Solved Windows 8.1 Maintenance on a SSD

Zabraxis

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Hello I got an SSD and installed Windows 8.1 Pro. After automatic maintenance ran I opened the windows defragmentation utility and it seemed to have defragmented my SSD. From my understanding an SSD doesn't need defragmentation and can lower the life span as well. My question did the maintenance task defragment my SSD? Should I just turn off automatic defragmentation or turn off automatic maintenance? Trim is supposed to handle an SSD's maintenance if I disable defragmentation or maintenance will trim still do it's job?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
Your SSD is not being "defragged" it's being "optimized" (another word for trimmed), so yes leave it on. Windows will trim automatically once every 28 days or so. If I have done any major updating or uninstalling/deleting I force a trim then.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Update Pro in Hyper-V/Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Cliff's Black & Blue Wonder
    CPU
    Intel Core i9-9900K
    Motherboard
    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero
    Memory
    32 GB Quad Kit, G.Skill Trident Z RGB Series schwarz, DDR4-3866, 18-19-19-39-2T
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    BenQ BL2711U(4K) and a hp 27vx(1080p)
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080 x 32 bits (4294967296 colors) @ 60 Hz
    Hard Drives
    C: Samsung 960 EVO NVMe M.2 SSD
    E: & O: Libraries & OneDrive-> Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
    D: Hyper-V VM's -> Samsung PM951 Client M.2 512Gb SSD
    G: System Images -> HDD Seagate Barracuda 2TB
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    Sound system: SHARP HT-SBW460 Dolby Atmos Soundbar
    Webcam: Logitech BRIO ULTRA HD PRO WEBCAM 4K webcam with HDR
Thanks for that information that worried me a little when Windows Optimization showed that my SSD had been optimized. May I ask how do you force a trim?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
003.png
and welcome to Eight Forums:D
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Update Pro in Hyper-V/Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Cliff's Black & Blue Wonder
    CPU
    Intel Core i9-9900K
    Motherboard
    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero
    Memory
    32 GB Quad Kit, G.Skill Trident Z RGB Series schwarz, DDR4-3866, 18-19-19-39-2T
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 ROG Strix O24G, 24576 MB GDDR6X
    Sound Card
    (1) HD Webcam C270 (2) NVIDIA High Definition Audio (3) Realtek High Definition Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    BenQ BL2711U(4K) and a hp 27vx(1080p)
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080 x 32 bits (4294967296 colors) @ 60 Hz
    Hard Drives
    C: Samsung 960 EVO NVMe M.2 SSD
    E: & O: Libraries & OneDrive-> Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
    D: Hyper-V VM's -> Samsung PM951 Client M.2 512Gb SSD
    G: System Images -> HDD Seagate Barracuda 2TB
    PSU
    Corsair HX1000i High Performance ATX Power Supply 80+ Platinum
    Case
    hanteks Enthoo Pro TG
    Cooling
    Thermaltake Floe Riing RGB TT Premium-Edition 360mm and 3 Corsair blue LED fans
    Keyboard
    Trust GTX THURA
    Mouse
    Trust GTX 148
    Internet Speed
    25+/5+ (+usually faster)
    Browser
    Edge; Chrome; IE11
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    Windows Defender of course & Malwarebytes Anti-Exploit as a
    Other Info
    Router: FRITZ!Box 7590 AX V2
    Sound system: SHARP HT-SBW460 Dolby Atmos Soundbar
    Webcam: Logitech BRIO ULTRA HD PRO WEBCAM 4K webcam with HDR

