Why is running your second OS in virtual so much easier th

whs

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If you want to install a second Operating system on your system you have several options :

• Double boot
• Install in a virtual partition
• Install in a VHD
• And maybe some other options

The intuitive move seems to be to install with double boot. But that can be extremely frustrating. If the second OS is a Linux distro, you get your bootmgr clobbered by the Grub which will give you a lot of trouble the day you want to get rid of it.

If the second system is Windows 8, you may run into complications with the UEFI and have similar problems as with Linux.

In any case, a double boot is not very fluent for concurrent operation because you have to take down OS #1 and boot OS #2 if you want to switch.

None of those problems arise when you install in virtual. In fact there are a lot more advantages.

1. The installation of the second OS is completely isolated from the host OS. No impact on the bootmgr or anything else. The virtual partition ends up to be a folder which you can move to any partition or disk drive if you want to change the location of the virtual partition.

2. You can move that installation folder to an external drive attached via USB and run your system from there. That is how I run Windows 8 and Zorin (an Ubuntu based distro).

3. If you want to 'image' your virtual system at any given point in time, you just copy the installation folder to another partition/disk and you save the status of your OS at that moment. That beats imaging in simplicity and execution time.

4. You can run the virtual system and the host system side by side. That means you switch from one system to another with 1 click. No shutdown and reboot required.

5. You can move data easily between both systems because the clipboard is shared. What you copy in one system you can paste in the other system. Compare that to moving data in a double booted setup.

6. You can use facilities of the host system during the guest system session. E.g. I use a fancy snipping tool that I have in Windows 7 to make snips in my Windows 8 and Zorin windows. The same with my screen recorder which I start in Windows 7 but I record e.g. activities in Windows 8. No need to install such programs in the guest system - and in Linux they are not available anyhow.

7. You can chose to run the guest system full screen and exclusively (then you have no access to the host), but you can get back to the dual mode with 1 click.

8. You can run programs in one machine whilst you are working in the other machine. E.g. installing updates, or running your Webradio.

9. And if you are really bold, you install your second (third, forth, etc.) OS on an external drive - like I did. Then you can carry those systems to any PC and run them there.

10. And the day you want to get rid of that OS, you just delete the VMware folder. No bootmgr and MBR fixes or any other exotic operations.

I am sure I forgot a few advantages. But that should give you an idea.

The next question is usually performance. Here I see very little difference between running an OS 'native' or running it virtual. You judge for yourself when you watch my two demos linked below. And remember, I am even running from an external disk attached via USB. And here is the Windows scoring of this setup - for whatever it's worth.

2013-02-12_2118.png


Will I ever wrestle with a double/triple boot again - NO WAY. I have used Virtual Box in the past, but now I use the VMware Player which I find better suited. Here are the links:

Demo running Windows 8 in VMware Player
Demo running Zorin in VMware Player
Tutorial by Shawn on how to install an OS (Win8 as example) in VMware Player
My tutorial on how to install on the virtual system on an external disk
Tutorial on how to share partitions between Host and Guest
 
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Very useful post. Thanks. You might want to explicitly mention (certainly not necessary) running two systems--one via Remode Desktop Connection (RDC). I do that a lot here--run Win8 on an old laptop from my MacBook Pro via RDC. The old laptop is relatively unpleasant to use.

And, you might bring in some of the disadvantages of virtual. I have not used virtual too much--only Win7 as installed on Boot Camp run virtually via MacBook Pro. But, I didn't like having to have dedicated memory and disk space for Win7 (as I recall). I don't have to do that using RDC. And, while I certainly haven't investigated the advantages you mention above in the context of RDC, some of them apply to RDC, e.g., running programs, etc., on both at the same time.
 

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If the second system is Windows 8, you may run into complications with the UEFI and have similar problems as with Linux.

Not sure what mean by that?
 

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Very useful post. Thanks. You might want to explicitly mention (certainly not necessary) running two systems--one via Remode Desktop Connection (RDC). I do that a lot here--run Win8 on an old laptop from my MacBook Pro via RDC. The old laptop is relatively unpleasant to use.

And, you might bring in some of the disadvantages of virtual. I have not used virtual too much--only Win7 as installed on Boot Camp run virtually via MacBook Pro. But, I didn't like having to have dedicated memory and disk space for Win7 (as I recall). I don't have to do that using RDC. And, while I certainly haven't investigated the advantages you mention above in the context of RDC, some of them apply to RDC, e.g., running programs, etc., on both at the same time.
I am not really familar with RDC except for Teamviewer that I have used a couple of times.

As far as disk space usage goes, it is dynamic. You define a maximum and it is used as you go. For Win8 I defined 40GB and 23GBs are now used and allocated . For Zorin I defined 20GB and 8GB are currently used and allocated. I run both systems on a USB attached 60GB external disk which is nearly half empty at this moment.

The real big advantage is that my Windows 8 is always up. But I work mostely on Windows 7.
 

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If the second system is Windows 8, you may run into complications with the UEFI and have similar problems as with Linux.

