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8 things Microsoft needs to do to save Windows 8

[h=1]
8 things Microsoft needs to do to save Windows 8[/h] By David Gewirtz
April 26, 2012, 2:14am PDT


Summary: The real world runs on real computers doing real work and those computers run Windows. Microsoft needs to remember that as they introduce Windows 8 to the real world.


Our home media PC is getting a little long in the tooth. It’s always been a bit of a problem because we bought a horizontal case that would look pretty in our media room, rather than one optimized for holding PC hardware. Right now, the machine is just about three years old, hasn’t had a Windows reinstall in all that time, and has developed its own set of quirks.


It’s getting near that time. It’s getting near that time when either a Windows reinstall is necessary, or its general crotchetiness will give us an excuse to build a spiffy, new machine. And that has had me thinking about whether we’ll just put our trusty copy of 64-bit Windows 7 on it, or hold out for Windows 8.


That
has had me thinking about whether I even want to run Windows 8, and that got me thinking about what it would take to make Windows 8 a real, acknowledged, indisputable success in the marketplace.


Here, then, are eight things Microsoft needs to do to save Windows 8:

see two page report

(I think most would agree on Item #3! :D )
 

jeffrys

Power User
Power User
well Night Hawk, even item 3, not for me. I disagree here as well. Sure the old desktop option with the start button is used but hardly. (right click). Since everything I find here, I find on the metro or the charm bar with one click

For work I use mostly metro, with one click one opens his folders needed, his Excel worksheet or Office single document etc, shutdown, restart or logoff, while on the standard desktop one needs 2 clicks. Disagree also on the smaller screen, having a 26 inch one and it looks nice.

So again, for me it is Windows 8 all the way and hopefully Windows 9 gets even better.

Jeff

Like the switch between old desktop and metro. Like the charm bar where instantly after one click all apps appear, etc;
 

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Night Hawk

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Each to their own! Many are sadly disappointed and do not have any strong interest in 8 for this simple reason! They were taken offguard with the radical unannounced change MS has in store for 8 doing away with the all too familiar Start/shutdown button rather then as one writer put it using some fangled "convoluted" multi-step process to simply shutdown, restart, or log out of the desktop.

Many are hoping MS would do the same or similar thing seen in Vista with the options for the Aero style or Classic Windows themes the older version offered there by having an option for or not for Metro as the default in all cases. This will be a large under taking by MS steering away from the all too familiar for the... what will be labeled "different OS from Windows" in a sense.

That's precisely what the writer is pointing to as far the "Real World" desktop OS over what many will take 8 for. Obviously you can always expect to see some new changes with each new version while this was a large step by MS there.
 

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jeffrys

Power User
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Night Hawk,

you did not read my post well, in the Metro, shutdown, restart, logoff, opening much used Excel docu's or folders open in one click, 2 clicks in the old style desktop.

Jeff
 

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GMan

Banned
Microsoft made it mouse gymnastics to shut down or restart. I think it's because they are trying to lessen their usage/visibility since an operating system working well never ever needs to be restarted. Not even after months or even years.

So many people incorrectly believe that an OS should be restarted every so often "to fix the memory" or similar.

Of course though, some people still like to turn off their machines because they don't use them that often.
 

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Night Hawk

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With touchscreen the motion is much faster then moving the cursor around and clicking several times making the process a bit tedious iwth the new layout of things. Ask yourself which can you move and work with faster your finger tip or mouse? The answer to that is the obvious one.

If you have been watching some of the recent tv series when someone goes to use a touchscreen you see how fast they bring up new windows as well as move them around on the screen. When using a mouse however the task is just a little more complex due to those few extra point and clicks over simply clicking on the Start button then shutdown, logoff, or restart.

Count the steps between each to see for yourself.

Windows 7 = 2-3 steps since the options list pops out from the side. Shutdown, Restart, or Logoff set in taskbar properties options.
Windows 8 = 3 steps first go to lower right hand corner and wait for bar to appear, click on Power item, Select from the three. Shutdown, Restart, or Sleep

PC Shutdown_Restart_Logoff.jpg
 

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jeffrys

Power User
Power User
But, if you put a shortcut for shutdown, for restart, for log-off (3 icons) in your old system taskbar, you click only once.
If you put this in your metro, same, you click only once.

On the taskbar you need at least 2 clicks to open 1 Excel docu, on the metro you can do this in one click.

So I really do not see the problem here.

But, the problem is that when you do this in the metro, you are directed to the older screen/taskbar.

