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Trying to Get Password Protected Sharing to Work Properly

  1. #1


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP

    Trying to Get Password Protected Sharing to Work Properly


    Networking gurus please read. The post is long, but I need to be thorough in stating my problem. While longish, my post should be easy to grasp.

    I am trying to get password protected sharing (PPS) to work properly (as I understand "properly") among the 3 machines identified below. I am ignoring several Macs that connect either via Ethernet or wirelessly because they work the way I want on my network--always requiring user names and passwords regardless of sharing direction and whether PPS is used or not.

    Here is info about the 3 machines I am concerned about:

    General: All machines have different user names and passwords.

    Specific:

    Machine 1 = Win7 1
    Connects via Ethernet
    PPS on
    HomeGroup on
    Connecting Specifics:
    Win7 1 connects to Win8 without user name/password.
    Win8 connects to Win7 1 without user name/password.
    Win7 1 connects to Win7 2 with no user name/password.
    Win7 2 connects to Win7 1 with user name/password.

    Machine 2 = Win7 2
    This machine is supposed to simulate that of a friend connected to my network to use internet via Ethernet.
    Connects via Ethernet
    PPS on
    No HomeGroup membership (HomeGroup off)
    Connecting Specifics Not Covered Above:
    Win7 2 connects to Win8 with user name/password.
    Win8 access is denied to Win7 2.

    Machine 3 = Win8
    Connects wirelessly
    PPS on
    HomeGroup on
    Connecting Specifics Not Covered above: None

    The most troubling of the situations above are:

    Win8 access is denied to Win7 2. This situation of concern because my "friend" might want to let me access his computer without using RDC.

    All of the situations where no user name and password are required are troubling too since PPS is on in all cases. These situation are:

    Win7 1 connects to Win7 2 without user name/password.
    Win7 1 connects to Win8 without user name/password.
    Win8 connects to Win7 1 without user name/password.

    Does anyone have insights concerning how to go about making PPS work properly. In this regard, it seems to me that properly would preclude all the troubling situations above. Is the problem that I have the wrong idea about how PPS should work?

    Edit: With PPS off on all Win machines, access is not denied for any Win machine, and usually user names and passwords are not required for Win machines.
    Last edited by znod; 09 Dec 2012 at 07:57. Reason: Had to fix an error in my post.

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  2. #2


    I think you may need to add those User accounts as a local account on your machine in order for password protected sharing to work with Homegroups. Or as least that is what I'm getting from these tutorials.

    If you don't add the local accounts then the User names won't show up on the shared list which prevents the password protected sharing from working. Or so the story goes.

    Password Protected File Sharing in Windows 7

    To create a local account on your machine go to step 7.
    User Account - Add a New User in Windows 8
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  3. #3


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Thanks much chev65. I'll look into it and post back with questions--which I probably will have. You probably saw my other post having to do with how the heck PPS is supposed to work. Don't blame you for not replying; it was long and not specific. The current problems I am experiencing came about because I decided to try PPS again on my network having never ever had any sort of significant success with it previously while employing absolutely "normal" installation procedures. Thanks again.

    PS Did PPS first appear on Vista? Can't remember.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #4


    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    Thanks much chev65. I'll look into it and post back with questions--which I probably will have. You probably saw my other post having to do with how the heck PPS is supposed to work. Don't blame you for not replying; it was long and not specific. The current problems I am experiencing came about because I decided to try PPS again on my network having never ever had any sort of success with it previously while employing absolutely "normal" installation procedures. Thanks again.
    Honestly I've been wondering about how PPS is supposed to work when Homegroups is set up. It seems to me for any type of control over who can see or do what on the network you need to add them as a local account so their User name will show up on the "share with" list.

    Apparently if you want to set up special shares for a specific user or LAN-PC, and if you want the password prompt to come up when shares are being accessed then the specific user account or local machine needs to be added as a local account on your machine. Or at least this is how it's written.

    And yes I'd be interested in seeing if this works or not. I'm tempted to try it here on my own Homegroup just to see if it can be done.
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  5. #5


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Quote Originally Posted by chev65 View Post
    Honestly I've been wondering about how PPS is supposed to work when Homegroups is set up. It seems to me for any type of control over who can see or do what on the network you need to add them as a local account so their User name will show up on the "share with" list.
    I hugely applaud your honesty. I feel sooooooo much better. I have been feeling so dumb about PPS for so long.

    Quote Originally Posted by chev65 View Post
    Apparently if you want to set up special shares for a specific user or LAN-PC, and if you want the password prompt to come up when shares are being accessed then the specific user account or local machine needs to be added as a local account on your machine. Or at least this is how it's written.

