that's just me.

As far as integrated graphics go you get what you pay for. Don't expect the best, lower needed resourced games play perfectly.There just wont be high texture counts, good aliasing, etc
 

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crimson

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#8
No. What mobo? I said:
GPU embedded into the processor.
It doesn't matter if you have a computer with a new graphics card or an old graphics card. The game might run much better on a higher-end graphics card than a lower-end one. That's not the point. The point is about minimum system requirements that list a certain graphics card or better. A minimum graphics card required to run the game fine, even though a higher-end one will run it better. So the question was not about a minimum graphics card vs a higher-end one.

Nor was it about motherboard embedded graphics that will not be enough for games that require an independent graphics card to be installed.

It's about integrated graphics in the chip. The question was whether or not the GPU that is embedded in Intel i-series chips in recent years is treated as an independent graphics card. Meaning games would treat it exactly as if independent graphics card was installed. Thereby, fulfilling the minimum system requirement that a decent graphics card is installed.

Simply, is the GPU embedded in recent Intel i-series chips basically the same thing as having a decent independent graphics card?
 

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pparks1

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#9
Gamers don't use embedded graphics, but average people do who play a few games.

When people are on a desktop I advise to try embedded and if it works, great. If not, plan to replace it with a real card later.
 

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loveandpower

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#10
There are some very barebone dedicated cards out there such as the 7750 or the 610 that are indeed around the same specs as a HD 3000/HD 4000. According to benchmark results in some games the dedicated card would run faster compared to some games where the integrated chip would.
 

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LMiller7

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#11
Simply, is the GPU embedded in recent Intel i-series chips basically the same thing as having a decent independent graphics card?
No

Having the GPU in the CPU is just one way of implementing integrated graphics (there are others) and software will see it as such. It will only match the performance of a relatively low end discrete graphics card.
 

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CountMike

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#12
AMD, APU processors for FM2 socket (Ax.xxxx), generally have better processor imbedded graphics than Intel counterparts. They even have similar designation as discrete GPUs from AMD but even they don't have same performance as discrete ones. There's a bit of silver cloud lining there, some of combinations can be made to work together in a kind of Crossfire mode and so boost performance of either one. AMD A10-7770K (Kaveri) should work (in theory) with HD7770 based video cards.
 

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crimson

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#13
Simply, is the GPU embedded in recent Intel i-series chips basically the same thing as having a decent independent graphics card?
No

Having the GPU in the CPU is just one way of implementing integrated graphics (there are others) and software will see it as such. It will only match the performance of a relatively low end discrete graphics card.
Some games don't require a high-end graphics card. So the question is about games that require a graphics card. Not necessarily high-end graphics card. Even games that require low-end card still need a graphics card to be physically installed or else they won't run.
 

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jimbo45

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#14
Hi there.

OK I assume the OP simply wants to know is embedded GPU same a s graphics card. The Older way was to have a separate ROM on the MOBO which wasn't the answer wanted. These days with miniaturisation and lower power requirements this functionality can now be built into a SINGLE "Chip" - the processor. It functions totally as a "Classic GPU" but of course the price paid for integrating all this into a single chip is that it's likely not to be as functional as a fully fledged external discrete specialized GPU which has its own RAM (usually).

For non gamers the video quality is usually good enough these days - whether it will be OK for 4K movies we'll have to see but certainly for 90% of Non gamers out there this is perfectly acceptable.

Whether or not the "integrated" GPU has its own RAM or shares RAM with the OS is dependant on how the GPU hardware is integrated with the CPU -- INTEL probably can supply decent technical specs on that if you are interested. Video producers as well as gamers might still prefer dedicated Video cards as well as others needing hard core 3-D effects etc but for the mainstream buying an external GPU card is as pointless as using separate audio cards too.

As for some games requiring a separate GPU in order to run could be true but it saddens me to see programs being written that try and get BEHIND the OS rather than use API's and provided hooks - as this can often cause hideous problems when people upgrade their hardware or the OS.

In general it's NOT good programming practice to directly (not via OS API's) interrogate the hardware -- that's a classic way VIRUSES can gain admittance to your system. I know it's done to squeeze the ultimate performance out of the machine but it's still bad programming practice. The video drivers should all integrate correctly with the hardware using proper published interfaces - but I don't suppose that will ever happen. !!!

In an Ideal world the game could boot up running it's own OS -- but of course that would increase the cost of the game far too much to be a sensible suggestion !!!

Final point -- If you've got a 64 bit capable machine then the RAM addressing in the GPU doesn't have to be dependent on the amount installed in the basic machine. The GPU will handle its own RAM and addressing schemes - can be 2 /4 GB or whatever even when running a 32 Bit OS the GPU can do all its own memory address translations so the normal 4GB max addressing for a 32 bit OS isn't a restriction. This point about separate GPU RAM isn't normally mentioned but it is important on 32 bit systems. However these days fewer and fewer people run games on 32 bit OS'es - and all modern machines (or even those several years old) are 64 bit capable.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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crimson

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#15
No the question was about the GPU in the processor.

Like certain games have requirements for graphics card. Even if it's a low-end graphics card. So it wouldn't run on a normal computer like my friend has an old Core 2 Quad. But newer generation Intel processors have GPU integrated in them. So maybe such games that require an independent vid card will see treat the integrated graphics in the Intel chip as one.

