Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums

Downgrade question

  1. #11


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Are you saying he needs to have qualifying software or needs to have it (or Win7) installed when installing (or reinstalling) Win7? I am assuming the he had qualifying software when he got his Win7 upgrade.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #12


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    Don't understand. Upgrade install Win7. None of these methods will work? Is his embedded product key the problem? If not, then what?
    Windows 8 core Pre-install, has no downgrade rights.
    Been searching. Can't figure out what you mean by "Windows 8 core Pre-install, has no downgrade rights." By implication, Win8 Pro would have downgrade rights, right? What are and where do downgrade rights come from?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #13


    Posts : 5,592
    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    Are you saying he needs to have qualifying software or needs to have it (or Win7) installed when installing (or reinstalling) Win7? I am assuming the he had qualifying software when he got his Win7 upgrade.

    If OEM manufacturer's Windows XP/Vista, the OEM would not be qualifying software for a new PC, as the licence is for original hardware only.

    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    Don't understand. Upgrade install Win7. None of these methods will work? Is his embedded product key the problem? If not, then what?
    Windows 8 core Pre-install, has no downgrade rights.
    Been searching. Can't figure out what you mean by "Windows 8 core Pre-install, has no downgrade rights." By implication, Win8 Pro would have downgrade rights, right? What are and where do downgrade rights come from?
    Windows 8 Pro downgrade rights
    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...43287494,d.d2k
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #14


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    Are you saying he needs to have qualifying software or needs to have it (or Win7) installed when installing (or reinstalling) Win7? I am assuming the he had qualifying software when he got his Win7 upgrade.

    If OEM manufacturer's Windows XP/Vista, the OEM would not be qualifying software for a new PC, as the licence is for original hardware only.

    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post

    Windows 8 core Pre-install, has no downgrade rights.
    Been searching. Can't figure out what you mean by "Windows 8 core Pre-install, has no downgrade rights." By implication, Win8 Pro would have downgrade rights, right? What are and where do downgrade rights come from?
    Windows 8 Pro downgrade rights
    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...43287494,d.d2k
    Very interesting. I thank you greatly for your help.

    I see what you mean about Windows 8 core Pre-install having no downgrade rights. And, yes, Win8 Pro does. I reread the OEM EULA again (well actually scanned through it twice) and found no mention of downgrade rights. How is the consumer alerted to his/her downgrade rights?

    Just bumped into this: No downgrade rights in Preinstalled OEM Windows 8 (Core)?

    Trying to put pieces together. The tutorial, Downgrade Windows 8 to Windows 7, does not refer to downgrade rights. Win 8 core sometimes is preinstalled by OEM's under UEFI, right? If yes, then shouldn't the tutorial's focus be limited to Win8 Pro preinstalled?

    On this, "if OEM manufacturer's Windows XP/Vista, the OEM would not be qualifying software for a new PC, as the licence is for original hardware only." Having trouble interpreting. Are you saying that the OP's Win7 upgrade may have been for an upgrade of OEM preinstalled XP/Vista and, thus, not legal for installation on his Win 8 core machine (even if the needed downgrade rights existed)?

    Edit: Not saying this article is completely accurate, but it is at least pretty good, interesting.
    Last edited by znod; 15 Mar 2013 at 12:35.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #15


    Posts : 5,592
    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by znod
    Trying to put pieces together. The tutorial, Downgrade Windows 8 to Windows 7, does not refer to downgrade rights. Win 8 core sometimes is preinstalled by OEM's under UEFI, right? If yes, then shouldn't the tutorial's focus be limited to Windows 8 Pro preinstalled?

    NO, as we are a consumer based Forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by znod
    On this, "if OEM manufacturer's Windows XP/Vista, the OEM would not be qualifying software for a new PC, as the licence is for original hardware only." Having trouble interpreting. Are you saying that the OP's Win7 upgrade may have been for an upgrade of OEM preinstalled XP/Vista and, thus, not legal for installation on his Win 8 core machine
    YES.

