Solved Changes to an OEM PC...

I have a new HP desktop with OEM installed W8.1, with secure boot enabled, that's getting on my nerves. For some reason it is slow to start; the measured restart time is almost two minutes, 113 seconds. That would be ok, but it does the same when the screensaver deactivated. The screensaver is replaced by the spinning circle and "Please wait..." text for almost two minutes. Yes, most of the OEM crap had been removed, but it still does the same. Prior to nuking this system couple of questions.

The disk layout is GPT:



Full disk image was created using Macrium's latest version of Reflect.

Can this image be actually restored on the same, or different same size drive? It would be nice to know, before it's nuked.

Since the "C" drive has the boot partition, could it be imaged and restored on a different drive without the other partitions?

My preferred way is clean install of W8.1, based on using the OEM product key method. The media and product keys are on hand. The secure boot can be disabled in the BIOS, but there's no option for changing the disk layout.

Should the secure boot be disabled, does it provide any useful function? Other than the additional overhead at boot time, I don't see much use for this feature.

If the current disk wiped by W8.1 installation, what will be the partition type? Will it remain GPT, or Windows change it to MBR partition schema? In my view, GPT is overkill for desktops, but it really doesn't matter for most end users.
TIA...

Don't let yourself believe the UEFI bios and configuration or Secure Boot is the cause of the slow startup times.

You need to find the culprit using Task Manager to look for something taking the time. You might be able to disable certain items during start and allow the system to boot normally. Any number of things can cause delays at boot, such a driver needing special attention, a storage device needing to be set up, some type of network traffic, or several other things.

Has it always done this or just started?

This PC, about a month old 3.2GHz CPU and 8GB memory, has been doing this from the beginning. The actual performance is pretty good, once the user is logged in to the desktop. That's not the issue. The painful slowness shows up at boot, at the time the screensaver deactivated, the user logs off, or trying to switch user. Almost two minutes wait time for each of these is painful...


There are couple of errors in the logs, volmgr EID 46 and DCOM EID 10010, but other than that the event viewer is clean. These errors only show up at start up time, not at the times when users switches, or the screensaver deactivated.

Instead of trying to find why this system start up is so slow, I'd rather spend the time on a clean install. I'd careless, if the partition table stays GPT, or the secure boot is active. I don't think they are necessary for a desktop, but whatever...

The media and product keys are on hand.

Click to expand...

I'd rather spend the time on a clean install.

Click to expand...

Make a system image for recovery and/or create/save/use your factory recovery media (if needed) and follow this procedure:

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/2299-clean-install-windows-8-a.html

Ok, you can of course do whatever you want. You can try turning Secure Boot off by enabling the CSM in the Bios. In may situations, the Secure Boot option is used to determine whether UEFI or Legacy boot devices are allowed. In order to boot to a Windows 7 install DVD, you have to turn off secure boot, but you can still install as UEFI.

The EFI partition is essential for a UEFI install since the boot files are there along with the firmware.

The errors in the Event Viewer are informative. The DCOM one I see all the time and does center just around starts and the system making some network connection.

The Volume Manager error is something you might need to explore. Can you copy and include the entire message in your next post? I did find the link below, but not sure how it might relate to your situation.

Event ID 46 logged when you start a computer

my2cents said:

The media and product keys are on hand.

Click to expand...

I'd rather spend the time on a clean install.

Click to expand...

Make a system image for recovery and/or create/save/use your factory recovery media (if needed) and follow this procedure:

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/2299-clean-install-windows-8-a.html

Click to expand...

The drive had been imaged with Macrium, just don't know, if the image can be restored or not.

I am ok with the installation process, even with this one:

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorial...e-firmware-interface-install-windows-8-a.html

The thing is that the current partitions will be removed from the drive. Since there will be no changes to the HP BIOS, EUFI and secure boot enabled, will Windows reformat the drive based on GPT partition schema?

Saltgrass said:

The Volume Manager error is something you might need to explore. Can you copy and include the entire message in your next post? I did find the link below, but not sure how it might relate to your situation.

Event ID 46 logged when you start a computer

Click to expand...

Actually, EID 46 is related to disabling the page file that I do routinely with 8GB memory; the error message is:

Crash dump initialization failed!