Some game system requirements specify low-end graphics card for minimum requirements. Such as NVIDIA GeForce 260. But it still means you would need to install a graphics card. Meaning, a Core 2 Quad alone still won't be able to play it. You would need to install a low-end DX-9,10, or 11 graphics card. The question was about newer Intel chips that have the GPU intergrated. If the game would see it as a graphics card so you wouldn't have to install one.
 

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popeye

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#16
No the question was about the GPU in the processor.

Like certain games have requirements for graphics card. Even if it's a low-end graphics card. So it wouldn't run on a normal computer like my friend has an old Core 2 Quad. But newer generation Intel processors have GPU integrated in them. So maybe such games that require an independent vid card will see treat the integrated graphics in the Intel chip as one.

Some game system requirements specify low-end graphics card for minimum requirements. Such as NVIDIA GeForce 260. But it still means you would need to install a graphics card. Meaning, a Core 2 Quad alone still won't be able to play it. You would need to install a low-end DX-9,10, or 11 graphics card. The question was about newer Intel chips that have the GPU intergrated. If the game would see it as a graphics card so you wouldn't have to install one.
Crimson, the bottom line is nobody knows the answer for every game out there. It is a try and see kind of thing. One of the reasons they publish demos. The thing is, if a publisher says dedicated card and doesn't say it may work on something like HD4000 integrated graphics, then I wouldn't count on it working.
 

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IanDrexP

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#17
Is an Intel CPU with Integrated graphics the same with a APU from AMD? In the way that the cores/chip/etc. is found on the processor itself?
 

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LMiller7

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#18
No the question was about the GPU in the processor.

Like certain games have requirements for graphics card. Even if it's a low-end graphics card. So it wouldn't run on a normal computer like my friend has an old Core 2 Quad. But newer generation Intel processors have GPU integrated in them. So maybe such games that require an independent vid card will see treat the integrated graphics in the Intel chip as one.

Some game system requirements specify low-end graphics card for minimum requirements. Such as NVIDIA GeForce 260. But it still means you would need to install a graphics card. Meaning, a Core 2 Quad alone still won't be able to play it. You would need to install a low-end DX-9,10, or 11 graphics card. The question was about newer Intel chips that have the GPU intergrated. If the game would see it as a graphics card so you wouldn't have to install one.
An Intel with integrated GPU, or one from AMD, regardless of it's capabilities or performance, is still integrated graphics. It will not be detected as a discrete graphics card because it isn't. Will such graphics be adequate for any specific game? A difficult question for which there are no easy answers.

Games evaluate the graphics capabilities of a computer in a wide variety of ways. There are no firm standards for this, only guidelines and they are frequently ignored. Some do this intelligently, others do not. Some games evaluate integrated graphics on the basis of merit, others look only for a discrete card. If a game wants a discrete card it will fail if none is present, no matter how powerful the integrated graphics might be.

If it works, great. If it doesn't, it doesn't.
 

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popeye

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#19
I think the horse is dead.
 

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IanDrexP

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#20
No the question was about the GPU in the processor.

Like certain games have requirements for graphics card. Even if it's a low-end graphics card. So it wouldn't run on a normal computer like my friend has an old Core 2 Quad. But newer generation Intel processors have GPU integrated in them. So maybe such games that require an independent vid card will see treat the integrated graphics in the Intel chip as one.

Some game system requirements specify low-end graphics card for minimum requirements. Such as NVIDIA GeForce 260. But it still means you would need to install a graphics card. Meaning, a Core 2 Quad alone still won't be able to play it. You would need to install a low-end DX-9,10, or 11 graphics card. The question was about newer Intel chips that have the GPU intergrated. If the game would see it as a graphics card so you wouldn't have to install one.
An Intel with integrated GPU, or one from AMD, regardless of it's capabilities or performance, is still integrated graphics. It will not be detected as a discrete graphics card because it isn't. Will such graphics be adequate for any specific game? A difficult question for which there are no easy answers.

Games evaluate the graphics capabilities of a computer in a wide variety of ways. There are no firm standards for this, only guidelines and they are frequently ignored. Some do this intelligently, others do not. Some games evaluate integrated graphics on the basis of merit, others look only for a discrete card. If a game wants a discrete card it will fail if none is present, no matter how powerful the integrated graphics might be.

If it works, great. If it doesn't, it doesn't.
To add, the only way to know if a GPU or Integrated Graphics works or is playable with a game is to test it and measure its FPS. This also isnt the end because it also depends on other factors like specific hardware configuration, video settings and more. A higher memory buffer, shaders, DX compatibility or etc. of a GPU/Integrated Graphics does not mean better gaming performance in any game. ACTUAL TESTS DOES :)
 

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    Bitdefender Total Security 2015
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    Microsoft Office Professional Plus 2013 | 1 x Combo Audio Jack |1 x VGA port | 1 x USB 3.0 | 2 x USB 2.0 | 1 x RJ45 | 1 x HDMI | 1 x SD/SDHC/SDXC/MMC Card Reader | Integrated 802.11 b/g/n WiFi | Bluetooth 4.0+ HS | 10/100 Base T | 30.3 x 20.0 x 2.17 cm | 3.08 lbs | For School and General Use

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