Jeff
 
Last edited:

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lehnerus2000

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So many people incorrectly believe that an OS should be restarted every so often "to fix the memory" or similar.

If that is a fallacy, why does restarting Windows fix glitches?
For example, all the "Start Menu" items "losing" their icons.

I find that I occasionally have to restart W7 to fix weird behaviour (maybe once a month).
It's nowhere near as often as it had to be done in XP though.

I even have to restart Ubuntu 10.04 sometimes (maybe once every 3 months).
 

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GMan

Banned
If that is a fallacy, why does restarting Windows fix glitches?
For example, all the "Start Menu" items "losing" their icons.

I've never seen that happen. Restarting Windows does work for some people for some things. But if you notice in what I said - "an operating system working well" - quite often, people install low quality programs or use programs (Ccleaner) with settings that they don't know what they're doing with. Then we know what comes next after their own fault - "Damn &*&^*^ Microsoft."

I find that I occasionally have to restart W7 to fix weird behaviour (maybe once a month).
It's nowhere near as often as it had to be done in XP though.

You're getting the idea. Instead of restarting (not that it's a big deal...but) - you could find the source of your issue causing the need to restart and fix it.

I even have to restart Ubuntu 10.04 sometimes (maybe once every 3 months).

Ya I just installed Ubuntu about a month or so ago on an old laptop with broken screen and external CRT. Quite pleased with its performance. The only time I ever rebooted it was when I updated it and it said it needed to. Actually, that is the only time I ever reboot my Windows pcs too. If it wasn't for Windows Updates, my machines would be up for years.
 

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jimbo45

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Microsoft made it mouse gymnastics to shut down or restart. I think it's because they are trying to lessen their usage/visibility since an operating system working well never ever needs to be restarted. Not even after months or even years.

So many people incorrectly believe that an OS should be restarted every so often "to fix the memory" or similar.

Of course though, some people still like to turn off their machines because they don't use them that often.

Hi there
In these days of Energy conservation if everybody turned their computers OFF when they weren't needing them we could save using a lot of FOSSIL fuels and reduce Greenhouse gas production.

We have relatively cheap CLEAN Energy but we are still encouraged to turn off lights etc when we don't need them.

Even if your computer is only using around 40-60 watts in "idle mode" -- just imagine the power consumption required for several BILLION computers left switched on needlessly.

I always turn mine off when I'm done and I encourage others to do the same unless you really are using Solar Energy or a cheap indefinite supply of clean power.

(Servers are another issue and often DO need to be left switched on) - I'm referring to computers that you literally don't need to have left switched on all the time when you've finished your sessions on them.

Rebooting W8 - especially with an SSD takes seconds.

I can't say I'm too bothered about using Metro or the "Old" menu to find and start applications -- but what I do hope is that "Classical Applications" won't all be "Metrofied" so we can only run them in Full Screen mode. -- I (and am sure others too) often want to see multiple pages of documents at the same time whether using one or multiple monitors (or even multiple web site pages at the same time too).

Full screen mode is fine for small devices such as smart phones and tablets --but large powerful LCD monitors you often need multiple windows open at the same time on the same screen.

Also any sort of touch screen operation on large monitors is definitely out for "classical apps" -- How do you enter data in Spread sheet cells without having your nose almost touching the screen when using a touch screen. I assure you that even using Pen input on a monitor in a Vertical position is no fun either unless you are making a drawing like you would on an old style "Drawing board" or easel and paper.

I sit well back with a wireless keyboard or even pen device (on a Horizontal pad - not on the monitor itself) - especially with a 47 inch LCD !!!.

I also wish the Metro tiles could be customised a bit -- if you have a few applications the tiles all look very similar. I'd also like them to be grouped.

I think also we are getting into the pedantic arena if we are counting keystrokes to start an application -- is one extra key stroke of any consequence whatsoever if you are typing a 10,000 word document.!!

Cheers
jimbo
 

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GMan

Banned
In these days of Energy conservation if everybody turned their computers OFF when they weren't needing them we could save using a lot of FOSSIL fuels and reduce Greenhouse gas production.

Oil is not made from fossils, but rather it's abiotic. (If you really honestly think about it, the concept that it is becomes highly dumb.) That's a lie or a myth or whatever you want to call it, to make it seem scarce or whatnot. It's been a part of Earth before there was even life. That's a lie or a myth or whatever you want to call it.

