I decided to go to my all apps screen and look for the newly installed program, which is what most people will do by the way, assuming they are able to find it. I knew perfectly well that I could type in virt.. and be done.. I wanted to find it. My all apps screen is a mosh.
> The desktop is treated as an app. < This is the clue that I think gives away the direction that they are taking.I don't understand the correlation. The desktop is an app - OK - but that means that they are going to get rid of that particular app?
HiippsieGypsie said:What may be upsetting for a lot of people is the fact that MS has not stated either way, so all are left in limbo wondering what is to be next.Right, but do you really expect them to lay out a long term vision of the future right now? Of course not. Their vision is not set in stone even in the short term, as you can see by the return of the Start button in 8.1. But we're not just talking about the removal/return of a simple button here. We're talking about the potential removal of the entire desktop, which would instantly make all desktop software going back many years unusable.
HippsieGypsie said:When I'm using my Vz/Android smart phone, I enter a walled-garden system. I do not own any of the Apple products, but I know some that do and from what I read one enters a walled-garden system. I would imagine it's the same with other systems. They are all swaying/pushing us to use their products and/or services.A walled garden only gets you so far. It has certain advantages to the end user, such as security and stability, but it reduces choice. The beauty of open systems is that I can write a piece of software, upload it, and you can download and run it on your machine. With a desktop operating system, that is vital functionality for a large number of people, including being vital to enterprise.
I do think people are basing their vision of the future on what the Metro part of Windows 8 or 8.1 is like now, so they think "imagine if Windows 9 was just this, but without the desktop". That would be awful, but that's not going to happen. Over time, the UI and usability quirks will be smoothed out, new features will be added, more apps will be added to the store that cater to people's needs and those apps will improve over time too, but even when we get to a point where there are people who will happily use only Metro apps, there will still be a need for the desktop. At worst, I see it becoming an optional component.
A walled garden only gets you so far. It has certain advantages to the end user, such as security and stability, but it reduces choice.
The big difference with Windows is, there is a TON of software out there on the web that people would no longer be able to use if the desktop disappeared. Think of all of the programmers who make a living writing software which they sell independently. All of a sudden, they have to give a cut to MS. I couldn't write a program, give it to you and have you run it on your machine. That would seriously suck in all kinds of ways. How is a business going to run custom software written in-house?Basically MS in their "remagination" themselves is simply mimicking the other two tech giants. I haven't read or heard much of iUsers complaining about the walled garden system they're in with both hardware and software. Nor Adroiders or Chromers about their apps. Now all of a sudden when MS wants to take control and wants a piece of the pie all hell breaks lose.
For now. Infected apps have been found in the Google Play store on a number of occasions. The Windows Store is not a worthwhile thing for hackers to focus on right now though.While hackers are putting bullet holes through and viruses infecting the Desktop platform via browsers, we can all safely use the Store and apps instead.
I'd rather we tackle that issue than say "all you can have from now on are whitelisted apps from this one store". Java has been the biggest attack vector for hackers in the last few years. Basically, we need to do away with plug-ins. We need to make sure that the browser runs in a sand-boxed environment.Once we open a browser, we lay ourselves open to a lot of problems of the desktop system.
The big difference with Windows is, there is a TON of software out there on the web that people would no longer be able to use if the desktop disappeared. Think of all of the programmers who make a living writing software which they sell independently. All of a sudden, they have to give a cut to MS. I couldn't write a program, give it to you and have you run it on your machine. That would seriously suck in all kinds of ways. How is a business going to run custom software written in-house?
iOS is a mobile phone and tablet OS only. It's been a walled garden from day 1. With OS X, you can install software from any source and that's a more comparable operating system to Windows. If Windows become closed so that you could only run apps from the Windows Store, while OS X remained open, I would switch to OS X in a heartbeat and the number of people doing the same would be huge.
Chrome OS is really just a web browser and isn't comparable to Windows. As for Android, you can install apps from any source, so that is more like Windows in that respect. While you can use the Google Play store, you can download an APK file from literally anywhere and Google is fine with that because you don't have to jailbreak/hack Android devices to be able to do it.
Wut?Ahh.. so you're getting upset about something without even knowing anything about it.
I don't see how this is relevant, given that today, the Windows Store is just another way to sell software, rather than being the only way. Ask Adobe or Corel how they would feel if they were no longer allowed to sell software for Windows directly on their own websites and see what they say then.Mystere said:First, Most software developers would much rather have 70% of 1,000,000 sales than 100% of 1,000 sales. That's why even companies like Adobe and Corel are writing Windows Store apps. The Windows store gives them much more exposure, and it takes away the headache of doing their own payment processing (obviously, Adobe and Corel are big enough to do it themselves, but i'm referring to smaller shops).
There's your piracy/malware enabler. "Hey, it's the security of white listed apps!.......... oh, but you can also side load apps from any source.....".Mystere said:Second, for internal development, Microsoft has a process called "Side loading" that companies can use to load apps inside their organization, without having to use the store and pay any fee.
Someone used OS X as an example of an OS that's a walled garden. It is NOT a walled garden. I know exactly what I'm talking about, thanks. OS X and iOS share some functionality, but there is no evidence that Apple are working towards a single OS for desktops, phones and tablets.Mystere said:Again, you don't seem to know much about the things you're referring to. Apple is attempting to merge iOS and OSX, and they have developed an App store for MacOS X.