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Update Pro in Hyper-V/Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Cliff's Black & Blue Wonder
    CPU
    Intel Core i9-9900K
    Motherboard
    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero
    Memory
    32 GB Quad Kit, G.Skill Trident Z RGB Series schwarz, DDR4-3866, 18-19-19-39-2T
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 ROG Strix O24G, 24576 MB GDDR6X
    Sound Card
    (1) HD Webcam C270 (2) NVIDIA High Definition Audio (3) Realtek High Definition Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    BenQ BL2711U(4K) and a hp 27vx(1080p)
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080 x 32 bits (4294967296 colors) @ 60 Hz
    Hard Drives
    C: Samsung 960 EVO NVMe M.2 SSD
    E: & O: Libraries & OneDrive-> Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
    D: Hyper-V VM's -> Samsung PM951 Client M.2 512Gb SSD
    G: System Images -> HDD Seagate Barracuda 2TB
    PSU
    Corsair HX1000i High Performance ATX Power Supply 80+ Platinum
    Case
    hanteks Enthoo Pro TG
    Cooling
    Thermaltake Floe Riing RGB TT Premium-Edition 360mm and 3 Corsair blue LED fans
    Keyboard
    Trust GTX THURA
    Mouse
    Trust GTX 148
    Internet Speed
    25+/5+ (+usually faster)
    Browser
    Edge; Chrome; IE11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender of course & Malwarebytes Anti-Exploit as a
    Other Info
    Router: FRITZ!Box 7590 AX V2
    Sound system: SHARP HT-SBW460 Dolby Atmos Soundbar
    Webcam: Logitech BRIO ULTRA HD PRO WEBCAM 4K webcam with HDR
...At the start of 8.1 there were a lot of bloggers that put out some misconceptions about the optimize utility

Microsoft themselves themselves were to blame for that by not answering questions many of us were asking regarding Windows defragmenting SSD's. All we got from Microsoft was either incorrect information (I.E. denial) or no response at all.

Back in 2012 when Windows 8 RTM'd, I noticed Windows defragging a SSD. Despite everyone saying that Windows (Optimise Drives) doesn't defrag SSD's and that it only performs TRIM on them, I knew this was incorrect as I watched Windows perform a full 6-pass defrag of my SSD during 'Automatic Maintenance' with my own eyes. This was despite Windows recognising it as a Solid State Drive. I still have the screenshot (see below).

It took Microsoft (or at least a Microsoft employee, not Microsoft themselves) until December 2014 to acknowledge that Windows does indeed sometimes defrag SSD's, and that it is deliberate. You can read the blog post at the following link, where Scott Hanselman (a Microsoft Employee) confirms that Windows does in fact sometimes defrag SSD's:

The real and complete story - Does Windows defragment your SSD? - Scott Hanselman

Personally I'd like to see more official documentation direct from Microsoft themselves though. A blog post on a non-Microsoft website doesn't really instill much confidence...

Defrag.jpg
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win 8 64-bit
I'm sorry but even if windows tried to defrag an SSD, it wouldn't put any thing in a contiguous line because the SSD controller "Lies" to the OS to make it think it's a HDD. From one of the comments:
I'd wager that SSD controllers are vastly different, one from another, in how they read/write the NAND than HDD controllers, which support the current generations of platter and head technology.

That controller, implementing multiple channels (as many as 32 in even prosumer drives) to the multiple die under various rubrics (RAISE in SandForce speak), moves the data around as needed for wear leveling. Some controllers level more aggressively than others, but the basic structure remains the same: there is no, on purpose, contiguous (i.e., sequential) storage in an SSD. The bits are strewn over available dies by the controller in the way it finds most efficient.

The extent to which sequential reads appear faster than random reads is due to SSD resident caching (sometimes DRAM, sometimes NAND) and read-ahead, not defragging.

My guess, and it's only that since I don't write Windows code, is that the defrag process only gets as far as the FTL in the SSD controller. As such, the NAND die never see the process.