The Green movement is just a control tactic to enslave everyone with taxes and control. Energy has never been a problem, never will be and CO2 is actually greatly beneficial to our planet. Without it, there would be no life. I say let's make as much as possible.
 

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jimbo45

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Hi there.
1) Taxation is one issue - but that's up to the respective voters / citizens of the particular jurisdiction you live in. It Has absolutely NOTHING to do with "Green" practices but usually corporate greed of various organisations. If you feel that the "Green agenda" in your part of the world is just a lame excuse for politicians pushing tax rises through -- then just dump those guys at the next set of elections.

2) A certain amount of CO2 of course is necessary -- the problem is not to get it into a "Runaway Greenhouse state" like the Planet Venus. In any case requiring less Oil and Coal causes less pollution and I'm sure we all agree pollution is a bad thing whether or not you care about Green policies or not.

3) Oil is MOST DEFINITLEY a Fossil fuel under almost any definition you care to name. Its production in places like Port Harcourt in Nigeria or parts of Northern Canada cause probably the most toxic waste you would ever be likely to see ANYWHERE and that under any circumstances can't be good for anyone -- and this is all MAN MADE. (There is always a certain natural amount of seepage in places that have a large Oil supply but this is MINISCULE compared with the damage caused by "sloppy" Engineering etc.

4) Wasting anything is bad housekeeping -- and who knows that small amount of money you saved off your Energy bills might just help you get something that you really want but haven't got the money for.


Anyway you should read this fairly simple piece about Oil -- and it explains quite clearly what Fossil fuels are (I worked over 30 years in the Oil Industry so I do have some idea about it !!!).

http://steckvaughn.hmhco.com/HA/correlations/pdf/f/FOS5e_oil.pdf

Cheers
jimbo
 

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lehnerus2000

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Glitches vs Problems

If that is a fallacy, why does restarting Windows fix glitches?
For example, all the "Start Menu" items "losing" their icons.

I've never seen that happen. Restarting Windows does work for some people for some things. But if you notice in what I said - "an operating system working well" - quite often, people install low quality programs or use programs (Ccleaner) with settings that they don't know what they're doing with. Then we know what comes next after their own fault - "Damn &*&^*^ Microsoft."

How is the "average Joe" supposed to know what a quality programs is? :confused:
More expensive = higher quality?
I don't think so.

Is Word a quality program?
Word constantly glitches (e.g. Style failures, Numbering failures, Header and Footer failures, etc.).

At least it's slowly improving (Word 2007 glitches < Word 2003, which glitches < Word 2000).
Presumably, Word 2010 has less glitches than the previous version.

When the "average Joe installs a program he/she expects it to work perfectly (with no tinkering required).
If I am unsure of a program, I create a "System Restore" point and make a backup HDD image.
I then install the program and hope it works. :(

I find that I occasionally have to restart W7 to fix weird behaviour (maybe once a month).
It's nowhere near as often as it had to be done in XP though.

You're getting the idea. Instead of restarting (not that it's a big deal...but) - you could find the source of your issue causing the need to restart and fix it.

That only works if a problem is permanent or repeatable.
If it isn't permanent or repeatable, I define it as a glitch.

If the following sequence caused a glitch/problem every time, you'd have something to work with:
  • Start Word.
  • Load any document.
  • Perform a specific operation.
  • The computer starts to misbehave.
  • Bingo.
In reality, glitches occur seemingly at random (any program or combination of programs).

Cosmetic glitches are only annoyances:
  • "Start Menu" icons (only) not appearing (3 or 4 times since W7 b7048).
  • Applets not loading in Ubuntu (3 or 4 times in 2 years).
It's not worth spending hours (or days) deciphering technical documentation (assuming you can find it) to "fix" the glitch.
Especially since rebooting only takes a couple of minutes (max).

IMO, more emphasis should be placed on making and using backup HDD images (training for the "average Joe", that is).

Spend a few minutes re-imaging your PC or spend hours (or days) researching and tinkering?
 
Last edited:

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GMan

Banned
How is the "average Joe" supposed to know what a quality programs is? :confused:

By becoming more knowledgeable than "average Joe".

Word never glitches for me.
 

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lehnerus2000

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Free Pass

How is the "average Joe" supposed to know what a quality programs is? :confused:
By becoming more knowledgeable than "average Joe".

That is giving a free pass to software/hardware makers who make substandard products (protected by law, to boot).
It's the reason that Adobe Flash is still a security nightmare. :(

Most people don't have the time, money or inclination, to keep up with technology.
It is supposed to make their lives easier, not force them to engage in some sort of "Red Queen's Race".

