Installing W8.1 - Legacy vs. UEFI - Dell XPS15 - Problem!

Juice370

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I'm new to Legacy and UEFI terminology, so please go easy...

Dell XPS15 with Samsung 840 250GB SSD (replaced original mechanical drive) + 32GB mSATA drive (still present). It was set up to boot from UEFI when the Dell technician installed the OS on the new Samsung drive. Am I correct in saying the mSATA drive is not being used at present as the new Samsung SSD replaced the original mechanical drive?

Problem: Today I've wiped the 250GB SSD and installed W8.1. Problem is I installed it in Legacy mode as I couldn't get the W8.1 DVD to boot in UEFI mode. I think this was a mistake. I thought I could switch it back later from legacy to UEFI. The laptop will not boot now in UEFI.

Is there any way to switch back to UEFI for faster booting? I have a macrium reflect image of the new install, or would this just use Legacy again?

Is a complete reinstall needed, this time in UEFI mode and via USB?

Thanks
Ian
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W8
    Computer type
    Laptop
You need to install as UEFI. The DVD will boot as UEFI, just select it with that designation in the Boot Device Menu then make sure and hit a key if it is necessary. If you get a message about the SSD being the wrong configuration, you may have to remove all the partitions on the drive in the partition selection window so it can be configured as GPT.

You may want to set the system back to a Secure Boot configuration so it won't even show the legacy boot devices.

The 32 GB drive was the acceleration drive for the HDD and you do not need it when using an SSD. It did not have software installed, but was being used as a cache for the HDD.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Grown
    CPU
    i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77 -v Pro, Z87-Expert
    Memory
    16 G
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GTX 680 Classified (2)
    Hard Drives
    Kingston SSD 240 GB
So basically wipe the drive and start again? No way of saving a days work with the ISO and all the software I'd reinstalled?

Cheers
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W8
    Computer type
    Laptop
You could try copying the OS partition somewhere and then copying it back after you do the new install. Not sure if that would work or if it did, whether your system would be stable.

Maybe someone else will have more information.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Grown
    CPU
    i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77 -v Pro, Z87-Expert
    Memory
    16 G
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GTX 680 Classified (2)
    Hard Drives
    Kingston SSD 240 GB
So basically wipe the drive and start again? No way of saving a days work with the ISO and all the software I'd reinstalled?

Cheers

Yes, in order to have a UEFI Boot your system has to be UEFI and disk GPT. You will have to reinstall and during the install Hit the F10 Key this will bring up a Command Prompt you will use Disk Part to Clean your SSD.
Put your DVD in and Start up. You'll have to find out what Key Dell uses to bring up a boot menu. Asus is Esc I don't know what Dell uses.
At the boot menu select UEFI DVD/CD drive
once the windows files finish loading and the install window opens hit the F10 and bring up the Command Prompt
list disk
Select your Disk
Clean
Convert to GPT
exit
and continue installing windows 8 as normal. You will have a UEFI Booting install of window 8
On first boot if you have more than one drive, you may have to hit that KEY that brings up the Boot Menu, select your SSD that should be the last time you'll need to do that if you do.

Here's a better Guide I think I missed a couple of steps!!
Booting and partitioning of GPT for Windows 8:
1.Boot from the Windows 8 install media (You must initiate this boot from a device labeled as a UEFI device, or the installation of Windows 8 will produce an error that the OS cannot be installed to a GPT partition) These UEFI boot devices will have a prefix UEFI: "name of your device", and show as a boot option in your UEFI.
2.After booting to the UEFI device you see the Install Windows 8 screen, press Shift + F10 to open a command prompt.
3.Type Diskpart, press Enter
4.Type List Disk , press Enter
5.Type Select Disk # (where # is the number your drive shows up as), press Enter
6.Type Clean, press Enter
7.Type Convert GPT, press Enter
8.Type Exit, press Enter.
9.Close the Command Prompt window.
10.Click the "Next" button.
11.Click the "Install now" button.
12.Put in your product key and click the "Next" button.
13.Accept the terms and click the "Next" button.
14.Choose "Custom: Install Windows only (advanced)."
15.Select the partition and click "Drive options (advanced)"
16.Click "New" and then click the "Apply" button. Four partitions should appear. Click the bottom partition.
17.Click the "OK" button and then click the "Next" button.
18.From then on follow the on screen instructions till you get to the desktop.
Note: If you can't boot after the install you need to make sure the boot is set to "Windows Boot Manager" in the UEFI. Also, important info.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro MC
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus G75VW / Z97 Pro
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-3610QM / I7-4790K
    Motherboard
    Z97 Pro
    Memory
    16 GB Hyundai HTM315156CFR8C-PB PC3-12800
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVIDIA GeForce GTX 670M (GF114M)
    Sound Card
    VIA 6.0.10.1600
    Screen Resolution
    1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 850 Pro 256, Samsung 850 Pro 1TB
    Internet Speed
    30 down 3 up
    Browser
    Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    NIS and Malwarebytes
I've followed your instruction to the letter. However the Samsung 250GB SSD (main drive) isn't showing up under UEFI boot options, it's only under Legacy. This drive is GPT in diskpart. Windows installed to this drive but now on boot it's showing both a W8 (the new install from DVD) and W8.1 (which was the previous install pre "clean").