    Quote Originally Posted by znod
    (even if the needed downgrade rights existed)?
    If the OP PC had downgrade rights

    The specs would be

    Quote Originally Posted by OEM
    OS Provided Windows 8 Pro 64-bit Edition Microsoft Office Preloaded Includes a pre-loaded image of select Microsoft Office 2010 suites. Purchase an Office 2010 Product Key Card or disc to activate preloaded software on this PC. Software Drivers & Utilities, Nero Essentials S, Microsoft Office 2010 Starter, Norton Internet Security (60 days trial), Fujitsu Recovery, Windows 7 / Windows 8 Pro Twin-Pack recovery DVD


    Quote Originally Posted by OEM
    Compatible operating systems

    Microsoft Windows 8, Windows 7 Professional 64-bit, Windows 7 Professional 32-bit, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit, Windows 7 Home Basic (EM) 32-bit,\r\nWindows Vista, Windows XP, \r\nopenSUSE Linux
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  6. #16


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by znod
    Trying to put pieces together. The tutorial, Downgrade Windows 8 to Windows 7, does not refer to downgrade rights. Win 8 core sometimes is preinstalled by OEM's under UEFI, right? If yes, then shouldn't the tutorial's focus be limited to Windows 8 Pro preinstalled?

    NO, as we are a consumer based Forum.
    Thank you much for all of that. You have helped me greatly again.

    On the above point, I may not have explained my thinking adequately, or I just may be confused. My thinking is that the tutorial should not cover core because core has no downgrade rights. Yet, it appears to apply to both Pro and core since there is no mention that it does not apply to core (i.e., because of the downgrade-rights issue). But, then, I am just confused if Win 8 core never is preinstalled by OEM's under UEFI on consumer machines (but my understanding is that it is).

    Also, in your last post, you said:

    "If the OP PC had downgrade rights

    The specs would be ..."

    Would the specs have been given in the EULA? Is that where a purchaser would have learned about his/her downgrade rights?

    If so, then there would be at least two OEM EULA's applying to ordinary consumers, right?

    I sort of apologize for being so persistent. I have trouble letting go of thing pursued until I think I have adequate understanding. I always greatly appreciate your support. You have helped me minimize posting errors greatly over my tenure to date here.
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  7. #17


    Posts : 5,592
    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by znod
    On the above point, I may not have explained my thinking adequately, or I just may be confused. My thinking is that the tutorial should not cover core because core has no downgrade rights. Yet, it appears to apply to both Pro and core since there is no mention that it does not apply to core (i.e., because of the downgrade-rights issue). But, then, I am just confused if Win 8 core never is preinstalled by OEM's under UEFI on consumer machines (but my understanding is that it is).
    For Windows 8 core, you would buy a Windows 7.
    For Windows 8 Pro, Free from the OEM.

    Quote Originally Posted by znod
    Also, in your last post, you said:

    "If the OP PC had downgrade rights

    The specs would be ..."

    Would the specs have been given in the EULA? Is that where a purchaser would have learned about his/her downgrade rights?

    Why would the OEM's specs be in the EULA?

    Quote Originally Posted by znod
    If so, then there would be at least two OEM EULA's applying to ordinary consumers, right?
    If the OEM specs were in the EULA, there would not be at least two, there would 100's.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #18


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post

    For Windows 8 core, you would buy a Windows 7.
    For Windows 8 Pro, Free from the OEM.
    Thanks much as always.

    OK, I think I see my problem. Download rights are free on OEM preinstalleds in regard to Win 8 Pro (and are exercised with MS blessings). Does the Win7 software pertinent to the download rights come with the OEM preinstalled Win 8 Pro machine? Apparently, the answer, at least in some cases, is "Windows 7 / Windows 8 Pro Twin-Pack recovery DVD" is part of OEM machine specs, and, so, here, the OEM supplies the software in such cases.

