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Don't Expect Deals Before Windows 8 Debuts

Microsoft is unlikely to offer price cuts for Windows 8 upgrades, as it did before the release of Windows 7, analyst says.

"I would expect upgrade pricing to consumers to be on par with Windows 7," said Stephen Baker of the NPD Group. "They had a compelling reason to get consumers off of Vista and priced [it] to make that happen [in 2009]. But the reason to get consumers onto a more modern platform with a software upgrade is a lot less now than in 2009."

Read more at:
Don't Expect Deals Before Windows 8 Debuts | PCWorld
 

crawfish

Member
Power User
@veryex, I probably generalised a bit too much, but WMC is only used by about 6% of users,

As a long-time Media Center user for Recorded TV, I can believe 6% of Windows users stumbled upon Media Center and launched it by accident. Once. I would be surprised if the number of real users is 1/100 of that. I've never met anyone IRL who had any idea what Media Center is.

playing a DVD could be even less, from Microsoft, I don't believe they would have any reason to make that up. The Start button I have no idea of the usage, but again from Microsoft, a lot of people don't even know what it's there for.

As lousy an interface as the Start Button and the Start Menu are, it's silly to believe there's any truth to what you say about "a lot of people not knowing what it's there for". You have to use the Start Menu to use Windows, and it's been part of Windows since 1995. From reading posts here, it's the only thing people actually understand; hardly anyone gets the Windows 7 taskbar. (NB: As I've posted many times, I thought the Start Menu was garbage since I first saw it in the NT4 beta, because it's hard to navigate, and IT GOES AWAY when you select something from it, forcing you to do the navigation all over again the next time. For me, its primary use has been as a repository for program icons that I copy to more useful places, like pinning them to the Windows 7 taskbar, which has completely replaced the program launchers I used in earlier versions of Windows. Now that thing with pinning, progress indicators, jump lists, etc was a slam-dunk of goodness.)

The main thing is that MS is trying to get this OS right across the board from Desktop to Tablets and Phones, some of these systems will have much less power, hence the need to drop any extra baggage.
Hopefully they are doing this right, if they are, one day we'll look back at this and laugh, like we do at the people on XP. If they're doing it wrong, we might all end up making Apple even more money.

So, despite computers getting more and more powerful, it's time for Microsoft to sacrifice the capabilities of its flagship OS on the altar of trying to achieve a foolish consistency with severely constrained devices that require an incompatible, markedly different interface (touch) in a market they blew? I think Windows 8 should be known as Windows HE, for "Hobgoblin Edition". Oh, and since you seem to be into laughing at people, this is at you: :roflmao: :doh:
 

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No good laughing at me mate, I couldn't care less which way they go. It's you people who can't drag themselves out of the past who need pitying. Regardless of your protests MS will do what it's go to do, and yeah I know, you'll go to Linux.
 

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Vertex

New Member
Power User
No good laughing at me mate, I couldn't care less which way they go. It's you people who can't drag themselves out of the past who need pitying. Regardless of your protests MS will do what it's go to do, and yeah I know, you'll go to Linux.
No, its M$ that are putting themselves pitiful right now because they are driving many people away from Windows 8, by either staying to Windows 7, switching to Mac or Linux and you do know that you people who are liking what Microsoft is doing right now is a minority so why would you pity us? Isn't it supposed to be the other way around? We have rights to protest our claim and be heard but some people like you would arrogantly think that we couldn't drive ourselves away from the past. Not all of us wanted touch like you even if you argue that is the way of the future. Remember not all changes are for the better.:dinesh:
 

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No good laughing at me mate, I couldn't care less which way they go. It's you people who can't drag themselves out of the past who need pitying. Regardless of your protests MS will do what it's go to do, and yeah I know, you'll go to Linux.
No, its M$ that are putting themselves pitiful right now because they are driving many people away from Windows 8, by either staying to Windows 7, switching to Mac or Linux and you do know that you people who are liking what Microsoft is doing right now is a minority so why would you pity us? Isn't it supposed to be the other way around? We have rights to protest our claim and be heard but some people like you would arrogantly think that we couldn't drive ourselves away from the past. Not all of us wanted touch like you even if you argue that is the way of the future. Remember not all changes are for the better.:dinesh:

It might look as if I'm the minority, but that's because this is a tech site, the majority of people aren't that into tech, as proven by Apple products. As far as touch goes, that certainly is the future, as is mobile. The younger generation isn't even interested in PC's, so as you can see, sites like this are skewed towards older tech guys(like me by the way),who don't particularly want change.

Look I can see where you guys are coming from, but the world isn't going to change for the sake of a few techies, when all the money is going to mobile computing. I know it's easy to rubbish MS they are a big target, and to be honest I think they've always listened to people to a great extent, as opposed to Apple who listen to no one.