They expect (not unreasonably) that if they buy software and install it, it should work properly.

Word never glitches for me.

You must have extraordinary luck:

  • Explorer.exe never crashes.
  • Word doesn't glitch.

I seen those sort of things more often than I can count (on PCs at TAFE, at work and on my own PC).
That covers AMD CPUs, Intel CPUs and several different MB manufacturers.

Only last week during our TMG exercises, 4 out of 20 identical machines (<12 months old) had Explorer.exe crash during the exercise (they had all just been re-imaged a few days earlier).
Explorer.exe has only crashed 2 or 3 times on my PC (since W7 b7048).

Word is the worst when it comes to "glitchiness".
I'd estimate that something malfunctions ~25% of the times I use it.

Anecdotally, most of the students and instructors (on my Networking course) agree that Word is horribly unstable.

Interestingly enough, Excel has always been "rock solid".
I can't remember if I've ever seen it malfunction. :)
 

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    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung S23B350
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital 1.5 TB (SATA), Western Digital 2 TB (SATA), Western Digital 3 TB (SATA)
    Case
    Tower
    Mouse
    Wired Optical
    Other Info
    Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 17 MATE (64 bit) - 2014-05-17
    Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-11-13
    Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-01-14
    RAM & Graphics Card Upgraded - 2013-01-13
    Monitor Upgraded - 2012-04-20
    System Upgraded - 2011-05-21, 2010-07-14
    HDD Upgraded - 2010-08-11, 2011-08-24,

jimbo45

New Member
VIP Member
Guru
Hi there

Word DOES crash sometimes - although I have to say not particularly often and it's often caused probably by me in trying to mess about with attachments.

Explorer.exe hasn't yet crashed although IE does sometimes -- and not a big deal.

EXCEL seems remarkably stable however and I'm quite a "Power user" with VBA etc. used a lot as well as large charts etc.

As far as "Security nightmare" -- well I've NEVER had any virus on a private PC -- and I have sometime in the past used some "decent Torrent" sites (if "decent" can be applied to them. I remember in the early days of W7 to get latest builds Torrents were almost "legal" !!!!!). Security is usually caused by bad computer practices and user giving away data rather than sensibly surfing the Internet. Also if you download music to a file on a PHONE card rather than a computer you won't get your PC infected as you can scan the file before it's sync'd with the PC.

Run Windows defender -- it's just as good (or bad) as any of the other freebies out there --probably better since Ms has the resources to update the definitions frequently and issue updates as part of the normal windows update procedures.

W8 seems remarkably sensible -- I really am at a loss to understand half of the problems and BSOD's some people experience.
Legacy hardware or very leading edge stuff might cause problems but for legacy stuff you've got the possibility of running on VM's anyway.

Cheers
jimbo
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Monitor(s) Displays
    1 X LG 40 inch TV
    Hard Drives
    SSD's * 3 (Samsung 840 series) 250 GB
    2 X 3 TB sata
    5 X 1 TB sata
    Internet Speed
    0.12 GB/s (120Mb/s)

Night Hawk

New Member
VIP Member
Member
So how will MS save Windows 8 not the environment I wonder?! :roflmao:

Here I generally shutdown once done and calling it a day(or night depending on schedule). People often wonder why they have so many problems with no sound, odd sound, video annormalities when first coming out of sleep or hibernation. The solution is simple. RESTART YOUR MACHINE!

This will refresh all device drivers by emptying the active ram and freshly reload them along with Windows with the restart. Often when something else hangs or slows to a creep a fast reboot will clean it up as well. In fact while running one old game title the sound suddenly dropped off only to find the volume control on the sound card's app lowered itself for no reason! At first I thought it was simply time to recharge the batteries in the headphones until a fresh set on non rechargables were tossed in and still the sound was way low showing oddities can happen until all processes are refreshed.