    And, there is no MS EULA restriction on an individual attempting to downgrade from Win8 core preinstalled to, say, Windows 7 Anything if one is willing to pay the price (or, perhaps, already has paid the price) and to take the risk.

    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Why would the OEM's specs be in the EULA? ... If the OEM specs were in the EULA, there would not be at least two, there would 100's.
    Bad question asking on my part. I was just trying to be sure where the downgrade rights would be stated. Let me try to clarify what my problem here is.

    I thought that downgrade rights were at least a partial function of MS--not only "the" OEM. If true, then it would seem to me that MS would be obliged to spell out, at least to some extent, the general download rights existing in relation to OEM preinstalls in the OEM EULA. If not true, then the OEM EULA would be OK on ignoring this matter.
    Last edited by znod; 17 Mar 2013 at 10:03.
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  9. #19


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Above I said:

    "OK, I think I see my problem. Download rights are free on OEM preinstalleds in regard to Win 8 Pro (and are exercised with MS blessings). Does the Win7 software pertinent to the download rights come with the OEM preinstalled Win 8 Pro machine?"

    As theog said earlier, "Windows 7 / Windows 8 Pro Twin-Pack recovery DVD" would be part of OEM machine specs, in at least some cases, and, so, the OEM would be the source in at least some cases
    . On this link, I find the pertinent information given below (which sounds consistent with theog's general view). Note that this information suggests that the "if true" alternative I mention above is the case. In this regard, I said:

    "I thought that downgrade rights were at least a partial function of MS--not only "the" OEM. If true, then it would seem to me that MS would be obliged to spell out, at least to some extent, the general download rights existing in relation to OEM preinstalls in the OEM EULA. If not true, then the OEM EULA would be OK on ignoring this matter."

    So, "if true" appears to be the case, and I am having trouble seeing how MS apparently reasons that the OEM EULA need not mention downgrade rights to any extent.




    Understanding downgrade rights





    The release of Windows 8 presents a great opportunity for you to consult with your customers and grow your business. With the higher levels of reliability, security, performance, administration, and support offered by Windows 8, you can make a strong business case for the Windows 8 operating system.

    Downgrade rights for Windows software

    Downgrade rights overview

    Downgrade rights are an end-user right, documented in the Software License Terms that customers accept upon first running Windows software. Thanks to downgrade rights, end users who have acquired a more recent version of the software (such as Windows 8 Pro) can use a prior version of the software (such as Windows 7 Professional) until they are ready to move to the more recent version. Not all products include downgrade rights. But if a product includes downgrade rights, the license terms for that product will indicate which prior versions of the software may be used.

    Downgrade rights for Windows software


    The following OEM versions of Windows software are eligible for downgrade rights.

    Windows 8 Windows 7
    Windows 8 Pro includes downgrade rights to:
    • Windows 7 Professional
    • Windows Vista Business
    Windows 7 Professional and Windows 7 Ultimate include downgrade rights to:
    • Windows Vista Business and Windows Vista Ultimate
    • Windows XP Professional, Windows XP Tablet PC Edition, or Windows XP x64 Edition

    Note Other OEM Windows 7 versions (for example, Windows 7 Home Basic and Windows 7 Home Premium) do not include downgrade rights.

    Steps to downgrade Windows software


    To downgrade Microsoft Windows 8 or Windows 7 software, customers must:

    • Purchase a PC preinstalled with Windows software.
    • Accept the End User Software License Terms.
    • Perform the downgrade or authorize a third party to perform it on their behalf.


    The downgrade process


    Follow these steps to downgrade to a previous version of Windows software:

    1. Obtain genuine Windows media and a corresponding product key for the version of Windows that is eligible for downgrade.
      • The media should come from a prior legally licensed version from the OEM or retail channels.
      • End users who are licensed separately through Microsoft Volume Licensing (VL) may provide their VL media and key to a system builder to facilitate the downgrade on their own systems.

