Eliminate overbearing administrator permission requests?

[gavin19]

I can agree that inherited permissions may be a factor on newly created folders, but I'm referring to standard system/user folders on a clean system. For example, in Windows 7 I can copy a file from anywhere, to the root of C: - no inherited permissions - with UAC on default settings and logged on with an account that's a member of the Administrators group. If I try the same thing in Windows 8, with the same settings, I'm prompted for Administrative permissions.

I found the same thing from day 1 and ended up going back to 7. Performing file operations on a secondary drive that was presenting no problems on 7, suddenly 8 is asking for permissions. Deleting files on that drive also requires confirmation. Lots of like-for-like operations that are freely done on 7 suddenly need to be confirmed. To replicate the freedom I had on 7, I had to take ownership of my 2 data drives and run every installed program as Administrator, which I shouldn't have to do. Even having done that I still can't do things like making a new file in 'Program Files', again this wasn't an issue in 7.

I didn't try to totally disable UAC via the registry and I didn't want to use the 'proper' admin account as I feel that's exposing myself to more issues than I need to. There is no doubt that the regular Windows 8 account is locked down more than the equivalent 7 one.

 

[johnpombrio]

Calico, Ah, I understand now. Yeah, that is different to what I was talking about.

Could you change the permissions of the newly installed ROOT folders on boot/ installed drives instead of trying to deal with individual permission issues? If the Windows folder had a parent permission for users to make changes, wouldn't all programs inherit that blanket permission?

I just checked my other two drives on my system that were created with Win7 and both of the DRIVES have full r/w permissions for users. The only time I had a permission asked on those drives were for folders that I had previously had turned on SHARING privileges. Could that be the difference?

 

[gavin19]

I was getting permission issues across all drives. I never had any of them shared with the exception of one folder on one drive. Simple things like extracting an archive on one of the data drives would fail, due to not having permission to write to that drive.

I could have taken ownership of the C partition but I didn't want to have to do that (and shouldn't have to). I guess what's annoying is that I have moved up from 95>98>2000>XP>Vista>7 and have never had to specifically grant partition-wide file permissions. Windows has just allowed me to do what I want, but now I'm being restricted. I could understand if it was a regular user account but not admin.

 

[Calico]

Calico, Ah, I understand now. Yeah, that is different to what I was talking about.

Could you change the permissions of the newly installed ROOT folders on boot/ installed drives instead of trying to deal with individual permission issues?...

In this scenario, I'm actually referring to the 'root' - c:\ - which, as far as permissions are concerned, are the same on Windows 7 and 8. However, when I try to copy a file to C:\, on Windows 8, I'm denied, unless I grant administrative access. On Windows 7, there's no such prompt.

If one looks at the UAC settings for 7 and 8, which are set at the default position, the wording is the same - "Don't notify me when I make changes to Windows settings" - and the only share in play, is the default administrative share C$. There are clearly more restrictions in Windows 8, but, for now at least, they're not that obvious, until they're encountered.

 

[johnpombrio]

Thanks Calico, that IS strange!

One more request. Please show the ADVANCED PERMISSIONS and select your ADMIN account like this and take a screenshot. I am wondering if checking the box that I highlighted would rid you of these pesky permission requests.

 

[Calico]

There are no differences between the permissions, or ownership.

 

[Jav]

Calico, Ah, I understand now. Yeah, that is different to what I was talking about.

Could you change the permissions of the newly installed ROOT folders on boot/ installed drives instead of trying to deal with individual permission issues?...

In this scenario, I'm actually referring to the 'root' - c:\ - which, as far as permissions are concerned, are the same on Windows 7 and 8. However, when I try to copy a file to C:\, on Windows 8, I'm denied, unless I grant administrative access. On Windows 7, there's no such prompt.

If one looks at the UAC settings for 7 and 8, which are set at the default position, the wording is the same - "Don't notify me when I make changes to Windows settings" - and the only share in play, is the default administrative share C$. There are clearly more restrictions in Windows 8, but, for now at least, they're not that obvious, until they're encountered.

If you are trying all this under default UAC settings you should not look at administrative permission as UAC takes away administrative token and gives you user permission token, untill you approve to give admin token back (UAC prompt).

Though in default UAC (one before the top one) it uses internal white-list, mostly Microsoft signed executables that will be auto-elevated into admin privileges.

In you case if it is Admin with default UAC, both in Windows 7 and Windows 8 you are allowed to copy/create new folder in the Root directory.
Both in Windows 7 and Windows 8 you are not allowed to copy/create files (any thing other than folders) in the Root directory.

EDIT: You can go into Effective permission and choose Users, there you can see that both in Windows 7 and 8, users (this is the privilege you get under default UAC) have create folder permission but don't have create/copy file permission, which proves my above statement.
As you can see, under default UAC, both of the Systems should and have the same behaviour.

 

[Calico]

Calico, Ah, I understand now. Yeah, that is different to what I was talking about.

Could you change the permissions of the newly installed ROOT folders on boot/ installed drives instead of trying to deal with individual permission issues?...

In this scenario, I'm actually referring to the 'root' - c:\ - which, as far as permissions are concerned, are the same on Windows 7 and 8. However, when I try to copy a file to C:\, on Windows 8, I'm denied, unless I grant administrative access. On Windows 7, there's no such prompt.

If one looks at the UAC settings for 7 and 8, which are set at the default position, the wording is the same - "Don't notify me when I make changes to Windows settings" - and the only share in play, is the default administrative share C$. There are clearly more restrictions in Windows 8, but, for now at least, they're not that obvious, until they're encountered.

If you are trying all this under default UAC settings you should not look at administrative permission as UAC takes away administrative token and gives you user permission token, untill you approve to give admin token back (UAC prompt).