As far as IE at first I couldn't even log in at one site I frequent. Lately however IE 10 has been behaving much better and is actually a bit of an improvement over IE 9! I still put WaterFox on however as the main browser while this is a plus factor for IE being seen now.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    1st W10 Professional x64/W7 Ultimate x64 - 2nd Remote system: W10 Insider Builds/W7 Professional
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom Builds
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X4 975 Deneb 3.6ghz -2nd case AMD Atholon II 3.2ghz
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte GA-790XTA-UD4
    Memory
    Kingston Hyper-X DDR3 1600mhz 16gb - 2nd case Kingston Hyper-X "Fury" DDR3 1600mhz 8gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    MSI Radeon HD 5750 1gb - 2nd AMD Radeon 6450
    Sound Card
    Creative Xtreme Gamer - 2nd case Realtek Onboard audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer 19" dual monitor setup - 2nd case HP 20" lcd
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900 same on both builds
    Hard Drives
    1st build
    WD Caviar Black Edition Sata II 1tb two OS drives
    WD RE "Heavy Duty Sata II 2tb two Storage/Backup
    2nd build
    WD Blue Sata II 500gb
    WD Black Edition Sata III 1tb
    WD Green Power Sata II 1tb in external usb enclosure
    PSU
    Corsair TX750H 750w -Corsair 500w
    Case
    Antec 900-2 -NXZT Vulcan Mini tower/carrying handle
    Cooling
    120mm front pair, 120 rear 200cm top - 120mm Front intake 200mm side cover
    Keyboard
    Azio Blue led back lit both builds.
    Mouse
    MSI DS200 11 button programmable Gaming optical mouse - Odessa 3 button dual scroll trackball
    Internet Speed
    30mbps
    Other Info
    two MSI 22x ide dvd burners, 25 usb flash drives used for Linux Live, live data recovery 128gb, and Windows 7, 10 usb installation keys

GMan

Banned
I really am at a loss to understand half of the problems and BSOD's some people experience.

No you're not. You hit the nail on the head for more than 50% of the bsods seen so far on Windows 8: 3rd party Antivirus

....and you provided the correct answer:

Run Windows defender

So +1 rep if I could, but can't.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    8250 x86 + 7 SP1 x86 + Ubuntu 12.04 LTS x86
    CPU
    P4 3.4 GHz HT
    Motherboard
    MSI-7211
    Memory
    OCZ 2 GB DDR @ 400 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    HIS AGP HD 3850 Turbo Ice-Q
    Sound Card
    MOTU Traveler firewire interface
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer x223w
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
    Hard Drives
    WD Caviar Black 1 TB Sata II, WD 400 GB Sata I, WD 120 GB Sata I
    PSU
    300W generic
    Case
    Cybertron
    Keyboard
    Logitech Classic Keyboard 200, Dell RT7D20
    Mouse
    Logitech M510
    Internet Speed
    2 MByte/sec Down, 250 KByte/sec Up

GMan

Banned
People often wonder why they have so many problems with no sound, odd sound, video annormalities when first coming out of sleep or hibernation. The solution is simple. RESTART YOUR MACHINE!

This will refresh all device drivers by emptying the active ram and freshly reload them along with Windows with the restart.

The correct answer to this is install the right/latest drivers that don't cause issues and to uninstall the junky 3rd party software with drivers (antivirus and others) that cause issues too.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    8250 x86 + 7 SP1 x86 + Ubuntu 12.04 LTS x86
    CPU
    P4 3.4 GHz HT
    Motherboard
    MSI-7211
    Memory
    OCZ 2 GB DDR @ 400 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    HIS AGP HD 3850 Turbo Ice-Q
    Sound Card
    MOTU Traveler firewire interface
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer x223w
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
    Hard Drives
    WD Caviar Black 1 TB Sata II, WD 400 GB Sata I, WD 120 GB Sata I
    PSU
    300W generic
    Case
    Cybertron
    Keyboard
    Logitech Classic Keyboard 200, Dell RT7D20
    Mouse
    Logitech M510
    Internet Speed
    2 MByte/sec Down, 250 KByte/sec Up

Pixel Eater

Member
Member
Item 3 is wrong, because whether it's a 1024x600 netbook or a 2560x1600 30 inch monitor, the new Start Menu is faster. Nobody will even try to adapt if they put the training wheels on. I wouldn't be surprised to see noobs getting around faster than vets if this is enabled.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 x64
    CPU
    Intel Q9450
    Motherboard
    Asus Rampage Formula
    Memory
    8 GB DDR2
    Graphics Card(s)
    Radeon HD 7950 OC
    Sound Card
    Auzentech X-Fi Prelude
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP ZR2740W
    PSU
    Kingwin LZW Platinum 560
    Case
    Silverstone TJ-08
    Cooling
    Nexus Real Silent
    Keyboard
    Dell GYUM95SK
    Mouse
    Logitech G500
    Internet Speed
    35 Mbit/s

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