Solved W8 cannot see <some> devices on the network

TheAncient

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Hi there,
I just started playing with my new Windows 8 machine but I am having problems accessing <some> devices on the network:
The W8 machine can see: itself, Router, Win7 desktop, wireless printer, wireless camera
It canNOT see: XP desktop, XP laptop, Print server, NAS
All of devices on the network (including the W8 machine) are visible from both XP machines and from my Windows 7 machine .

Things I tried / verified:
All machines are in the same workgroup (no Homegroup)
All machines have the same date / time
I can ping Windows 7 machine, both XP machines, NAS, Print Server from Windows 8 machine
Using "Wireless network watcher" from Nirsoft, I can see ALL devices from the W8 machine
EDIT: I just found out, the problem only occurs when connecting over Wifi (either 2.4 or 5GHz). When I connect with an Ethernet cable, all devices are visible.

Network sharing on Windows 8 machine is turned ON
Network discovery on Windows 8 machine is ON
Password-protected sharing on Windows 8 machine is turned OFF
File and printer sharing on Windows 8 machine is turned ON

Firewall on XP desktop machine is turned off (temporarily - for testing purposes only)

Any ideas what else I could try to beat Windows 8 into submission?
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    2 x W7-64, W81-64, W10-64, 2 x NAS (Samba), and a partridge in a pear tree
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    me / Lots of them
    CPU
    You really should make allowances for multiple systems
    Motherboard
    A different one for each computer
    Memory
    I forgot
    Graphics Card(s)
    Yup: got some of those
    Sound Card
    I hear noooothing (Sgt Schultz)

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro WMC
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home built
    CPU
    Q9650 @ 4.05 GHz
    Motherboard
    Gforce 780i SLI FTW
    Memory
    8GB Gskill DDR2 1200Mhz
    Graphics Card(s)
    GTX-480
    Sound Card
    Asus D2 Xonar
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HannsG
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
    Hard Drives
    Gskill 120GB SSD
    PSU
    Thermal Take 1000watts
    Case
    Thermal Take Xtreme
    Cooling
    9 fans air cooled
    Keyboard
    G15 logitech
    Mouse
    G9 logitech
    Internet Speed
    50mbps
@Chev 65:
I just verified that the problem only occurs when connecting over Wifi. When I connect using a cable, all machines are visible. I updated my post to include this information.
Does this new information change your answer in any way?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    2 x W7-64, W81-64, W10-64, 2 x NAS (Samba), and a partridge in a pear tree
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    me / Lots of them
    CPU
    You really should make allowances for multiple systems
    Motherboard
    A different one for each computer
    Memory
    I forgot
    Graphics Card(s)
    Yup: got some of those
    Sound Card
    I hear noooothing (Sgt Schultz)
Ok didn't realize it was only with WiFi.

Only through WiFi would tend to point to the router as the problem.

What type of security and encryption are you using for the wireless?

Have you tried a firmware update on the router or just resetting the router?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro WMC
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home built
    CPU
    Q9650 @ 4.05 GHz
    Motherboard
    Gforce 780i SLI FTW
    Memory
    8GB Gskill DDR2 1200Mhz
    Graphics Card(s)
    GTX-480
    Sound Card
    Asus D2 Xonar
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HannsG
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
    Hard Drives
    Gskill 120GB SSD
    PSU
    Thermal Take 1000watts
    Case
    Thermal Take Xtreme
    Cooling
    9 fans air cooled
    Keyboard
    G15 logitech
    Mouse
    G9 logitech
    Internet Speed
    50mbps
@Chev 65:
I only found out this morning that things worked properly on a cabled connection.
Encryption is WPA2 personal on a brand-new Asus RT-AC66U dual band gigabit router which did, indeed, need a firmware update. (Yeah, I should know better than to introduce multiple new components at the same time!).
Unfortunately, even after the firmware update and a reboot of the router and of the W8 machine, the missing devices did not show up. (Windows is rather slow in discovering devices on the network so I am not giving up on it yet - a wait time of 20 minutes is usually prudent)
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    2 x W7-64, W81-64, W10-64, 2 x NAS (Samba), and a partridge in a pear tree
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    me / Lots of them
    CPU
    You really should make allowances for multiple systems
    Motherboard
    A different one for each computer
    Memory
    I forgot
    Graphics Card(s)
    Yup: got some of those
    Sound Card
    I hear noooothing (Sgt Schultz)
Is Universal Plug and Play enabled on the router?