Not sure what mean by that?
I am not exactly sure either. I only read all these war stories where people wrestle with the UEFI. Example: The Win7 system partition is too small to accomodate the Win8 bootmgr. But if you think that this is not a problem, I change it.
 

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If the second system is Windows 8, you may run into complications with the UEFI and have similar problems as with Linux.

Not sure what mean by that?
I am not exactly sure either. I only read all these war stories where people wrestle with the UEFI. Example: The Win7 system partition is too small to accomodate the Win8 bootmgr. But if you think that this is not a problem, I change it.

As with all installs of Windows 7, the 100mb partition is to small.but Windows 8 will install with the 100mb partition. Linux use a 94mb partition.


8-7-Linux-001.PNG

8-7-Linux-002.PNG
 

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So you think double booting Windows 8 with Windows 7 is smooth sailing - or ??
 

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Not had a problem, yet. but like all dual booting, maintenance is the key word.

Delete Win 7-007.PNG
 

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Fancy - but probably not easier to setup than a VMware Player.
 

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VMs are good as test environments, but I prefer multi-boot. Performance is the key word here.
 

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VMs are good as test environments, but I prefer multi-boot. Performance is the key word here.
I see only a very slight performance degradation. And that may come because I run from a USB attached disk. But I could imagine that this little difference is important for games - which I never use. I use only so called 'Office applications'.
 

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There can be a performance issue, especially if you try to run something like games from your VM. However, if you aren't into gaming, I don't think there is enough performance loss to put in the effort and the risks with dual booting.

I haven't honestly had a true "dual boot" in more than 5 years now. But I have tons of VM, I do everything in VM's these days.
 

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Hi there

When using a VM you will need more RAM in your HOST computer -- VM's just EAT RAM for breakfast. CPU power isn't usually an issue on a VM (assuming it's a single user system like Windows rather than running a Virtual Server).

However there's ANOTHER advantage you can do with a VM. You can run it in the background which means you don't even have to be logged on to the HOST machine if the VM is started as a batch / system task.

In addition to this a USER can have an account on the VM without having to have an account on the main Host machine -- this can be great when you want remote access to the VM or just for testing stuff where users have different privilege levels etc.

Ensure though that your VM is on a decently fast disk drive -- otherwise you will get a performance hit with "Double I/O" . On an external drive have yoiur images on an e-sata or usb3 drive. Even better if you have a spare SSD - but ensure your VM has enough RAM otherwise you will get a condition known as Thrashing --this is where the machine is simply moving pages (chunks of storage) to and from disks because there isn't enough RAM in the machine. You can spot this condition easily - the Disk I/O Led will be on almost continuously, while the computer will be seen to be doing nothing.

It's even more horrendous if you get "double thrashing" where both the VM AND the Host are short of RAM.:dinesh:

Finally :
Like Pparks1 I haven't used dual boots for "Donkeys years".

Cheers
jimbo
 

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Very useful post. Thanks. You might want to explicitly mention (certainly not necessary) running two systems--one via Remode Desktop Connection (RDC). I do that a lot here--run Win8 on an old laptop from my MacBook Pro via RDC. The old laptop is relatively unpleasant to use.

And, you might bring in some of the disadvantages of virtual. I have not used virtual too much--only Win7 as installed on Boot Camp run virtually via MacBook Pro. But, I didn't like having to have dedicated memory and disk space for Win7 (as I recall). I don't have to do that using RDC. And, while I certainly haven't investigated the advantages you mention above in the context of RDC, some of them apply to RDC, e.g., running programs, etc., on both at the same time.
I am not really familar with RDC except for Teamviewer that I have used a couple of times.

As far as disk space usage goes, it is dynamic. You define a maximum and it is used as you go. For Win8 I defined 40GB and 23GBs are now used and allocated . For Zorin I defined 20GB and 8GB are currently used and allocated. I run both systems on a USB attached 60GB external disk which is nearly half empty at this moment.

The real big advantage is that my Windows 8 is always up. But I work mostely on Windows 7.
Thanks much. Always up under RDC--using more power though. I like the idea of running on an external drive. And, I see that for your use you don't need much disk space. I really wouldn't either. I probably allocated too much for max when I used virtual. Don't remember if the space allocation was dynamic under Parallels the way I was running virtual. I may think more about using virtual on my MacBook Pro for Win8--without installing 8 on Boot Camp--and, thus, destroying a very good Win7 installation.
 

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Hi there

When using a VM you will need more RAM in your HOST computer -- VM's just EAT RAM for breakfast. CPU power isn't usually an issue on a VM (assuming it's a single user system like Windows rather than running a Virtual Server).

However there's ANOTHER advantage you can do with a VM. You can run it in the background which means you don't even have to be logged on to the HOST machine if the VM is started as a batch / system task.

In addition to this a USER can have an account on the VM without having to have an account on the main Host machine -- this can be great when you want remote access to the VM or just for testing stuff where users have different privilege levels etc.

