Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums

Poor performance and errors

  1. #1

    Posts : 5
    Windows 8.1

    Poor performance and errors

    Not sure if I can post here but.

    I have been playing WoW in a 4GB Windows 7 computer for years and nothing every became problematic. The only difference is that back then the hard drive was a 7200 RPM desktop drive. Currently it is a 5400 RPM notebook drive. But prior to that, I had also been running my system off another notebook drive.

    Now. Windows 8.1.

    Whenever I just have few programs open (WoW, Opera, Thunderbir) my system will grind to a halt. This is because it starts 'thrashing the swap'. On a netbook that I had, Windows never used more than 1GB of ram. Windows 8.1 never used more than 1GB of ram. It did slow down a little at times so I put in an extra 1GB and after that I still never saw my usage rise about 1GB or 1.2GB but the system performed better.

    Now on this desktop computer with 4GB and WoW using about 1.2 GB, the performance is abysmal.

    Now when I turn the page file off, that obviously doesn't happen. But now I get out of memory errors even when there is still like 800 MB free / in the cache. Not only is it annoying to get these errors, WoW actually reports out of memory errors itself. There is RAM available but it can't allocate. That is just stupid you know. And if it does allocate, it is probably be going to allocate virtual memory off disk, in one way or another.

    Never had ANY problem playing WoW on the same computer in Windows 7.

    Now, all the time memory problems.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #2

    Posts : 123
    Windows 8.1

    You need 8 GB of RAM for Windows 8.1/10 64 bit, plus some applications, and let Windows manage the size of Paged Memory/Swap File/Cache or whatever you want to call it. If I remember correctly it's 1.5x the size of installed RAM as a default.

    I'm not at all surprised with out of memory warnings or things grinding to a halt when you operate like that. That is your own doing by restricting the size of Paged Memory and by not having enough RAM.

    Doubling the RAM will probably increase the RAM available to applications by a factor of 3 so it's a good deal.

    Stop whinging and fiddling about and put in more RAM.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #3

    Posts : 5
    Windows 8.1

    I can't put in more RAM as I don't have it and I cannot get to the mailbox to send a broken stick of RAM back, ya know? You don't know everything.

    It is just such nonsense that upgrading your Windows means you need double the RAM. When Windows doesn't even add anything new.

    Are you surprised at someone making an issue out of that? Please. Don't act like you're all that superior. You act like one of those people who thought the same before and then got stunted by it and now pretends like they always got it right from the beginning and never got burned by that. Cache is not the same thing though, it is like the opposite of a swap file.

    If you list your recommended minimum memory as 1GB for 32-bit and 2GB for 64-bit that is also pretty much a weird thing. 64-bit does double the size of ordinary primitives (integers) but not everything is an integer. Any kind of graphics or bitmap or whatever or resource is still going to be using the same amount of memory. Any string that is still a 32-bit string or unicode string of the same type is going to be using the same amount of memory. Only ordinary numbers are going to be using a different kind of memory 'amount'. Then, I'm having out of memory errors when 75% is in use.

    That means I'm getting out of memory errors when my total memory consumption is at 3GB of RAM. And now you're telling me I need 8GB to get rid of it. Currently I have 969 MB available and there is 1.1 GB in cache. And it is giving me out of memory errors. What is up with THAT?

    So you can act like you're not surprised you know but everyone would be surprised at this.

    Also it means with 1GB available of RAM it will start thrashing the hard disk when the page file is on. My performance is abysmal even if I have 1GB of RAM available. There is about 300MB "dirty", 800MB is stand-by, and 175MB is available without being in any form of cache.

    I'm just surprised you can say you are not surprised by this. That you are not surprised by this system getting on its knees, so to speak. That you are not surprised by this huge discrepancy.

    I have the game crashing on out of memory errors with 1GB of RAM available and more in the dirty cache buffer.

    Something tells me they just threw their hat at it and just want their partners to sell more RAM.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #4

    Either you really don't know, or you're just not taking into account, that each new version of Windows has a bigger footprint in RAM memory than the previous version. It also puts more load on the CPU. For instance, Windows XP came out on most PC's with less than 1GB of ram, and it wasn't very fast ram either.