You should definitely be able to see the XP machines straight away provided they are in the same Workgroup, you might try turning off simple file sharing on the XP machines, also running the network set up wizard on the XP machines might make them appear on the network.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro WMC
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home built
    CPU
    Q9650 @ 4.05 GHz
    Motherboard
    Gforce 780i SLI FTW
    Memory
    8GB Gskill DDR2 1200Mhz
    Graphics Card(s)
    GTX-480
    Sound Card
    Asus D2 Xonar
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HannsG
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
    Hard Drives
    Gskill 120GB SSD
    PSU
    Thermal Take 1000watts
    Case
    Thermal Take Xtreme
    Cooling
    9 fans air cooled
    Keyboard
    G15 logitech
    Mouse
    G9 logitech
    Internet Speed
    50mbps
UPnP is enabled.
I agree: I "should" be able to see the XP machines as well as the print server and the NAS - but so far, I am unable to do so.
Since ALL devices show up properly when I use a wired connection, I do not believe fiddling with the settings on the XP machines will add anything (besides, the print server and the NAS don't have a setting for simple file sharing or a network setup wizard)
I did notice that the geniuses who built this machine only installed the drivers supplied with the motherboard and did not update those drivers. (no wonder: it takes forever to download drivers from the Gigabyte site). I will be downloading the latest drivers overnight and install them tomorrow. I will report back if this resolves the problem.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    2 x W7-64, W81-64, W10-64, 2 x NAS (Samba), and a partridge in a pear tree
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    me / Lots of them
    CPU
    You really should make allowances for multiple systems
    Motherboard
    A different one for each computer
    Memory
    I forgot
    Graphics Card(s)
    Yup: got some of those
    Sound Card
    I hear noooothing (Sgt Schultz)
I was referring to the XP machine and it makes no difference if the NAS or printer have a simple file sharing option.

My point was that with simple file sharing enabled on the XP machine it will cause problems with shares on other machines. It's a common solution for this exact problem and in some cases it works.

Besides that I'm quite certain that this problem is from the routers settings, the wireless may be part of a separate network, there are specific settings for this on some routers. Might be called network isolation or something not sure.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro WMC
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home built
    CPU
    Q9650 @ 4.05 GHz
    Motherboard
    Gforce 780i SLI FTW
    Memory
    8GB Gskill DDR2 1200Mhz
    Graphics Card(s)
    GTX-480
    Sound Card
    Asus D2 Xonar
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HannsG
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
    Hard Drives
    Gskill 120GB SSD
    PSU
    Thermal Take 1000watts
    Case
    Thermal Take Xtreme
    Cooling
    9 fans air cooled
    Keyboard
    G15 logitech
    Mouse
    G9 logitech
    Internet Speed
    50mbps
Update: I applied all updates offered by the Gigabyte "Download Center", I then applied additional driver updates offered by "Slimdrivers Free", rebooted and let it run for a couple of hours but still no dice: the devices still do not show.
I don't get it: Why does Nirsoft's "Wireless Network Watcher" see those devices but Windows8 Explorer does not? If one piece of software sees the devices, they are obviously there. If the other piece of software does not see them, I have to conclude that that software is flawed. I am running out of straws to grasp at.
PS.: I double-checked the settings on the XP machines and Simple File Sharing is already turned off.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    2 x W7-64, W81-64, W10-64, 2 x NAS (Samba), and a partridge in a pear tree
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    me / Lots of them
    CPU
    You really should make allowances for multiple systems
    Motherboard
    A different one for each computer
    Memory
    I forgot
    Graphics Card(s)
    Yup: got some of those
    Sound Card
    I hear noooothing (Sgt Schultz)
It sounds like this router is using a guest account or DMZ host for the wireless which would put all wireless machines outside the regular network.

Everything I've read about this problem points to the router as the culprit but I can't see the settings from here and all routers have a different user interface which makes it difficult to give precise instructions.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro WMC
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home built
    CPU
    Q9650 @ 4.05 GHz
    Motherboard
    Gforce 780i SLI FTW
    Memory
    8GB Gskill DDR2 1200Mhz
    Graphics Card(s)
    GTX-480
    Sound Card
    Asus D2 Xonar
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HannsG
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
    Hard Drives
    Gskill 120GB SSD
    PSU
    Thermal Take 1000watts
    Case
    Thermal Take Xtreme
    Cooling
    9 fans air cooled
    Keyboard
    G15 logitech
    Mouse
    G9 logitech
    Internet Speed
    50mbps
The Router is an Asus RT-AC66U dual band gigabit router. I have not found a place where the user manual is directly accessible online but can be downloaded from ASUSTeK Computer Inc. -Support- Drivers and Download RT-AC66U Unfortunately, the user manual does not even mention the DMZ.
There is a manual that specifically deals with the DMZ at ASUSTeK Computer Inc. -Support- In my case the DMZ is NOT turned on.
I tried one more experiment: I connected via a wired connection and mapped a drive on the NAS. I then logged off and re-connected using a wireless connection: "The network path was not found" - Strange!
I am still not convinced the router is at fault here: If the "Wireless Network Watcher" can see those devices, they are obviously on the network, working, and discoverable. The wireless network watcher doesn't just make that information up. (interestingly, all the missing devices are actually connected via wired connections rather than wireless)
If the devices are working and are discoverable, the router must be doing its job. The fact that I can see those devices if I use a wired connection, also seems to confirm that the router is doing its job.
In my opinion, the problem likely is somewhere on the Windows 8 machine - specifically some setting or some driver that has something to do with the wireless connection.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    2 x W7-64, W81-64, W10-64, 2 x NAS (Samba), and a partridge in a pear tree
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    me / Lots of them
    CPU
    You really should make allowances for multiple systems
    Motherboard
    A different one for each computer
    Memory
    I forgot
    Graphics Card(s)
    Yup: got some of those
    Sound Card
    I hear noooothing (Sgt Schultz)
I'm curios, after you did the firmware update, did you set the router back to defaults then perform a reset, this is sometimes required to get firmware updates to work correctly. Mostly all good reviews on your router.