Ensure though that your VM is on a decently fast disk drive -- otherwise you will get a performance hit with "Double I/O" . On an external drive have yoiur images on an e-sata or usb3 drive. Even better if you have a spare SSD - but ensure your VM has enough RAM otherwise you will get a condition known as Thrashing --this is where the machine is simply moving pages (chunks of storage) to and from disks because there isn't enough RAM in the machine. You can spot this condition easily - the Disk I/O Led will be on almost continuously, while the computer will be seen to be doing nothing.

It's even more horrendous if you get "double thrashing" where both the VM AND the Host are short of RAM.:dinesh:

Finally :
Like Pparks1 I haven't used dual boots for "Donkeys years".

Cheers
jimbo
The RAM allocation will depend on the OS. For Zorin (Linux), I allocated 2GBs and that works very well. For Windows 8 I allocated 4GBs and although the OS uses only appr. 750MB for my type of operation (tinkering), it quickly uses the rest of the RAM for caching. Windows 8 seems to do a better job in caching than Windows 7. That helps with performance.

It is, of course, the best to use a SSD for the virtual system. I run every OS from a SSD, even here where I use an external enclosure. In VMware you can only use USB - eSata is not supported. I tried USB2 and USB3 and both work well with a small advantage for USB3. Shows again that the OS performance comes from the fast access time and not from the data transfer time.

I did try a 5400RPM spinner that I had recovered from one of my laptops. That worked so,so. It was still workable but too slow for me.
 

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Hi there

When using a VM you will need more RAM in your HOST computer -- VM's just EAT RAM for breakfast. CPU power isn't usually an issue on a VM (assuming it's a single user system like Windows rather than running a Virtual Server).

However there's ANOTHER advantage you can do with a VM. You can run it in the background which means you don't even have to be logged on to the HOST machine if the VM is started as a batch / system task.

In addition to this a USER can have an account on the VM without having to have an account on the main Host machine -- this can be great when you want remote access to the VM or just for testing stuff where users have different privilege levels etc.

Ensure though that your VM is on a decently fast disk drive -- otherwise you will get a performance hit with "Double I/O" . On an external drive have yoiur images on an e-sata or usb3 drive. Even better if you have a spare SSD - but ensure your VM has enough RAM otherwise you will get a condition known as Thrashing --this is where the machine is simply moving pages (chunks of storage) to and from disks because there isn't enough RAM in the machine. You can spot this condition easily - the Disk I/O Led will be on almost continuously, while the computer will be seen to be doing nothing.

It's even more horrendous if you get "double thrashing" where both the VM AND the Host are short of RAM.:dinesh:

Finally :
Like Pparks1 I haven't used dual boots for "Donkeys years".

Cheers
jimbo
The RAM allocation will depend on the OS. For Zorin (Linux), I allocated 2GBs and that works very well. For Windows 8 I allocated 4GBs and although the OS uses only appr. 750MB for my type of operation (tinkering), it quickly uses the rest of the RAM for caching. Windows 8 seems to do a better job in caching than Windows 7. That helps with performance.

It is, of course, the best to use a SSD for the virtual system. I run every OS from a SSD, even here where I use an external enclosure. In VMware you can only use USB - eSata is not supported. I tried USB2 and USB3 and both work well with a small advantage for USB3. Shows again that the OS performance comes from the fast access time and not from the data transfer time.

I did try a 5400RPM spinner that I had recovered from one of my laptops. That worked so,so. It was still workable but too slow for me.

I run my vms from mechanical drives, always. No complaints with performance. Sounds like you give your vms quite a lot of ram. I usually give Linux vms 256mb to 1gb. Windows 8 would get around 2 gb. Even ram starved, they run really well.
 

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I've had no problems Dual booting 7&8 on EUFI desktop and regular BIOS laptop, both dual boot systems are on SSDs.
When running 8 on VBox (gave it 4GB RAM, was same as 2GB RAM ) on my desktop, it was noticeable slower than when I moved it to dual boot.
 

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Dave, have a look at this. That is Windows 8 CP booting in vBox. Couldd not be any faster. I really don't see much of a performance hit with my (office type) applications. Maybe for programs where you depend on FPS one would notice an impact.
 

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If you want to install a second Operating system on your system you have several options : ....

None of those problems arise when you install in virtual.
I am getting bored with what I am doing. Thinking of going back to Win7 on my old lappy and doing something I haven't done before on a Windows machine. In this regard, if I choose to use VMware Player to run Win8 virtually on the old lappy after returning it Win7, then can I use a Win8 disk image made via Windows 7 File Recovery (on Win8) to set things up or, alternatively, use, say, a disk image made via Acronis or Paragon to set things up?

The old lappy only has 2 GB of RAM, but I never would be running two applicatons/tasks of significance from both systems at once. Do you thing 2 GB would be a problem?

Thanks for any help.
 

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    Dual Boot:
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    Win7 Ult RAID 0 on Caviar Black SATA 3's
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    Cooler Master 932 HAF
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    Zalman CNPS9900MAX-B CPU Fan
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