I'm sure, just as in the past Microsoft will bend again and listen to people, but they also have to do what they think is going to work for them, they have a huge obligation to shareholders and their user base. I know it's pretty easy to sit on the sidelines and throw rocks at them, but I doubt the job is as easy as we all like to think.

Me personally, I would rather see MS succeed than fail and if they have to do things I don't always like, then so be it. I'd rather be in a MS world than Apple world.
 

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24c

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Well said BillWindows.....................very well said.
 

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Vertex

New Member
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It might look as if I'm the minority, but that's because this is a tech site, the majority of people aren't that into tech, as proven by Apple products. As far as touch goes, that certainly is the future, as is mobile. The younger generation isn't even interested in PC's, so as you can see, sites like this are skewed towards older tech guys(like me by the way),who don't particularly want change.

Look I can see where you guys are coming from, but the world isn't going to change for the sake of a few techies, when all the money is going to mobile computing. I know it's easy to rubbish MS they are a big target, and to be honest I think they've always listened to people to a great extent, as opposed to Apple who listen to no one.

I'm sure, just as in the past Microsoft will bend again and listen to people, but they also have to do what they think is going to work for them, they have a huge obligation to shareholders and their user base. I know it's pretty easy to sit on the sidelines and throw rocks at them, but I doubt the job is as easy as we all like to think.

Me personally, I would rather see MS succeed than fail and if they have to do things I don't always like, then so be it. I'd rather be in a MS world than Apple world.
You are so generic with your assumptions. It doesnt look like M$ is listening to people. How do you explain that they stripped away important things like the Start button and Start menu that many still use and they would arrogantly say they won't put it back whilst forcing people to see the Metro screen as the first thing when they log on to their machine? Why did they strip away Aero when many still like it? Why didnt they just give the user a choice to have it enabled on Windows 8? Go to many other blogs, forums and other places where people can comment towards Windows 8, you still get a lot of negative feedback so don't tell me that its only the "techies" among us who are making negative feedback. In fact, its the less computer literate that would have more problems without a tutorial or guidelines since many are unfamiliar with the shortcut keys or hotkeys now that the Start menu and Start button are gone. Many of these less computer literate guys will have difficulties finding things and of course many would make rants. I for one consider myself as part of the younger generation but even still, there are younger guys who would prefer the PC for PC gaming, Photoshop, video editing, making homework using MS Word and many other things that most people would be more comfortable using mice and keyboards than touch screen. I know mobile computing is getting more popular but they shouldn't treat the Desktop and legacy apps as 2nd class citizens. They don't seem to be listening to many people, they would rather follow their target market which is mobile computing and the clouds.

I'm also against cloud based computing because I'd rather hold the data on my own and outside developed countries, more than 95% of the areas have NO Wifi access and M$ seems to be trying to get us to the clouds.
 

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crawfish

Member
Power User
No good laughing at me mate, I couldn't care less which way they go. It's you people who can't drag themselves out of the past who need pitying. Regardless of your protests MS will do what it's go to do, and yeah I know, you'll go to Linux.

"I'll go to Linux"? How random. "Can't drag myself out of the past?" As I've written before, Metro's Start Screen and its full-screen "apps" remind me of what I was using in the 1980s, though no one was so stupid in those days to create something as dumb as "The 4 Corners". I don't want to return to the past, and I certainly won't do so to cater to Microsoft's desperation at losing the mobile market. As I've explained before, the touch interface on PCs plain does not work, Metro apps suppress the Windows 7 taskbar, which is bad, and so forth. And "Microsoft is going to do what Microsoft is going to do, and I can't change it"? Wow, I never thought I could. You made a lot of unwarranted assumptions in your reply, starting with the lack of goodness in laughing at you. And obviously your claim that you "couldn't care less which way they go" is false; you're here talking about it!
 

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jimbo45

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Guru
Hi there
C'mon guys --do you really believe this load of Horse SH--te'.
Most users will find NO problem using whatever interface Windows has.

My experience is that it's the "Geeks" and I.T depts. that will have most problems with this stuff.
Regular users will just take this in their stride. (And I'm an older guy from an Engineering / Oil/Gas and mining background so no I.T pre-conceptions to get rid of either).

Cheers
jimbo
 

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JCClouser

Member
Member
Thanks jimbo for that acute, succinct "stop" on that conversation. It was getting a bit tiresome. :rolleyes: I almost stopped visiting this forum (like a couple of others) because of conversations like these. Yes, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but don't let it degrade into back-biting. Sheesh!!!

I agree with you about most users taking the changes in stride. Every Windows OS since probably 3.1 has had a tutorial written in a manual or a flash movie within the intro to the OS. I we well know, no beta has such a thing!!! Users will learn either from these tutorials (at home), or their IT departments (at work).
 