Except you can download APKs from places other than the Play Store, which Google is perfectly fine with. You are NOT forced to download software from the Play Store only, therefore again, Android is NOT an example of a walled garden, which was my entire point. Just type "download APK" into Google and you'll find plenty of sites where you can directly download APKs. Sorry, but you'll have to get back to me when you know what you're talking about, which unfortunately is not today.OS X said:Actually, no. You can't install an APK from literally anywhere. The Play store encrypts APK's so they can only be installed on the device that downloaded them.
I don't see how this is relevant, given that today, the Windows Store is just another way to sell software, rather than being the only way. Ask Adobe or Corel how they would feel if they were no longer allowed to sell software for Windows directly on their own websites and see what they say then.
There's your piracy/malware enabler. "Hey, it's the security of white listed apps!.......... oh, but you can also side load apps from any source.....".
Someone used OS X as an example of an OS that's a walled garden. It is NOT a walled garden. I know exactly what I'm talking about, thanks. OS X and iOS share some functionality, but there is no evidence that Apple are working towards a single OS for desktops, phones and tablets.
Just because the above 3 operating systems all have stores of their own does not make them walled gardens.
What makes you think this? You honestly think that if Adobe could no longer sell Creative Cloud subscriptions directly to consumers because they had to go through the Windows Store and therefore pay a percentage of their earnings to Microsoft, that they would welcome that?Mystere said:Adobe and Corel are in fact working on Windows 8 versions of their apps, and will likely welcome the change if it becomes the norm.
Is it? LOL. And I didn't ignore the Mac App store. It's irrelevant though because OS X is not a walled garden. You do know what a walled garden is, yeah?Mystere said:It's clear that everyone in the industry believes that this is where Apple is going
RT, which has been dropped by every manufacturer aside from Microsoft because nobody wants it. Yeah, that's the future alright!Mystere said:No, they're BECOMING walled gardens. Certainly, the Windows 8 RT is.
Our we talking about Windows or our we talking Mac OS 10. I ask this because this is the same argument that took place when Apple switched from the old OS 5,6,7,,8, and 9 system to OS 10. It took them three years to get OS 10 cleaned up to the point that Mac users were happy. Then in 2009 they went to the App Store format, and had Mac users in an uproar over that. Ten in 2010 they added launchpad to the OS (similar to Start Screen, another uproar. The reactions to these changes are what seem to be happening with Windows 8. People just don't like change when they are comfortable with they are used to regardless of what they are used to using. The Linux World had the same problems with the addition of Unity.
Hope this is readable, really having problems with my head today. Can't seem to remember where some o f the keys are on the Keyboard, and at times I loose by train of thought. (damn took me thirty minutes to write just a couple of sentences. whew, finally done (I think).
What makes you think this? You honestly think that if Adobe could no longer sell Creative Cloud subscriptions directly to consumers because they had to go through the Windows Store and therefore pay a percentage of their earnings to Microsoft, that they would welcome that?Mystere said:Adobe and Corel are in fact working on Windows 8 versions of their apps, and will likely welcome the change if it becomes the norm.
Is it?Mystere said:It's clear that everyone in the industry believes that this is where Apple is going
RT, which has been dropped by every manufacturer aside from Microsoft because nobody wants it. Yeah, that's the future alright!Mystere said:No, they're BECOMING walled gardens. Certainly, the Windows 8 RT is.
OK, but what about answering my question?... If the Windows Store was the ONLY way for them to sell software to Windows users, meaning that MS takes a cut each time, why would they be happy about that?Because they have apps in the Windows 8 App Store, such as Photoshop Express. They also have other apps in Apple's AppStore.
Then perhaps you shouldn't use the words "no piracy".Mystere said:I'm not saying it's impossible to pirate, but i'm saying that it's not quite so simple.
I think it's strange to claim to know that every single person in the industry believes Apple is headed in one direction. How could you possibly know that to begin with? But now you're saying that it's a fact that I'm ignoring. Very strange. Perhaps you know literally every person in the tech industry and have done a survey though, lol.....Mystere said:You're simply ignoring facts if you don't understand that.
"May" means "are" in Mystere World it seems, but if Dell do bring out an RT tablet, it will probably flop just like the rest of them. When even the platform creator is talking huge multi-million dollar right-offs because they can't even give the things away, you can't really by that optimistic about Dell's chances.Mystere said:
I'm saying what would happen if the desktop were to go away as a rebuttal to someone who said "oh, it would be fine if it disappeared".
OK, but what about answering my question?... If the Windows Store was the ONLY way for them to sell software to Windows users, meaning that MS takes a cut each time, why would they be happy about that?Because they have apps in the Windows 8 App Store, such as Photoshop Express. They also have other apps in Apple's AppStore.
Then perhaps you shouldn't use the words "no piracy".Mystere said:I'm not saying it's impossible to pirate, but i'm saying that it's not quite so simple.
I think it's strange to claim to know that every single person in the industry believes Apple is headed in one direction. How could you possibly know that to begin with? But now you're saying that it's a fact that I'm ignoring. Very strange. Perhaps you know literally every person in the tech industry and have done a survey though, lol.....Mystere said:You're simply ignoring facts if you don't understand that.
But still, your argument makes no sense to begin with, because having one OS that runs on a range of devices does not mean it has to be a walled garden.
"May" means "are" in Mystere World it seemsMystere said:
but if Dell do bring out an RT tablet, it will probably flop just like the rest of them. When even the platform creator is talking huge multi-million dollar right-offs because they can't even give the things away, you can't really by that optimistic about Dell's chances.
Please don't come back and break my post down again unless you're going to provide actual facts instead of claims you cannot possibly substantiate and some "maybes". You're just arguing for the sake of it and half the time you're addressing things that aren't even relevant to the parts of my post that you're quoting.