Click to expand...

Re-enabling the page file got rid of that error, but didn't change the two minute delays. Based on the event log's time stamp, Windows is actually starting up pretty fast, 16 seconds, with no errors:



While there were applications added, 4-5 of them, the system behaved the same way out of the box without application. Hence the reason suspecting that one or more odd ball HP programs and/or OEM junk wants to start prior to getting to the logon screen and keeps trying until it times out. Yes, process explorer and/or Wireshark could be used to verify if that's the case, but it would take time. Come to think of it, reinstalling everything may take the same time...

Windows is actually starting up pretty fast, 16 seconds, with no errors:

Click to expand...

Windows generates a log on each cold boot and shutdown with associated times to complete same.

Mine shows 22 seconds. My visual boot time to desktop is 7-10 seconds.



So, what is your new objective? I thought you were ready to do a clean install?

My objective is get rid of the close to two minutes delay, at start up, disabling screensaver, and when logoff/switch user selected. I just didn't want to touch the OEM partitions without knowing, if it can be restored from the backup image. As such, I am going to get a one TB drive and mess with that one, instead of the one the desktop came with.

BTW... I did use Wireshark, but there wasn't any connectivity attempt to the internet or anywhere during the two minutes pause. Just the standard broadcast traffic...

I just didn't want to touch the OEM partitions without knowing, if it can be restored from the backup image.

Click to expand...

Yes it can (if you include all partitions in you backup image). I use Macrium to restore a System Image to my test rig on a routine basis and I have done that successfully a few hundred times.

Good luck to you.

There is also a Startup Tab on Task Manager. It may not be seeing what is causing the delay, but you might check it. It does list certain startup items and how much impact they have.

If what you are seeing is after the boot, it might be something else.

Make sure you let it boot a couple of times after you re-establish the page file. The link states it has to reconfigure before it can boot normally.

If you had moved your user profiles, I might think that could be involved.

Is the delay the same for a cold boot and restart boot?

Eaiest would be to get a 240GB SSD for $130 and move all partitions over. I am sure the data will fit. That will give you 20 sec +/- boot times and a system that is a lot snappier.

If you get an SSD, don't forget the Sata cable. That costs pennies. You probably have an extra power wire in the box.

my2cents said:

Yes it can (if you include all partitions in you backup image). I use Macrium to restore a System Image to my test rig on a routine basis and I have done that successfully a few hundred times.

Good luck to you.

Click to expand...

I did use Macrium on a number occasions with W7 and MBR partition, just not with GPT partition with W8. Reflect worked flawlessly all the times...

Saltgrass said:

There is also a Startup Tab on Task Manager. It may not be seeing what is causing the delay, but you might check it. It does list certain startup items and how much impact they have.

If what you are seeing is after the boot, it might be something else.

Make sure you let it boot a couple of times after you re-establish the page file. The link states it has to reconfigure before it can boot normally.

If you had moved your user profiles, I might think that could be involved.

Is the delay the same for a cold boot and restart boot?

Click to expand...

The startup had been trimmed to basic necessities, but it made no difference:



There was no profiles moved to this system, UIDs created for the end users. The delay is the same with cold/warm boot, that I could live with. The actual issue is that the same delay shows up when the screensaver is deactivated, logging out, or switching users. And that's not acceptable, especially when the screensaver locks the desktop as it should.

Actually, I've just tested manually locking the desktop. It does have the same delay, before it can be unlocked. Weird isn't the right word for this kind of behavior...

whs said:

Eaiest would be to get a 240GB SSD for $130 and move all partitions over. I am sure the data will fit. That will give you 20 sec +/- boot times and a system that is a lot snappier.

If you get an SSD, don't forget the Sata cable. That costs pennies. You probably have an extra power wire in the box.

Click to expand...

And I'd do that in heartbeat, if I know that it would resolve the issue. Unfortunately, it isn't only the boot time that is the issue. Simply unlocking the desktop after the screensaver kicked in has the same delay.

But you did give me an idea. Just get the referenced SDD, instead of the planned one TB HDD, clean install W8.1 and programs on the SSD, and use the current one TB HDD for storage. It's going to be a mess with license activations, but it is an option, if the current system cannot be fixed.