    But as new OS's came out, the amount and speed of RAM and CPU's has gone up almost exponentially.
    Likewise, XP had only a few running Services, compared to how many are now left running in Windows 8.1 or 10.
    To improve performance in XP, I disabled about 20 Services, but on Windows 8.1, the number of services that I can either disable or set to Manual mode, is near 40.

    You can't just install Windows 8.1, or any OS, and expect it to perform at 100% efficiency. It does require some tweaking and tuning to get the most out of your OS.

    Finally, make sure that you don't have anything running in the background, that you don't absolutely HAVE to have running all the time.
    You can find some of those things in the Task Manager.
    The internet contains many tips for tweaking your OS and making it work more efficiently.
    The subject is too complex for me to go into it in detail here.
    It takes me about an hour, to completely set up 8.1 after I have it installed. Some tweaks can be done with scripts or batch files, but many things have to be done manually.

    Good Luck!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #5

    Posts : 5
    Windows 8.1

    Saying that this is the status quo still doesn't justify it, and doesn't mean something stupid is not going on either. That's like saying "yeah, well, each year the rent goes up, and if in the end it goes up to such an extent that it is more than your monthly income, well that is just the way it is you know? " *reaps in all the cash*.

    This really tells me that YOU are the one who is wilfully or balefully ignorant of what's going on because you in some way benefit from the process.

    Even considering that your statement may be true that Windows 8.1 requires more ram by default than does Windows 7, even though it seems to hardly introduce anything new compared to Windows 7 (apart from having to keep the Metro interface in memory), does not take away from my base argument at all.

    The fact that remains is that my system has 1GB FREE out of 4GB and yet the system complains of memory errors, which is not RIGHT AT ALL.

    The idea that Windows 8.1 requires more than Windows 7 is just a moralistic assumption you make, you do not quantify it (it is a qualitative statement, not a quantitative one) and as such "more" may very well mean "1.5 GB" instead of "1 GB" as the base usage. That is "more" but it is not more than 4GB. Considering that W7 ran fine on 2GB (assuming you are not running any games) and even laptops came equipped with 1GB, the assumption would have been that 2GB would have been plenty for W7, and running games it would have meant 4GB would have been more than sufficient. Seeing also that this particular game requires no more than 1GB of RAM at most.

    Now I have a laptop running W8.1 with 2GB of RAM because 1GB became a little on the low side. This system doesn't run games because it is a netbook but on average use even with a number of programs open the memory usage does not exceed 1.2 GB. EVer in my experience. So you can very well call 1.2 GB the base memory footprint of Windows 8.1. My current system with about the same programs open uses 2GB. I don't know why it uses so much MORE as I believe they are both 64-bit systems but I could be mistaken about that. So then let's assume 2GB is a good base with a modest amount of applications open. You won't be able to do anything fancy, but it should be enough for everyday operation.

    Then, if you add 2GB that should mean 2GB is available to applications.

    Someone here mentioned (Helmut) that adding another 4GB would triple the amount of RAM available to applications by a factor 3, (which is like tripling it ;-)) and that is correct based on these numbers. But it also means my current available RAM should be 2GB. And it isn't.

    WoW never uses more than 1GB.

    The amount of free ram on my system is always between 500 and 1000 MB. Currently I have 200 MB of swap, which is like recommended as some minimum to prevent a certain class of errors or lack of functionality, so the amount I have is now 4.2 GB. I know I run the risk of getting in trouble, but even that risk is caused by this system in the first place. Why? Because even if I have loads of RAM available, it will still start using my page file extensively. This system is just bugged and it is flawed.

    Why should I need more RAM if plenty is available? That question even doesn't make sense.

    Apparently plenty is NOT available or it just says it is but it isn't. Or the calculations are off and it just shuts down applications prior to there being a memory problem. Ie. it refuses allocation even if plenty is available just as form of precaution, which is nonsense and bullocks.

    But something is wrong. Look I am a computer programmer and I have studied operating systems, not extensively but plenty enough to know that this is just nonsense.

    Just the fact that my system will slow down to a crawl even if I have 1GB of RAM available or in non-dirty buffers, means the whole system is just geared toward selling more ram modules.

    And you can say whatever you want but that doesn't change the fact that this system is bugged.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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