Blurry text problem has not been fixed in Win 8.1 RTM

acr731

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I can confirm that M$ did NOT fix the blurry text problem. This is absolutely UNACCEPTABLE for an OS to be released with a bug that was known long before RTM.

There could be legitimate reasons for this, though. The leaked version might not be the real RTM. It could also be a driver issue. Regardless, if this is in fact the real RTM, how could M$ release an unfinished product?

Its another nail in the coffin for Win 8/8.1 in my case. I hope it eventually gets fixed, but as it stands now M$ still has done nothing to sway me towards upgrading from Win 7.

For those who may be wondering, I'm running dual Nvidia 675m cards in SLI.
 

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caperjack

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incorrect monitor refresh rate could mess up font ,

and for what its worth none of the posted text screen shots look ok on my system
 

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joncr

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If the problem is in your hardware, then screenshots will not show any problems, because the actual bitmaps will be fine.. it's just subpixel rendering that will be faulty, and since that's display specific, it won't appear in the image if viewed on a different monitor.

The "smearing" you mention is called "anti-aliasing". It's deliberate, and you can obviously turn it off if you don't like it, but most people prefer it to the alternative.

I know what anti-aliasing is and what it looks like. For example, an upper-case 'L' looks like an oval blob of black ink, equal to half the height of the character, is fixed to its bottom edge. It's less an L than a vertical line attached to the bottom half of a solid black oval. That's not anti-aliasing. At least, it's not an affect of anti-aliasing I see in other software.
 

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David Bailey

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Microsoft Product Support Customer Phone Number | Shortest Wait | Best Support | GetHuman.com

Remote Procedure Call

Let Microsoft fix it.

I have used this number & let them do a RPC to fix issues.

Or just ignore such a simple way to fix things.

This is my last post on this subject. banghead.gif
 

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fafhrd

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It is pretty clear from the abundance of enquiries on Microsoft Answers ever since IE6 on this subject, and the lack of any solution, that this is not a problem Microsoft concerns itself with. The support staff generally come up with useless remedies - like reinstall Windows!

Microsoft considers it normal to have several methods of font smoothing, from the original Adobe Type Manager solutions that were incorporated into early Windows versions, and became (font smoothing) then XP ClearType TM (an old remedy from the Apple II reinvented 20 years later in 1997 by Bill Gates, apparently) and since then the solutions from the Vista stable and the current endeavour to get everything tablet friendly for the Modern UI, meaning a different method for each desktop application.

It may not be good enough for some, but there are also many who either don't consider it a problem, or put up with it, or vote with their feet to Linux or OSX, both of which have fewer complaints.

Joncr - I know you don't have Windows ATM - and it is difficult to offer anything else, despite your detailed descriptions. Your description* does sound like a driver issue though - for the Thinkpad, try LaptopVideo2Go: NVIDIA & Laptop News It is a notebook with a choice of screens on purchase, I believe you have the high end one. I hope the Windows driver is the right one.

*"lower portions... ...blob of black" either driver or scaling??? Scaling occurs in both height and width - rendering tends to be only at the sides of the glyph, leading to more or less intense downstrokes and line width distortions. Black lines on one side of icons for instance can be due to driver faults.

https://www.grc.com/ct/ctwhat.htm gives an account of SubPixel rendering, and at the bottom of the page, what can go wrong if the order of colours is wrong for an algorithm that renders the font.

It may well be that less accomplished kit does not show the problems as much as cutting edge displays. I have a cheap £250 HP/Compaq 15" 1366x768 notebook built for Windows 7, which displays on all browsers without issue. Differences between them, yes, as my screenshot shows, but without hideous distortion.
 

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joncr

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Thanks for that link, fafhrd. The drivers I've been using are from Lenovo. They have a useful tool that can run after a basic new install, determine which drivers, non-MS updates, etc., are needed, and then install them. If memory serves, the Nvidia was at 325.??.

I don't see those anomalies running current Nvidia drivers on Linux. But, while they're at more or less the same version number, I'm sure they're very different internally.

One reason Windows is dragging around all those font rendering methods is for compatibility. MS seems to want to support some rather ancient software. Why they just haven't bitten the bullet and standardized on a single good, competitive, approach is beyond me. Apple changed the entire freakin' platform and the chips it ran on without bankrupting the company (obviously). They announced their plans well in advance, they held hands, they put emulators in Macs to run the old code and kept them there for a *long* time. i know MS has a huge customer base to worry about, and they can't just toss people overboard, as has happened in Linux. But, Apple's approach to "Big Change" seems pretty sensible.

I used to be involved in IT purchasing/contracting decisiions for an organizatoin that had about 20,000 Windows NT4 seats. I understand that they've switched to Win 7, and bought thousands of Dell LCD's. If getting Windows 8 to look acceptable to their employees requires replacing all those displays with yet-to-be-built 200-DPI units, they simply won't buy Windows 8. They might not buy another Windows version, again, period.
 

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Mystere

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Because most people do not have a problem with font rendering, it's hard to argue that this is a problem with the OS.

Yes, yes, Windows honor is secure. Now, do you have any suggestions for me that don't amount to throwing out $3500 in hardware and going on a serial shopping spree?

What are you using for a cable? DVI? If so, I've read that when using DVI the monitor may act like a TV instead of a monitor and use a composite signal instead, which lowers the quality.

Have you checked the monitors display information to verify that the signal is digital, and RGB?
 

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joncr

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Because most people do not have a problem with font rendering, it's hard to argue that this is a problem with the OS.

Yes, yes, Windows honor is secure. Now, do you have any suggestions for me that don't amount to throwing out $3500 in hardware and going on a serial shopping spree?