    And yes I'd be interested in seeing if this works or not. I'm tempted to try it here on my own Homegroup just to see if it can be done.
    I actually had thought that maybe your proposed solution would work. But, I've tended to shy away from fooling around too much with my shares since I am not particularly good on knowing what will happen when I change, this, that, or the other. I think that MS has failed to bestow sharing with any true intuitiveness. There are too many boxes, etc., ad infinitum, for ordinary mortals to proceed with confidence. I'll be back with questions if I think I am about to get into trouble moving forward with too much reckless abandon. Maybe you'll try it first. HeeHeeHee.

    Really, the problems I might have revolve around having a "friend" type user connected via Ethernet--which could, but is highly unlikely to, happen. My wireless password wouldn't be discovered for about 27 million years. And, for the most part, my intention simply is to see if I can make it work--rather than having a real need for it to work. You deserve a whether the solution works or not. Indeed, you deserve one for helping me feel not so dumb about PPS.
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  6. #6


    From what I've seen and also I've tried this and it works very well, simply adding a local account for which ever User or machine you want to give access too or restrict access to, will make that User name or machine name show up on the Share With list.

    This allows you to set up special shares for that particular user or machine name. It only takes a minute to set up a local account and it's easily accomplished.

    You can also set up User Groups that have certain permissions then you can just add Users to which ever group has the desired permissions and those Group permissions will apply. They try to make this as easy as possible but it's not very easy to understand as it's a fairly complex system.

    So for this same reason I'm assuming that for password protected sharing to work you need to do the same thing which is adding those special Users as a local account on your machine which should then allow password protected sharing to work when ever they try to access a file on your machine.

    And really, password protected sharing is only a secondary security measure which you can put in place in case you aren't sure which user is actually using that user account because you also have full control over what that User can access with just the security tab NTFS settings.

    I'm certain that Windows 8 is working as designed and I agree that it seems to be very complicated although I can't see any other way of setting up user shares with such a high degree of precision.
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  7. #7


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    I'll be looking back at all you've said. Will do some thinking before trying. I am sure you are right about MS and sharing. I've never really tired to scratch the surface because I had no need to do so.

    Thanks very much again.
    Last edited by znod; 09 Dec 2012 at 08:00. Reason: Modified because of an error in my original post
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  8. #8


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Quote Originally Posted by chev65 View Post
    And really, password protected sharing is only a secondary security measure which you can put in place in case you aren't sure which user is actually using that user account because you also have full control over what that User can access with just the security tab NTFS settings.
    Thanks for all your help. I abandoned the project. The payoff for getting it working just wasn't high enough.

    i turned HomeGroup on on all the machines and disabled PPS on them. Given those that appearing under sharing or permissions for the Win7 machines (i.e., administrator of computer, administrators in general, homeusers, and system), no one but a network cracker could get to anything on those machines by connecting an unrelated computer to the network. Do you agree? Also, everyone I want to be able to share (the administrators of all the computers) can access whatever they want across all machines. There are no standard user accounts on the machines. If there were, then I might have to take access a bit more seriously.

    Exceptionally, "Everyone" is allowed to access the Users folder on the Win8 machine apparently by default. Do you know why this is the case? Do you see any reason to allow "Everyone" to do anything on the Win8 machine? I think that allowing "Everyone" would enable an individual connecting an unrelated computer to the network to access the Users folder on the Win8. But, presumably he could get no farther given that administrator of computer, administrators in general, homeusers, and system comprise the remainder of the enabled groups. Right? Can you see a reason not to delete "Everyone?"

    Be back later this afternoon.
    Last edited by znod; 06 Dec 2012 at 15:01.
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  9. #9


    Yes that Everyone setting is default for the User folder, I think they do that just to show people how it's done because it was a question I've had to answer many times in the past.

    The Everyone share is easily removed and yes, you should remove "Everyone" from the list, otherwise anyone connected to your network would have access to the entire user folder. It's best to remove this Everyone entry by going to the root of C drive then to the User folder, right click, properties, security tab, edit button, highlight Everyone, hit the remove button.

    The best trick is to add a local account "WhichEverNamePC" from your LAN on your main PC, after that, this same PC name will appear on your "Share With" list and you can set up shares that pertain to only that user. You can add or remove permissions for each individual user or machine on your LAN this way.

    With the password protected sharing, I believe that once the PC as been accessed once with the User name and password, it then remembers the credentials which I believe is why it doesn't pop up again.

    If a user already has access permissions with the appropriate security settings it over rides password protection.

    For larger networks you can set up group permissions then add users to those groups.
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  10. #10


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Thanks Chev65. I am stating to itch again to try the project. Maybe I'm going start on it again. But, I notice that as time marches on I get more and more hesitant to spend time on things providing only potentially small payoffs. But, still there is a difference in thinking you know how to do something and actually doing it to test your presumed knowledge.
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