There is no activation problem if you transfer the OS from the spinner to the SSD. Here is how. The easiest is to use the Paragon Migration Tool for $19.95. That does the job in 3 clicks including the alignment and everything.

Cr00zng said:

There was no profiles moved to this system, UIDs created for the end users. The delay is the same with cold/warm boot, that I could live with. The actual issue is that the same delay shows up when the screensaver is deactivated, logging out, or switching users. And that's not acceptable, especially when the screensaver locks the desktop as it should.

Actually, I've just tested manually locking the desktop. It does have the same delay, before it can be unlocked. Weird isn't the right word for this kind of behavior...

Click to expand...

I have been trying to think of something that might be common for each of the situations you describe as having a delay. But I keep coming back to something related to the user accounts.

I have no idea why a screen saver deactivation would cause a long delay. Do you have it set to ask for a password on resume? Does the system have any special log on possibilities, like a thumb scanner or smart card reader?

If you want to look at the situation in more detail, you can get a utility called Process Monitor from System Internals. It will keep a log of what the system is doing, and a two minute period should be easy to spot. This is a Microsoft branch so I trust the software. I have run it for some time, so if you needed help, it would be available. Just Download the utility, right click and look at the properties of the downloaded file and select unblock. After you unzip you can start the program as Admin and let it run while you disable the screen saver and after the delay, stop it from logging and check the log.

They also have a program called Autoruns which watches the boot and will allow you to disable specific startup items, if that were necessary.

I realize that you said this is a new computer, however, have you ran a HDD test? I work on PC's daily and the number of HDD failures is really high. It seams as if more new PC's have bad HDD than old. Most of the HDD faulures i see are Linear Read fails. You should be able to use a HDD test from the HDD manufacture or you could use Seatools which will test any HDD. I would definately start there before reloading the OS.

whs said:

There is no activation problem if you transfer the OS from the spinner to the SSD. Here is how. The easiest is to use the Paragon Migration Tool for $19.95. That does the job in 3 clicks including the alignment and everything.

Click to expand...

I had transferred W7 from HDD to SSD previously and there was no need to make adjustment to the alignment. After the transfer was completed, the AS SSD Benchmark showed "1024 K - OK". Maybe Windows 7, 8, etc., by default utilizes the SSD alignment for partitioning the drive regardless of the type, and/or Windows realigns the boot record when SSD is detected. My guess would be that MS uses a single partition routine at the time of installation and the partition is aligned for SSD. At least that seems logical...

In this case, the chances are that transferring the current OS to SSD would not fix the issue. The problem isn't just at boot time, warm or cold; the issue is there when the desktop is locked manually and/or by the screensaver. It takes about two minutes for the locked screen to come up, after the "Windows Key + L" locks it. Even if this SSD used:

Mushkin Enhanced Chronos MKNSSDCR240GB-7 2.5" 240GB SATA III 7mm Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - Newegg.com

Interesting name for this SSD, Chronos, the Greek god of time...

Saltgrass said:

I have been trying to think of something that might be common for each of the situations you describe as having a delay. But I keep coming back to something related to the user accounts.

I have no idea why a screen saver deactivation would cause a long delay. Do you have it set to ask for a password on resume? Does the system have any special log on possibilities, like a thumb scanner or smart card reader?

If you want to look at the situation in more detail, you can get a utility called Process Monitor from System Internals. It will keep a log of what the system is doing, and a two minute period should be easy to spot. This is a Microsoft branch so I trust the software. I have run it for some time, so if you needed help, it would be available. Just Download the utility, right click and look at the properties of the downloaded file and select unblock. After you unzip you can start the program as Admin and let it run while you disable the screen saver and after the delay, stop it from logging and check the log.

They also have a program called Autoruns which watches the boot and will allow you to disable specific startup items, if that were necessary.

Click to expand...

You were on the right track, actually, you nailed it. A big thanks Saltgrass!!!

After uninstalling HP Smart Path, there's no more delays. This program did not show up as service, in the start up folders, etc.: however, it evidently modified Windows log on process by inserting its routine for authenticating the user. The program was left in the system, in case the end user gets a keyboard with fingerprint reader.

Live and learn... evidently from Saltgrass and I don't mind.

Thanks again Saltgrass!!!