Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums

ssd lesson learned

  1. #1


    Posts : 31
    Windows 8

    ssd lesson learned


    I just installed an intel 530 ssd 240 gig. intel data migration tool worked great in clone mode.
    c drive size 82 gigs win 8.1 (I keep all my data on another drive and cleared all my temp files).
    an hour later I plugged it in as C: and it works great.
    One big mistake I made was not disabling defrag.
    it locked up my computer. had to reboot and disabled it in the task scheduler and defrag settings.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #2


    Posts : 61
    Windows 8.1 32-Bit


    Usually, when setting it up from scatch, Windows detects the SSD and disables defrag.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #3


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there

    Perhaps a little explanation of why it's totally UNNECESSARY to defrag an SSD.

    A lot of people don't understand what defrag is - so a quick 101 explanation (technical geeks - might not be 100% TECHNICALLY accurate but it's 100% CONCEPTUALLY OK so people can get an understanding of what it is).

    A normal Hard Disk (not an SSD) is essentially divided into physical areas - could be called sectors or heads / track numbers but if you have a HDD with several heads and tracks these are converted (internally) also to sector numbers.

    The OS creates a FILE SYSTEM which for Windows is the NTFS file system (OK FAT32 etc but the principle is the same). What this does is to allocate some of the disk sectors as space for Directories (or folders). Now when you create a folder the details of how big it is, how many individual data records it has etc are stored in this directory space.

    So now you want to access a record in directory X -- say you have a music track you want to play from a folder called album X.

    The Hard disk has to move the reading arm first to the physical sector where the list of Directories are and read the data of the directory you want to access, then it needs to move the arm again to the details of the particular file you want to read and finally it has to move the arm again to the data position.

    To start with all the areas are in continuous chunks but as the disk gets filled or the file size gets bigger the OS has to use more sectors to describe the file, and its location and data. These means considerably more disk arm movements and read accesses.

    The physical movement of the HDD mechanism is what takes up most of the access time - and that is what defrag does = to re-arrange all the physical sectors of files that it can so that they are mainly continuous reducing the movement time (or what's known as SEEK time).

    With an SSD there's no PHYSICAL movement so all the file details are essentially stored in an index table (or array if you are a programmer). Access times can be almost zero - especially with decent search algorithms (binary sort etc etc).

    Read times for an SSD are so fast that any amount of re-organisation is meaningless - and of course there is no physical movement (the longest part of HDD access).

    So Defrag not only is UNNECESSARY on an SSD - it's ILLOGICAL to do it anyway and it probably would result in WORSE performance for a while during the time the access algorithms were being re-optimized.

    There's always reasonably sensible explanations for doing things with pieces of equipment - go back to the basics and you'll understand and enjoy using it a lot more.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #4


    Quote Originally Posted by Goldy View Post
    I just installed an intel 530 ssd 240 gig. intel data migration tool worked great in clone mode.
    c drive size 82 gigs win 8.1 (I keep all my data on another drive and cleared all my temp files).
    an hour later I plugged it in as C: and it works great.
    One big mistake I made was not disabling defrag.
    it locked up my computer. had to reboot and disabled it in the task scheduler and defrag settings.
    When cloning you get what you had before, no less, no more so it stayed same as on HDD. Did you change SATA from IDE to AHCI, it's important for proper operation of SSD ?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #5


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    In windows 8, Defrag detects your SSD and will not run a defrag, but it will execute a TRIM command, which optimizes your SSD's garbage collection (SSD's don't fully delete things until a TRIM operation occurs).

    However, apparently there is a bug that can cause Windows to try to defrag as well as TRIM. You can read more about this here:

    Why Windows 8 and 8.1 defragment your SSD and how you can avoid this ? ????? ???????

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Perhaps a little explanation of why it's totally UNNECESSARY to defrag an SSD.
    [...]
    So Defrag not only is UNNECESSARY on an SSD - it's ILLOGICAL to do it anyway and it probably would result in WORSE performance for a while during the time the access algorithms were being re-optimized.
    While it's true that you don't want to Defrag an SSD, you do use the Defrag tool in Windows to perform an ESSENTIAL maintenance function on SSD drives. So you do run a defrag on an SSD (as in running the Defrag tool), it's just doing a TRIM operation.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #6


    As long as AHCI and Trim are enabled (they go hand in hand) there's nothing that needs to be done manually.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #7


    India
    Posts : 1,536
    Win 8.1 Update x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    However, apparently there is a bug that can cause Windows to try to defrag as well as TRIM. You can read more about this here:

    Why Windows 8 and 8.1 defragment your SSD and how you can avoid this ? ????? ???????
    I've created that task manually after I got my new SSD, Got to see this wonderful article back then
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #8


    Posts : 25
    WIN8.1/Server 2012 R2/Win 7 Ultimate


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there

    A lot of people don't understand what defrag is - so a quick 101 explanation (technical geeks - might not be 100% TECHNICALLY accurate but it's 100% CONCEPTUALLY OK so people can get an understanding of what it is).

    jimbo
    In a worse case scenario you may be right but the computer is smart enough to but file and directory data close together and most usually have lots of buffer memory so when it reads stuff in it keeps it in the buffer until it is needed for something else. Chance is the file data is in the buffer when it reads the directory so just needs to go to the actual file and even some of that may be in the buffer.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #9


    Posts : 31
    Windows 8


    Thanks, I re-established task scheduler as needed in the article and unchecked c in defrag and added the new trim task in TS. seems to be working fine now. the SSD is ahci. but where do you adjust trim?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #10


    Quote Originally Posted by Goldy View Post
    Thanks, I re-established task scheduler as needed in the article and unchecked c in defrag and added the new trim task in TS. seems to be working fine now. the SSD is ahci. but where do you adjust trim?
    You don't have to adjust the Trim just make sure it's on. Windows and FW in SSD will use it when necessary even if it's not in maintenance schedule.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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ssd lesson learned
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