About the only complaints I saw with this router was the firmware updates were doing some strange things unless you reset the router to defaults after the update, but nothing specifically about wireless devices having access problems.

I've never had a problem with my Windows 8 machine seeing other wireless devices and don't know of any special settings to allow for this.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro WMC
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home built
    CPU
    Q9650 @ 4.05 GHz
    Motherboard
    Gforce 780i SLI FTW
    Memory
    8GB Gskill DDR2 1200Mhz
    Graphics Card(s)
    GTX-480
    Sound Card
    Asus D2 Xonar
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HannsG
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
    Hard Drives
    Gskill 120GB SSD
    PSU
    Thermal Take 1000watts
    Case
    Thermal Take Xtreme
    Cooling
    9 fans air cooled
    Keyboard
    G15 logitech
    Mouse
    G9 logitech
    Internet Speed
    50mbps
That's one thing I did not try. I'll give that a shot when I have time. Unfortunately that won't be until at least tomorrow.
One other thing, in case you're curious: Until earlier today I had been connecting via the 5GHz connection. I just switched to the 2.4GHz connection and it is doing the same thing.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    2 x W7-64, W81-64, W10-64, 2 x NAS (Samba), and a partridge in a pear tree
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    me / Lots of them
    CPU
    You really should make allowances for multiple systems
    Motherboard
    A different one for each computer
    Memory
    I forgot
    Graphics Card(s)
    Yup: got some of those
    Sound Card
    I hear noooothing (Sgt Schultz)
That's one thing I did not try. I'll give that a shot when I have time. Unfortunately that won't be until at least tomorrow.
One other thing, in case you're curious: Until earlier today I had been connecting via the 5GHz connection. I just switched to the 2.4GHz connection and it is doing the same thing.

I was wondering about trying 2.4GHz or 5GHz but looks like that isn't the problem.

I'm more curious about what the actual problem might be here and looking forward to some type of resolution.

If you have any type of third party Anti Virus software or firewall installed, that would be my next choice for causing this problem.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro WMC
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home built
    CPU
    Q9650 @ 4.05 GHz
    Motherboard
    Gforce 780i SLI FTW
    Memory
    8GB Gskill DDR2 1200Mhz
    Graphics Card(s)
    GTX-480
    Sound Card
    Asus D2 Xonar
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HannsG
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
    Hard Drives
    Gskill 120GB SSD
    PSU
    Thermal Take 1000watts
    Case
    Thermal Take Xtreme
    Cooling
    9 fans air cooled
    Keyboard
    G15 logitech
    Mouse
    G9 logitech
    Internet Speed
    50mbps
I followed your suggestion and re-set router to factory settings, manually set it up again, rebooted, etc. and still nothing! (Well - "something": two unknown cell-phones had somehow snuck onto the network in that brief moment when it was unprotected. I explicitly blocked those using MAC address filtering)
Somewhat peeved, I shut off each and every device that had anything to do with computers and gave them a rest. Several hours later I started powering devices on again: modem, router, switches, print server, W7 machine, XP machine, NAS, W8 machine. Now - big drum roll - ALL devices were showing BUT for some reason the NAS, while visible, was not actually accessible.
Since access to that device is vital, I started over:
I again shut off everything and gave it a bit of a rest. I then powered everything on again. Now comes the disappointing part: all the "questionable" devices (XP machines, NAS, Print Server) had disappeared again and no longer showed up in Explorer. In other words, my moment of triumph had only lasted for a very brief period of time and I am right back to where I started.
I tried one other thing: I installed a copy of Cisco's "Network Magic Pro" (This software is no longer available). It had no problem finding all devices on the network and drawing a network map.
Also: The W8 machine has no 3rd party AV or firewall - just whatever comes with Windows 8 ("Defender")
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    2 x W7-64, W81-64, W10-64, 2 x NAS (Samba), and a partridge in a pear tree
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    me / Lots of them
    CPU
    You really should make allowances for multiple systems
    Motherboard
    A different one for each computer
    Memory
    I forgot
    Graphics Card(s)
    Yup: got some of those
    Sound Card
    I hear noooothing (Sgt Schultz)
For the NAS access problem the first link I posted might get you in, if that is still a problem.