Which on can find this information on serious tech sites and manufacturer sites, not blog posts.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Update Pro in Hyper-V/Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Cliff's Black & Blue Wonder
    CPU
    Intel Core i9-9900K
    Motherboard
    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero
    Memory
    32 GB Quad Kit, G.Skill Trident Z RGB Series schwarz, DDR4-3866, 18-19-19-39-2T
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 ROG Strix O24G, 24576 MB GDDR6X
    Sound Card
    (1) HD Webcam C270 (2) NVIDIA High Definition Audio (3) Realtek High Definition Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    BenQ BL2711U(4K) and a hp 27vx(1080p)
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080 x 32 bits (4294967296 colors) @ 60 Hz
    Hard Drives
    C: Samsung 960 EVO NVMe M.2 SSD
    E: & O: Libraries & OneDrive-> Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
    D: Hyper-V VM's -> Samsung PM951 Client M.2 512Gb SSD
    G: System Images -> HDD Seagate Barracuda 2TB
    PSU
    Corsair HX1000i High Performance ATX Power Supply 80+ Platinum
    Case
    hanteks Enthoo Pro TG
    Cooling
    Thermaltake Floe Riing RGB TT Premium-Edition 360mm and 3 Corsair blue LED fans
    Keyboard
    Trust GTX THURA
    Mouse
    Trust GTX 148
    Internet Speed
    25+/5+ (+usually faster)
    Browser
    Edge; Chrome; IE11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender of course & Malwarebytes Anti-Exploit as a
    Other Info
    Router: FRITZ!Box 7590 AX V2
    Sound system: SHARP HT-SBW460 Dolby Atmos Soundbar
    Webcam: Logitech BRIO ULTRA HD PRO WEBCAM 4K webcam with HDR
Some optimization programs claim they’ll consolidate free space by moving data around on your solid-state drive with an intelligent algorithm. In a world where this was possible, the results of this would vary from drive to drive. Some firmwares may wait too long before using their own free space consolidation process. Benchmarks run of solid-state free space consolidation utilities against different firmwares would likely show inconsistent results, as the difference will depend on how good a job each drive’s firmware was doing. In general, a drive’s firmware would probably do a decent enough job that you wouldn’t need to run an optimization program that does this for you. Such programs will also result in additional writes — if a drive waits too long, it may do so to minimize the amount of writes to the drive. it’s a trade-off between free space consolidation and write avoidance.

However, there’s another catch here: The drive controller itself handles the mapping of physical cells on the SSD to logical sectors presented to the operating system. Only the SSD controller really knows where the cells are located. It’s possible that the drive might present logical sectors to the operating system that may be next to each other for the operating system’s purposes, but far away from each other on the actual physical SSD. For this reason, using any sort of software program to consolidate free space is likely a bad idea — the program doesn’t really know what’s going on behind the SSD controller.

This will all vary from drive to drive and firmware to firmware. Some firmwares may present sectors to the operating system in a way that maps to how they appear on the other drive, while aggressive optimizations on other drives may result in very large distances between sectors on the main drive. There may be some drives with controllers that present the sectors how they appear on the drive and with bad free space consolidation algorithms — such third-party tools may work well on such drives, but don’t count on it.
Source
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Update Pro in Hyper-V/Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Cliff's Black & Blue Wonder
    CPU
    Intel Core i9-9900K
    Motherboard
    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero
    Memory
    32 GB Quad Kit, G.Skill Trident Z RGB Series schwarz, DDR4-3866, 18-19-19-39-2T
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS GeForce RTX 3090 ROG Strix O24G, 24576 MB GDDR6X
    Sound Card
    (1) HD Webcam C270 (2) NVIDIA High Definition Audio (3) Realtek High Definition Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    BenQ BL2711U(4K) and a hp 27vx(1080p)
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080 x 32 bits (4294967296 colors) @ 60 Hz
    Hard Drives
    C: Samsung 960 EVO NVMe M.2 SSD
    E: & O: Libraries & OneDrive-> Samsung 850 EVO 1TB
    D: Hyper-V VM's -> Samsung PM951 Client M.2 512Gb SSD
    G: System Images -> HDD Seagate Barracuda 2TB
    PSU
    Corsair HX1000i High Performance ATX Power Supply 80+ Platinum
    Case
    hanteks Enthoo Pro TG
    Cooling
    Thermaltake Floe Riing RGB TT Premium-Edition 360mm and 3 Corsair blue LED fans
    Keyboard
    Trust GTX THURA
    Mouse
    Trust GTX 148
    Internet Speed
    25+/5+ (+usually faster)
    Browser
    Edge; Chrome; IE11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender of course & Malwarebytes Anti-Exploit as a
    Other Info
    Router: FRITZ!Box 7590 AX V2
    Sound system: SHARP HT-SBW460 Dolby Atmos Soundbar
    Webcam: Logitech BRIO ULTRA HD PRO WEBCAM 4K webcam with HDR
Yeah i was just looking at that i watched my optimize and it said trimming just like Cliff explained.

Yes, it will. And when it does it shows "X% Trimmed" for a few seconds whilst it sends the retrim info to the SSD. But Windows sometimes defrags as well.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win 8 64-bit
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