Any thoughts please?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W8
    Computer type
    Laptop
I've now completely wiped the 250GB SSD with parted magic, set the Boot Mode to UEFI with Legacy OPROM; Secure Boot Off as this is the only option left to try. Now when it boots there are 4 windows options. Where are these things installing, on the mSATA cache drive? I now have 4 OS installed somewhere. The main SSD is GPT but its not EFI in Computer > Manage.

I'm lost. Should I boot from USB instead?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W8
    Computer type
    Laptop
This may not work for you at this point, but Macrium has a repair bootup feature. If you get the SSD installed with Windows again and you can't boot to Windows then that might help. It worked for me before.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win 8.1 Pro x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Built in the basement with the usual thunder, lightning and scary organ music
    CPU
    Intel i5 4690 Quad Core 3.5Ghz
    Motherboard
    MSI Z97-G55 SLI, AMI BIOS v1.9
    Memory
    Corsair DDR3 - 8GB (2x4GB) 1600Mhz
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer 24"
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    SSD: Samsung 840 EVO 250GB,
    HDD: WD 1TB
    PSU
    Corsair HX750
    Case
    Cooler Master HAF 912
    Cooling
    Air
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless
    Mouse
    Logitech Wireless
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
I just don't understand why on boot its now showing 4 x Windows OS, which aren't even there really. The main SSD has just 20GB taken with Windows install and only the 1 partition.

Is there a way to clear the boot loader or whatever its called? I hate Dell more and more each time i mess with this thing. I'm a send them a bill for 2 days labour!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W8
    Computer type
    Laptop
OK EasyBCD did the trick. Now to find out why UEFI is not working.

If your SSD is GPT then UEFI has to be working as BIOS/MBR can not work with GPT.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro MC
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus G75VW / Z97 Pro
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-3610QM / I7-4790K
    Motherboard
    Z97 Pro
    Memory
    16 GB Hyundai HTM315156CFR8C-PB PC3-12800
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVIDIA GeForce GTX 670M (GF114M)
    Sound Card
    VIA 6.0.10.1600
    Screen Resolution
    1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 850 Pro 256, Samsung 850 Pro 1TB
    Internet Speed
    30 down 3 up
    Browser
    Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    NIS and Malwarebytes
If you could get a picture, either from Parted Magic, or Disk Management if you can get into Windows, it might help. Make sure we can see all the partitions so we can get an idea of the configuration.

It almost sounds like another drive is involved, maybe the 32 GB one..
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Grown
    CPU
    i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77 -v Pro, Z87-Expert
    Memory
    16 G
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GTX 680 Classified (2)
    Hard Drives
    Kingston SSD 240 GB
I have a feeling this is a 'Dell thing' and I also wonder if the 32GB cache drive is somehow getting involved. But, it may even be working as it should now as it boots without issue in all 3 Boot modes below (before it didn't boot to any UEFI modes), however the boot times are the same for each mode, about 18-20 seconds.

Also it's not showing as UEFI or alternatively EFI (as the cache drive suggests) in Computer Management, image below. Looks like I followed everything to the letter and the C drive SSD is definitely GPT in Diskpart.

As the image below, this main C Drive SSD (Samsung 840) is not showing under the UEFI Boot (F12), but the original 32GB cache drive (not being used), does. And I have no idea why the Ubuntu option is still showing as Dell supposedly deleted that 12 months ago when they set this new Samsung SSD up for me over remote desktop support. Any ideas how to remove that one?

Boot Modes:

UEFI with Legacy OPROM; Secure Boot: Off
UEFI Secure Boot Off (this one is currently selected)
UEFI Secure Boot On

Disk Management:

Management.png

F2 UEFI Boot: (not showing the Samsung SSD = C Drive)

F2.jpg



F12 Boot Modes:

And this is how Dell left it 12 months ago, post removal of SATA drive and install of new Samsung 840 SSD: (I took this photo pre-format/install yesterday). They left the 32GB cache drive in situ.

Dell_oe.jpg


What is the Ubuntu option? Basically when I bought the Samsung 840 SSD 12 months ago to replace the original SATA, I tried to set up a dual boot, it didn't work and that's why I phoned Dell. So we agreed to replace the original SATA with the new Samsung, leave the 32GB cache in place (for when I sold the laptop to replace the SATA), and just wipe Ubuntu and start again with a clean W8 install on the new Samsung 840 SSD. This is supposedly what Dell did.