What are you using for a cable? DVI? If so, I've read that when using DVI the monitor may act like a TV instead of a monitor and use a composite signal instead, which lowers the quality.

Have you checked the monitors display information to verify that the signal is digital, and RGB?


It's a DVI to the Dell. I haven't heard that. I usually see recommendations to drop an HDMI cable and use DVI. I think I have an HDMI cable for the Dell here someplace. I'll try it next time. Still, won't help the ThinkPad.

Yep, it's a digital signal. I can make the display look really, really awful by playing around with the monitor controls, but I can't make it look any better.
 

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Mystere

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It's a DVI to the Dell. I haven't heard that. I usually see recommendations to drop an HDMI cable and use DVI. I think I have an HDMI cable for the Dell here someplace. I'll try it next time. Still, won't help the ThinkPad.

Yep, it's a digital signal. I can make the display look really, really awful by playing around with the monitor controls, but I can't make it look any better.

Sorry, I meant HDMI, although DVI does have an analog component, it's usually digital.

Have you tried downloading the color profile for your monitor and installing it?

ICC Profiles and Monitor Settings Database
 

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joncr

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Thnks for the pointer to the ICC site. Hadn't seen it.

i have several profiles for the Dell and the ThinkPad, including some I generated with ColorMunki.
 

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dskiller

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I only have the blurred text with firefox and ie. chrome doesnt have the problem.


if you disable hardware acceleration the blurred text goes away. at lest it did for me.
 

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polbit

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I just installed 8.1 RTM on my new Dell XPS 12 and can confirm the new Windows version introduced something I've never seen before - lots of apps, certain windows or popups have blurriness to them whereas others are normal. 8.0 did not have this issue (other than the general poor font smoothing that Windows has), so 8.1 definitely introduced something new here. Since XPS 12 uses Intel 4000 graphics, I'd imagine this problem can be seen on a lot of machines. It looks horrible, and I'm in process of reverting back to 8.0...
 

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The Doctor

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Why not just contact Microsoft Customer Support since you aren't getting an answer here ?

I did contact Microsoft Customer Service.
They just offered an entirely inappropriate canned response that was not even slightly relevant to this grey-scale font rendering problem.
It was quite clear they just don't want to know.
 

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Mystere

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I did contact Microsoft Customer Service.
They just offered an entirely inappropriate canned response that was not even slightly relevant to this grey-scale font rendering problem.
It was quite clear they just don't want to know.

Apparently, you don't quite seem to understand how technical support works with most technical companies. The first line response is always just script monkeys that can only type stuff into the knowledge base and parrot the response. They can't do anything. You have to get your request escalated before you can get to anyone that can actually think outside the script.

This is nothing new. The reason for this is that the vast majority of calls are of the type that get answered by the front line, and there is no reason for more knowledgeable people to deal with those. You know "My computer screen is black, help me". "Is your monitor turned on?"...... "Oh, no.. sorry, nevermind"
 

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The Doctor

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Escalation Attempt

I did contact Microsoft Customer Service.
They just offered an entirely inappropriate canned response that was not even slightly relevant to this grey-scale font rendering problem.
It was quite clear they just don't want to know.


Apparently, you don't quite seem to understand how technical support works with most technical companies. The first line response is always just script monkeys that can only type stuff into the knowledge base and parrot the response. They can't do anything. You have to get your request escalated before you can get to anyone that can actually think outside the script.

This is nothing new. The reason for this is that the vast majority of calls are of the type that get answered by the front line, and there is no reason for more knowledgeable people to deal with those. You know "My computer screen is black, help me". "Is your monitor turned on?"...... "Oh, no.. sorry, nevermind"

I did attempt to escalate my request but the escalation was ignored.
 

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The Doctor

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popeye

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You don't seem to get that just because a few vocal people post something all over doesn't mean it's a problem that a large number of people have. They simply don't.

Sorry, but it is not just a few people having this font rendering problem.

See this thread:
Poor font rendering in Windows 8 (blurry text) - Microsoft Community

When reading the link you posted I notice Office 2013 was one of the problem programs listed. I haven't really used the OEM version that came with my computer yet but went ahead and opened one of the templates in Word.
Sure enough, blurry font, especially the smaller stuff.

Amazing since this is a Microsoft program.
 

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atiro

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I had a similar problem after upgrading to 8.1. Chrome, system dialog boxes, etc looked blurry as if my graphics card was problematic. But a simple operation solved the problem.
You can just follow this link. A "tick" in a box and it's OK for me now. I hope, it works for others, too.

[Fix] Bold, Blurry or Hard to Read Font Problem in Windows 8.1 - AskVG
 

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hdmi

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The Doctor

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I had a similar problem after upgrading to 8.1. Chrome, system dialog boxes, etc looked blurry as if my graphics card was problematic. But a simple operation solved the problem.
You can just follow this link. A "tick" in a box and it's OK for me now. I hope, it works for others, too.

[Fix] Bold, Blurry or Hard to Read Font Problem in Windows 8.1 - AskVG

It is not Chrome nor dialog boxes that are the problem. Most parts of the desktop UI are as clear as they are in windows 7.

The problem is the blurry font rendering in IE11. Text in documents or spreadsheets is terrible. This is because IE11 ignores and overrides the Windows 8 RGB font rendering and uses Greyscale font rendering on web pages.
The same problem exists in Office 2013.

I have seen, and tried, your suggestion before. My current settings are as per the AskVG instruction.
It has not resulted in any improvement in text rendering.

Running Windows 7 on the same machine results in perfectly clear text in all applications.
 

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4wd

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Windows 7 on the same machine results in perfectly clear text
Got the exact same experience on several laptops. Hoped for some improvement in 8.1, nothing.
IE11 especially affected, renders it useless here.
 

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