About all I can suggest is a router reset and trying again as that seems to be the only thing working.

Those cell phones it picked up might just be your own phones, Windows can pick them up even if they are not connected to your network.

I hope those aren't managed switches you are using.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro WMC
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home built
    CPU
    Q9650 @ 4.05 GHz
    Motherboard
    Gforce 780i SLI FTW
    Memory
    8GB Gskill DDR2 1200Mhz
    Graphics Card(s)
    GTX-480
    Sound Card
    Asus D2 Xonar
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HannsG
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
    Hard Drives
    Gskill 120GB SSD
    PSU
    Thermal Take 1000watts
    Case
    Thermal Take Xtreme
    Cooling
    9 fans air cooled
    Keyboard
    G15 logitech
    Mouse
    G9 logitech
    Internet Speed
    50mbps
* LAN Manager authentication level was already set to LM & NTLM responses only
* I can't find the setting to turn off require 128-bit encryption but I am certain I already turned it off.
* The switches are not managed switches.
* The cell phones were definitely not mine (I gave up cell phones the day I retired - now people actually have to SPEAK to me) but they are gone now so: no worries.
* I re-set the router again. This time I saved the router configuration file and just re-loaded it after the re-set. I rebooted everything and now, again, I can see all devices on the Windows 8 machine. Unfortunately the NAS is still not accessible. The error message from the Windows Network diagnostics is: "Windows cannot communicate with the device or resource. It is available but is not responding to connection attempts. A firewall or network security policy on the remote computer might be blocking the connection on port "file and print sharing resource".
This "resource" is a QNAP 559 Pro II (See QNAP, Inc. - Network Attached Storage (NAS) - Products - Products - Archive - Storage - 5-Bay - TS-559 Pro II). As far as I know, it is running SAMBA. I never had to fiddle with it for the NAS to be visible in XP or W7. I sent a message to QNAP support - hopefully they will come up with a solution.
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    2 x W7-64, W81-64, W10-64, 2 x NAS (Samba), and a partridge in a pear tree
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    me / Lots of them
    CPU
    You really should make allowances for multiple systems
    Motherboard
    A different one for each computer
    Memory
    I forgot
    Graphics Card(s)
    Yup: got some of those
    Sound Card
    I hear noooothing (Sgt Schultz)
I'm about to give up for now: The bleeping devices have disappeared again. I refuse to reset the router every time I shut down the Windows 8 machine.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    2 x W7-64, W81-64, W10-64, 2 x NAS (Samba), and a partridge in a pear tree
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    me / Lots of them
    CPU
    You really should make allowances for multiple systems
    Motherboard
    A different one for each computer
    Memory
    I forgot
    Graphics Card(s)
    Yup: got some of those
    Sound Card
    I hear noooothing (Sgt Schultz)
One further development: I had sent an inquiry to Gigabyte, the manufacturer of my motherboard asking them about the "Download Center" utility that is packaged with my board and is supposed to give me the latest and greatest drivers. This utility did not work properly for me forcing me to hunt down and install drivers manually.
The answer I received was: "Download Center is currently not supported under Windows 8, please download all Windows 8 drivers manually off our website." I had already downloaded the drivers but that did not resolve my problems. I am currently running the machine via a hard-wired connection as everything seems to working fine that way. Connected wirelessly I can still not see all devices. Worse, even the ones I do see may or may not actually be accessible. I have officially declared the wireless connection "flakey" but I would still dearly love to figure out what is at fault here and how it can be fixed. So if anyone reading this has any ideas, I encourage you to leave a post with any trouble-shooting tips you may have.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    2 x W7-64, W81-64, W10-64, 2 x NAS (Samba), and a partridge in a pear tree
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    me / Lots of them
    CPU
    You really should make allowances for multiple systems
    Motherboard
    A different one for each computer
    Memory
    I forgot
    Graphics Card(s)
    Yup: got some of those
    Sound Card
    I hear noooothing (Sgt Schultz)
I think the issue has got nothing to do with either router or other devices, it's one of Widnows 8's "glitchs".

Try this solution:

1 Go to Control Panel - View Network Status and tasks, choosing the active wireless network you're using
2 Click "Change advanced sharing settings"
3 Expand the "Guest or Public" options
4 Set both items to "turn on..." option.
5 Save and restart your PC.

Let me know if it works.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 Home 64Bit
    Computer type
    Laptop
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