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"Before that boom happened, many people were deeply skeptical about Windows. As Charles Petzold wrote in the June 9, 1987 issue of PC Magazine, back when the current edition of Windows was version 1.03:
Some people refer to the program as “Broken Windows” or “Microsoft Widows.” Others refuse on general principle to use a PC program that uses a mouse or otherwise reminds them of the Apple Macintosh.


Some things never change.
 

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crawfish

Member
Power User
"Before that boom happened, many people were deeply skeptical about Windows. As Charles Petzold wrote in the June 9, 1987 issue of PC Magazine, back when the current edition of Windows was version 1.03:
Some people refer to the program as “Broken Windows” or “Microsoft Widows.” Others refuse on general principle to use a PC program that uses a mouse or otherwise reminds them of the Apple Macintosh.


Some things never change.

Funny. My Atari ST came with a mouse in 1985; it was one of the reasons I bought it, and I had been using mouseless computers for six years previous to that. I've remained something of a gadget freak all this time, but the gadget has to make sense. I've explained in some detail why touch makes no sense on a PC. Instead of talking about that and telling me why I'm wrong and how it helps, all you do is make bad assumptions and worse analogies. If you have to make an analogy, comparing Windows HE to New Coke would be a lot more apt.
 

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legacy7955

Member
Member
"Before that boom happened, many people were deeply skeptical about Windows. As Charles Petzold wrote in the June 9, 1987 issue of PC Magazine, back when the current edition of Windows was version 1.03:
Some people refer to the program as “Broken Windows” or “Microsoft Widows.” Others refuse on general principle to use a PC program that uses a mouse or otherwise reminds them of the Apple Macintosh.


Some things never change.

Funny. My Atari ST came with a mouse in 1985; it was one of the reasons I bought it, and I had been using mouseless computers for six years previous to that. I've remained something of a gadget freak all this time, but the gadget has to make sense. I've explained in some detail why touch makes no sense on a PC. Instead of talking about that and telling me why I'm wrong and how it helps, all you do is make bad assumptions and worse analogies.

If you have to make an analogy, comparing Windows HE to New Coke would be a lot more apt.

So uh BillWindows, about that touch screen being the future, how will people focused on productivity
be truly productive using touch screens? It is NOT possible.

NO ONE...and I MEAN NO HUMAN would be able to keep their arms stretched out tapping at a slippery screen with no tactile feel for hours on end. To believe this is insanity.

Let's not forget the cost of these fancy larger touch screens as well. It is hubris to think that most folks will spring for the added costs.

As for tablets being the future, nonsense, I know plenty of younger people that game and they use the typical desktop format, with very powerful hardware, something no tablet, phone, or even game console can even think about matching for the next half a century or more.

M$ can dream big but the reality of the situation will come crashing down on their single-mindedness.

MS Stop trying to be Apple, there ALREADY is one.

Just because a few wealthy spoiled hipsters with a lack of common sense use them doesn't mean that the rest of us are buying into to the fruit factory lifestyle crap.


 

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Look you guys are blowing this whole thing out of proportion, you're making it sound as if it's the end of the world, not unlike the 1987 analogy.

People who are comfortable with Windows 8 will make the jump, those who aren't have got plenty of time to see how it all works out. I don't know where you get the idea that the keyboard and mouse are dead, they're not, and won't be for a long time. There will be other devices though, like touch pads and styluses, maybe even things like tiltable monitors with a palm rest. Things have a habit of evolving.

I think these are exciting times in terms of tech and I can see a whole slew of new devices coming out because of Windows 8, all for the better. People will have much more choice than they've ever had. My own PC gets less and less loving all the time as I spend more time on my tablets and phones.
Stop worrying about sitting around for hours tapping at touch screens with your arms out stretched, that's a figment of your imagination, or someone else's.
 

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Dave76

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Pro User
I think we can all agree on a couple points.
We all have a choice to which OS we prefer, let's not get personal if someone's choice is different than yours.

Take a minute and think about the OS you would like to have, then what would you design for everyone in the world to use, please keep in mind that everyone has different ideas of what this would be.
No matter what OS you come up with someone won't like it.
This would be a very difficult task to try to achieve.

I think everyone could agree that if the OS was more customizable then everyone could make it the way they want it. But, there are limits to how customizable it can be made.
Where to draw the line?
Keep it small and lite or make it large and able to accommodate everyone, there has to be a limit.

Do we all think Win8 is perfect, I think not.

Is it acceptable? Each person has to decide for themselves.

Personally, I hope MS puts in all the major options that have been mentioned in this and other forums, so more people will get the ability to make it the way they would like it to be.
Don't think that they will put all options in but hopefully a few more choices will be included. For the ones that are left out, third party solutions will become available.
For those that are still not comfortable, they still have the choice to find something that suits them.

We all have our own choice to make.
 

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