    2. Insert the downgrade-eligible version of Windows media in the CD drive and follow the installation instructions.
    3. Type the product key.
      • If the software was previously activated, you will not be able to activate it online. In this case, the appropriate local Activation Support phone number will be displayed. Call the number and explain the circumstances. When it is determined that the end user has an eligible Windows license, the customer service representative will provide a single-use activation code to activate the software. Please note that Microsoft does not provide a full product key in this scenario.

    4. Activate the software.


    See additional details and FAQ


    Authorizing a third party to exercise downgrade rights for an end user


    Provided that certain requirements are met, end users may request that another party perform the downgrade on their behalf. The following document explains how to meet those requirements and what the process entails.
    End User Downgrade Rights Facilitation Options .pdf 88 KB
    Because downgrade rights apply to end users, they are not primarily designed for third-party facilitation, which has many complications. Also, such facilitation is not suitable for carrying out on a large scale.

    Following the above link:
    See additional details and FAQ yields the following.

    What to know about downgrade rights

    The following provides more details about downgrade rights for Windows 8 Pro; Windows 7 Professional; Windows 7 Ultimate; Windows Server 2008 Standard, Enterprise, and Datacenter versions; and Windows Small Business Server 2008 Premium Edition.​​​​​​​​​​​​​


    • Also see the Downgrade Rights FAQ.
    • End users can use the following media for their downgrades: retail (full packaged product), or system builder edge-to-edge media (DVD), provided the software is acquired in accordance with the Microsoft OEM System Builder License. End users can use one legal version of the downgrade media for multiple installations. They don't need to have one set of media for each PC they are downgrading, because they have acquired legitimate full operating system licenses for the most recent version, which gave them the right to downgrade.
    • In the event the end user opts to downgrade, neither Microsoft nor the PC manufacturer is obligated to provide customer product support for systems on which downgraded software is installed.
    • The software may not be installed on any computer system other than the one that was downgraded under this right.
    • If downgrading, the end user cannot use the new operating system (for example, Windows 8 Pro) and the downgraded operating system (for example, Windows 7 Professional) at the same time.
    • If an end user chooses to downgrade to an approved, prior version of the Windows desktop operating system, the PC manufacturer still must apply the desktop operating system Certificate of Authenticity (COA) to the PC.
    • End users may reinstall the software at any time, provided the downgraded operating system has been removed from the computer, and that software is reinstalled on the same PC on which it was originally installed, using the original OEM system builder edge-to-edge media (DVD) distributed with the original PC. The end user will need to use the product key, located in the center of the Certificate of Authenticity (COA), in order to activate the following products:
      • Windows 8 Pro
      • Windows 7 Professional or Windows 7 Ultimate
      • Windows Vista Business or Windows Vista Ultimate
      • Windows XP Professional
      • Windows XP Tablet PC Edition
      • Windows XP x64 Edition
      • Windows Server 2008
      • Windows Small Business Server 2008

    • For Client Access License (CAL) downgrades, end users may use Windows Device CALs and Windows User CALs with an earlier version of the software in accordance with the terms of the of the Windows Server 2008 End User Software License Terms.

    This summary is intended to be a general informational overview of the downgrade rights outlined in the End User Software License Terms for the indicated Microsoft OEM system builder product. Please refer to the actual License Agreement for the precise terms and conditions that govern use of the software.

    Downgrade rights FAQ


    Q. Who can install the downgrade software?


    Q. Where does the system builder or end user get the Windows 7 Professional, Windows Vista Business, Windows Vista Ultimate, Windows XP Professional, Windows XP Tablet PC Edition, or Windows XP x64 Edition media disk to perform the downgrade?


    Q. Do I need separate media for each downgrade?


    Q. Do I include the media in the box with the end user's system?


    Q. Will the downgraded software require product activation? If so, what product key should be used to activate the software?


    Q. Clarify again why product activation may fail?


    Q. What are the end-user benefits of downgrade rights?







    Last edited by znod; 17 Mar 2013 at 10:04.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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