Though in default UAC (one before the top one) it uses internal white-list, mostly Microsoft signed executables that will be auto-elevated into admin privileges.

In you case if it is Admin with default UAC, both in Windows 7 and Windows 8 you are allowed to copy/create new folder in the Root directory.
Both in Windows 7 and Windows 8 you are not allowed to copy/create files (any thing other than folders) in the Root directory.

EDIT: You can go into Effective permission and choose Users, there you can see that both in Windows 7 and 8, users (this is the privilege you get under default UAC) have create folder permission but don't have create/copy file permission, which proves my above statement.
As you can see, under default UAC, both of the Systems should and have the same behaviour.

Indeed, but for some reason I'm able to copy and create files in the root of my Windows 7 image, without receiving prompt. Perhaps the VM image is corrupt. I'll make a clean VM later today and try again.

 

[johnpombrio]

Note that Calico and I have different permissions for our users accounts on our boot drives. I have FULL CONTROL while Calico has READ/EXECUTE (but no write control). I wonder why the discrepancy? I have no issues with permissions while Calico does.
When and how were the permissions changed between the two of us? I did a bare metal install from an .iso image. Did Calico do an upgrade instead?

 

[Jav]

Most of his permissions seems to be default.

Actually, It seems like that your permissions have been changed. Windows should not give full permission to users for root directory by default. On top of that it is giving full permission not just to the root but all subfolders and files. This is really worrying.

Can you please check and post permission to Windows and Program Files?

 

[Calico]

I created a new Windows 7 VM image and now I'm getting the same alert as seen in Windows 8, so it was obviously a manky VM before.

With regard the permissions discrepancy, I don't do upgrades, I just don't have faith in them, so they're always fresh installations. I checked The root permissions on all of the Windows 7 and 8 installations I have - some bare metal and some VMs - and they're all the same.

 

[johnpombrio]

Here are my permissions. I HAVE TURNED OFF UAC. Could that be all that is different? Nope, I changed my UAC up and it made no difference to any of the permissions. They are all still the same. I donno why my permissions are different than other folks.

I did use a reg edit hack "Take Ownership" to my Steam folder as I could not get write permissions to it. I have learned enough about permissions since to fix that without resorting to the hack.

I am PAST my comfort and knowlege zone here so I will monitor this thread only from now on...

 

[Calico]

Those permissions look the same as mine, with or without the UAC. The only oddity is the full control permission, for the Users group, on the root. Could it be something to do with Acronis?

 

[Jav]

Here are my permissions.

Don't worry.

It seems like at some point it got changed for some reasons. But it didn't affect your program file or windows folders so it is not really big issue.
It will just affect root and new folders on it. You can fix it or you can just ignore it.

 

[GMan]

Dudes, the answer to this one is simple. For whatever folder location you are having problems with, Take Ownership of it. But that is only the first thing. Now you must edit permissions, so go to do so.

Properties | Security | Advanced

Now click on the Disable Inheritance button then ok your way out. If necessary, tweak permission for your account further.

It's all great now. Enjoy.

Note: And yes, UAC all the way to the bottom as well.

 

[vahnx]

Alright, Windows 8 needs a giant ass button in control panel saying "DISABLE ALL SECURITY JUNK: WARNING, DOING SO WILL MAKE YOU INSECURE, DO YOU ACCEPT THE CHALLENGE?" then have like 10 captchas and a bouncing dot you must click then type in your admin password backwards.

 

[johnpombrio]

Dudes, the answer to this one is simple. For whatever folder location you are having problems with, Take Ownership of it. But that is only the first thing. Now you must edit permissions, so go to do so.

Properties | Security | Advanced

Now click on the Disable Inheritance button then ok your way out. If necessary, tweak permission for your account further.

It's all great now. Enjoy.

Note: And yes, UAC all the way to the bottom as well.

If only if it were that simple. What happens if all the permission boxes are GREYED OUT? It too can be fixed but it is a pain to do so. I have a post somewhere here on how to take ownership of these bad boys...

 

[GMan]

If only if it were that simple. What happens if all the permission boxes are GREYED OUT?

I would *think* (as in guess here heh heh) that it would be rare or maybe even impossible UNLESS explicitly set for no access from within your account and for your account.

Either that or you are not currently running as part of the Administrator group with Administrator privileges.

Take Ownership can be run from the elevated command prompt or it is available as a .reg file to add it to the right click menu. The command is "takeown" without the quotes.

Are you aware of any examples or scenarios that it might also happen? Curious...

 

[SIW2]

If all we do is modify our behavior to match what the beta can do, then we are being trained... and not doing testing.

Absolutley.

I already see people giving in to the idea that they must love it - if not , they will be out of step.

Hilarious, but also sad.

Just because you might not like it does not mean some of us cannot love it!

Yes, some people do genuinely seem to like it. That is great.

I would take a wild a wild stab at 50:50 for and against.

Funnily enough - pcworld survey just came to the same result - 50% said they would not recommend win 8.

That will probably swing in MS favour as time goes on.

It is human nature - If you dislike something - then frequent exposure to it will lessen that dislike.

It might not turn to love - but after a while there is a feeling it is not that bad after all.

Example :

If you walk into a vile smelling public toilet - at first it is hard to stay in the room .

After only a short time it becomes bearable.

Stay in there long enough - and you cease to be able to smell it at all.

You leave saying - well - it wasn't a great experience, but it wasn't so bad.

 

[vahnx]

If you walk into a vile smelling public toilet - at first it is hard to stay in the room .

After only a short time it becomes bearable.

Stay in there long enough - and you cease to be able to smell it at all.

You leave saying - well - it wasn't a great experience, but it wasn't so bad.

Hahaha, funny and yet so true. I guess the same does apply here.