Do you have enough to go on to confirm if UEFI is now working and if the 32GB cache drive is somehow interfering, maybe even that Ubuntu option, and how to get rid?

Thanks
 

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My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W8
    Computer type
    Laptop
Yes, you are running in EFI mode. However, with mSSD connected, Windows installation put the EFI System Partition on it and the Recovery Partition right after the C: Drive. In addition, there is a hidden 128MB unallocated partition which Disk Management does not show. To find out where it is, you need to run diskpart then type: List Disk, select disk # where # is disk number, list partition
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    8.1x64PWMC Ubuntu14.04x64 MintMate17x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Brewed
    CPU
    I7 4970K OC'ed @4.7 GHz
    Motherboard
    MSI-Z97
    Memory
    16 GB G-Skill Trident X @2400MHZ
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce GTS 450
    Sound Card
    X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional Series
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dual HP-W2408
    Screen Resolution
    1920X1200
    Hard Drives
    256 GB M2 sm951, (2) 500GB 850EVO, 5TB, 2 TB Seagate
    PSU
    Antec 850W
    Case
    Antec 1200
    Cooling
    Danger Den H20
    Keyboard
    Logitech
    Mouse
    Logitech Performance Mouse MX
    Internet Speed
    35/12mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
Initially I thought the EFI on the mSSD was just there from the original setup. Is any of this a problem, or is it running optimally now even though it's on the cache drive? Also should I switch it to 'Secure' or is this not required?

And can I do anything to get rid of the old Ubuntu install on the mSSD?

Diskpart says that the 128MB is on the main C Drive. Problem or OK?

diskpart.jpg

Thanks a lot
Ian
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W8
    Computer type
    Laptop
The picture is of a Dell XPS system, with the 32 GB mSATA drive. You don't see the mSATA because it is set up as RAID in order to take advantage of the Intel Smart Response Technology. You control that technology from the Intel panel in the hidden icons on the taskbar.

It looks like Dell, reset your system in a strange way, and doing it remotely is probably pretty hard. So I suppose it is up to you how to proceed. I would reinstall, but the system will run the way it is. You can clear the Boot loader by using bcdedit.exe.
 

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My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Grown
    CPU
    i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77 -v Pro, Z87-Expert
    Memory
    16 G
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GTX 680 Classified (2)
    Hard Drives
    Kingston SSD 240 GB
Basically a shambles since Dell set it up, and the bootloader according to bcdedit is on C drive. So I'm putting the old SATA drive back in today and its going on eBay. Had enough of Dell and faffing about.

Thanks for your detailed help guys. Appreciate it.

I may be back...
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W8
    Computer type
    Laptop
Just putting the old hard drive back in may cause some problems. So first, when you boot with it in, make sure the system is booting to that drive and not the mSATA. You probably need to go into the bios and set the Windows Boot Manager on the HDD as the first boot priority.

You may have error messages concerning the mSATA. The system probably still shows the mSATA as in a RAID configuration with the hard drive. During boot, you may have the opportunity to break that link in a RAID OPRom or use the Intel Rapid Response Utility in the hidden icons on the taskbar to disable acceleration on that system. A best practice might have been to unwind that configuration before you removed the HDD originally.

Bcdedit will show a system looking at the EFI partition for the Boot Manager, then the winload.efi on the C: partition..this is normal.

Anyway, good luck.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Grown
    CPU
    i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    ASUS P8Z77 -v Pro, Z87-Expert
    Memory
    16 G
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GTX 680 Classified (2)
    Hard Drives
    Kingston SSD 240 GB
Yeah thanks, I've had a read online about the SATA setting needs to be changed from ACHI back to IRST. Dell definitely worked with the IRST and disabled it for me, only the Rapid Storage was left on my machine and the Rapid Start one was removed I believe, not compatible. I'm ready to make the switch later.

One thing that is really annoying is this Ubuntu bootloader, it created all the hassle in the first place and may cock up the cache reactivation. I can see it in EasyBCD as the main bootloader (1 of 3) and I can delete it, but on each restart, it reappears. However it's not visible via bcdedit. I just hope that when setting up Intel Rapid Start again, it will format this cache drive where it resides and remove the thing. But bcdedit and easybcd both tell me that the Windows bootloader is on C, which is what we wanted.

Is it possible to wipe the cache drive pre IRST install/activation or not?

Thanks as always
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W8
    Computer type
    Laptop
You're probably right about it still being in RAID, hence the nonsense experienced. I went to Dell as I had no clue at the time, and it was 12 months ago so not sure exactly what they did, but I do recall them disabling the IRST as above. But having said that everything points to it still acting in RAID. RAID is off in the Bios as we ll though. Think we'll blame it on Dell or that Ubuntu install which I did.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W8
    Computer type
    Laptop
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