Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows 8 - Windows 7 file recovery - System Repair Media

  1. #11


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by Theo View Post
    Having recently purchased an Ultrabook, with Windows 8 (64), without a CD/DVD writer/reader, I have been investigating means of backing up my operating system.

    I have tried out the most popular programs, such as Acronis, and Paragon, which are reported as being compatible with Windows 8; but have found that they do not work, with Secure Boot enabled!

    Furthermore, even with Secure Boot disabled, I have not been able to boot, using a CD, via an external USB CD/DVD writer/reader!
    I can boot with Acronis, from a Flash drive, but only with Secure Boot disabled.

    My preference is not to play around with the BIOS - Enabling/Disabling Secure Boot!

    Given this, after further investigation, I have discovered the ability to produce an image, using the inclusive Windows 8 facility; namely, the inappropriately named "Windows 7 File Recovery"!

    Accessed via the Control Panel, this gives you the ability to create a "System Image" and a "System Repair Disc"; but not a "System Repair Flash Drive"!

    Having created a "System Image", and a "System Repair Disc", using this facility, I have discovered that my Ultrabook will not boot from the "System Repair Disc"! NOT even with "Secure Boot" disabled!

    Given that Acronis would only boot from a Flash Drive, I was wondering whether there was a method for creating the Recovery Media, for "Windows 7 File Recovery" on a Flash drive!

    I would be grateful for advice on this matter!
    Hi there
    Acronis if fine with secure boot disabled. After the restore simply re-enable the secure boot back in the BIOS -- no problem at all.

    All the secure boot does is to prevent an Unsigned (i.e non Microsoft) non Windows 8 OS system boot.

    You'll find the same thing if you try and boot say Windows 7 / XP or any Linux systems.

    Until the OS signatures are loaded into the BIOS you'll get this with any non Windows 8 OS you try and boot unless you temporarily disable the protected boot. Not likely to happen with some 3rd party software like paragon / macrium / acronis etc.

    Acronis I KNOW does work with UEFI --you just have to disable the protected boot.

    It's a little bit of a pain but if you disable and then re-enable secured boot then everything is 100% kosher and will work fine.

    HP envy laptops are another brand that seem to go for protected UEFI boot too. I've had the problem as well with these laptops but disabling temporarily the protected boot allows you to boot the stand alone OS from a USB drive etc.

    Don't worry about changing the BIOS when making a recovery from a stand alone restore -- it actually doesn't "contaminate your system" in any way whatsoever. Simply re-set again after your image restore.

    I wouldn't rely 100% on the Windows image working properly either -- I've heard too many cases where it fails on restore. I have yet to encounter a single problem with Acronis restore.

    Cheers
    jimbo

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #12


    Posts : 27
    Windows 8.1


    Hi Jimbo

    Thank you for this advice; I shall try this out!

    For your information, I have been in discussion with Acronis about this subject! They have confirmed that you have to disable the Secure Boot!

    I have pointed out to them that they are possibly infringing UK laws; specifically, the Sales of Goods Act, which does not allow false claims. On the Acronis UK site, they specify in system requirements that it is fully compatible with Windows 8 - All versions, not mentioning the fact you have to disable Secure Boot - Understand that they are looking into this - It is (or was, last time I looked) not even mentioned in Known Issues, or in the documentation.

    Perhaps, I am wrong, but I think that it is a little unfair to expect typical non expert users to play around with the BIOS; unless the seller makes this clear in the sales literature!
    Last edited by Theo; 09 Jan 2013 at 12:16.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #13


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by Theo View Post
    Hi Jimbo

    Thank you for this advice; I shall try this out!

    For your information, I have been in discussion with Acronis about this subject! They have confirmed that you have to disable the Secure Boot!

    I have pointed out to them that they are possibly infringing UK laws; specifically, the Sales of Goods Act, which does not allow false claims. On the Acronis UK site, they specify in system requirements that it is fully compatible with Windows 8 - All versions, not mentioning the fact you have to disable Secure Boot - Understand that they are looking into this - It is (or was, last time I looked) not even mentioned in Known Issues, or in the documentation.

    Perhaps, I am wrong, but I think that it is a little unfair to expect typical non expert users to play around with the BIOS; unless the seller makes this clear in the sales literature!
    Hi there

    I think the issue is really with Microsoft as one has to consider why they should have to get OEM's to WRITE to a Machine's BIOS before the customer buys it in order to provide a mechanism to prevent "Unsigned" I.e Non Microsoft approved O/S'es" from booting.

    I don't have issues with Ms protecting their OS against authorized distribution or just plain pirating -- but IMO a far better way of doing this fairly would be for you at Windows Install time to have to enter the Machine ID (either CPU / MOBO serial number) or some other UNIQUE number generated by your actual hardware which could be hashed with your Windows Product key to provide a unique identifier which wouldn't work on another machine.

    On a "Stand alone" restore of a Windows 8 system the system could prompt you at WINDOWS BOOT TIME for the unique serial number you entered when you installed Windows -- and if valid the restore would continue and restore your image.

    It's not absolutely cast iron - but then nothing is - but this type of approach would resolve 99.9% of Piracy issues. -- It does need some UNIQUE hardware serial number to be provided by the components of your system that could be checked and verified by the validation routine before the boot continues.

    Ms or any other manufacturer shouldn't be able to "Tamper" with Machine BIOS's IMO. There might even be a case here for "Anti Monopoly" legislation -- but of course you CAN disable the secure boot so the Lawyers again have "Wriggle room" --don't they always? !!

    Note this is nothing against UEFI principle but the whole "Protected Boot" nonsense. UEFI with GPT is needed as Disks get larger and larger. 3 TB disks are quite common these days where you'll need GPT -- but that's another issue.

    Acronis etc can't really be blamed for Ms's "little peccadillos".

    Cheers
    jimbo
    Last edited by jimbo45; 10 Jan 2013 at 04:41.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #14


    Posts : 5,592
    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1


    Secure boot: technical types spreading half-baked information

    Linux distributions are making slow progress on implementing measures to ensure that their images available for download are bootable on hardware that has secure boot turned on.


    Secure boot is a feature of the UEFI, the Unified Extensible Firmware Interface, a replacement for the BIOS.

    Microsoft has implemented this feature on hardware certified for Windows 8 in a way that requires the exchange of cryptographic keys; since the company controls the key-signing authority, anyone who wants to create a bootable medium has to necessarily obtain a key from Redmond.

    Misinformation is rife about secure boot, simply because people confuse UEFI with secure boot and think that support for the former means support for the latter. Many so-called technical types are as guilty as others of spreading wrong information.
    mjg59 | Secure Boot distribution support


    “Microsoft's real aim is to kill the aftermarket in used computers that have Win 8 installed by not allowing you to install something other than Windows”
    Microsoft could just have refused to sign UEFI bootloaders. They didn't. That doesn't really fit in with what you're claiming.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Windows 8 - Windows 7 file recovery - System Repair Media
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