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Why is running your second OS in virtual so much easier th

  1. #11


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,514
    Vista and Win7


    Quote Originally Posted by vrosa View Post
    VMs are good as test environments, but I prefer multi-boot. Performance is the key word here.
    I see only a very slight performance degradation. And that may come because I run from a USB attached disk. But I could imagine that this little difference is important for games - which I never use. I use only so called 'Office applications'.

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  2. #12


    There can be a performance issue, especially if you try to run something like games from your VM. However, if you aren't into gaming, I don't think there is enough performance loss to put in the effort and the risks with dual booting.

    I haven't honestly had a true "dual boot" in more than 5 years now. But I have tons of VM, I do everything in VM's these days.
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  3. #13


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there

    When using a VM you will need more RAM in your HOST computer -- VM's just EAT RAM for breakfast. CPU power isn't usually an issue on a VM (assuming it's a single user system like Windows rather than running a Virtual Server).

    However there's ANOTHER advantage you can do with a VM. You can run it in the background which means you don't even have to be logged on to the HOST machine if the VM is started as a batch / system task.

    In addition to this a USER can have an account on the VM without having to have an account on the main Host machine -- this can be great when you want remote access to the VM or just for testing stuff where users have different privilege levels etc.

    Ensure though that your VM is on a decently fast disk drive -- otherwise you will get a performance hit with "Double I/O" . On an external drive have yoiur images on an e-sata or usb3 drive. Even better if you have a spare SSD - but ensure your VM has enough RAM otherwise you will get a condition known as Thrashing --this is where the machine is simply moving pages (chunks of storage) to and from disks because there isn't enough RAM in the machine. You can spot this condition easily - the Disk I/O Led will be on almost continuously, while the computer will be seen to be doing nothing.

    It's even more horrendous if you get "double thrashing" where both the VM AND the Host are short of RAM.

    Finally :
    Like Pparks1 I haven't used dual boots for "Donkeys years".

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #14


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by znod View Post
    Very useful post. Thanks. You might want to explicitly mention (certainly not necessary) running two systems--one via Remode Desktop Connection (RDC). I do that a lot here--run Win8 on an old laptop from my MacBook Pro via RDC. The old laptop is relatively unpleasant to use.

    And, you might bring in some of the disadvantages of virtual. I have not used virtual too much--only Win7 as installed on Boot Camp run virtually via MacBook Pro. But, I didn't like having to have dedicated memory and disk space for Win7 (as I recall). I don't have to do that using RDC. And, while I certainly haven't investigated the advantages you mention above in the context of RDC, some of them apply to RDC, e.g., running programs, etc., on both at the same time.
    I am not really familar with RDC except for Teamviewer that I have used a couple of times.

    As far as disk space usage goes, it is dynamic. You define a maximum and it is used as you go. For Win8 I defined 40GB and 23GBs are now used and allocated . For Zorin I defined 20GB and 8GB are currently used and allocated. I run both systems on a USB attached 60GB external disk which is nearly half empty at this moment.

    The real big advantage is that my Windows 8 is always up. But I work mostely on Windows 7.
    Thanks much. Always up under RDC--using more power though. I like the idea of running on an external drive. And, I see that for your use you don't need much disk space. I really wouldn't either. I probably allocated too much for max when I used virtual. Don't remember if the space allocation was dynamic under Parallels the way I was running virtual. I may think more about using virtual on my MacBook Pro for Win8--without installing 8 on Boot Camp--and, thus, destroying a very good Win7 installation.
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  5. #15


    Posts : 5,592
    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    Fancy - but probably not easier to setup than a VMware Player.
    One day, I must try Windows to go.
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  6. #16


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,514
    Vista and Win7


    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there

    When using a VM you will need more RAM in your HOST computer -- VM's just EAT RAM for breakfast. CPU power isn't usually an issue on a VM (assuming it's a single user system like Windows rather than running a Virtual Server).

    However there's ANOTHER advantage you can do with a VM. You can run it in the background which means you don't even have to be logged on to the HOST machine if the VM is started as a batch / system task.

    In addition to this a USER can have an account on the VM without having to have an account on the main Host machine -- this can be great when you want remote access to the VM or just for testing stuff where users have different privilege levels etc.

    Ensure though that your VM is on a decently fast disk drive -- otherwise you will get a performance hit with "Double I/O" . On an external drive have yoiur images on an e-sata or usb3 drive. Even better if you have a spare SSD - but ensure your VM has enough RAM otherwise you will get a condition known as Thrashing --this is where the machine is simply moving pages (chunks of storage) to and from disks because there isn't enough RAM in the machine. You can spot this condition easily - the Disk I/O Led will be on almost continuously, while the computer will be seen to be doing nothing.

    It's even more horrendous if you get "double thrashing" where both the VM AND the Host are short of RAM.

    Finally :
    Like Pparks1 I haven't used dual boots for "Donkeys years".

    Cheers
    jimbo
    The RAM allocation will depend on the OS. For Zorin (Linux), I allocated 2GBs and that works very well. For Windows 8 I allocated 4GBs and although the OS uses only appr. 750MB for my type of operation (tinkering), it quickly uses the rest of the RAM for caching. Windows 8 seems to do a better job in caching than Windows 7. That helps with performance.

    It is, of course, the best to use a SSD for the virtual system. I run every OS from a SSD, even here where I use an external enclosure. In VMware you can only use USB - eSata is not supported. I tried USB2 and USB3 and both work well with a small advantage for USB3. Shows again that the OS performance comes from the fast access time and not from the data transfer time.

    I did try a 5400RPM spinner that I had recovered from one of my laptops. That worked so,so. It was still workable but too slow for me.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #17


    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there

    When using a VM you will need more RAM in your HOST computer -- VM's just EAT RAM for breakfast. CPU power isn't usually an issue on a VM (assuming it's a single user system like Windows rather than running a Virtual Server).

    However there's ANOTHER advantage you can do with a VM. You can run it in the background which means you don't even have to be logged on to the HOST machine if the VM is started as a batch / system task.

    In addition to this a USER can have an account on the VM without having to have an account on the main Host machine -- this can be great when you want remote access to the VM or just for testing stuff where users have different privilege levels etc.

    Ensure though that your VM is on a decently fast disk drive -- otherwise you will get a performance hit with "Double I/O" . On an external drive have yoiur images on an e-sata or usb3 drive. Even better if you have a spare SSD - but ensure your VM has enough RAM otherwise you will get a condition known as Thrashing --this is where the machine is simply moving pages (chunks of storage) to and from disks because there isn't enough RAM in the machine. You can spot this condition easily - the Disk I/O Led will be on almost continuously, while the computer will be seen to be doing nothing.

    It's even more horrendous if you get "double thrashing" where both the VM AND the Host are short of RAM.

    Finally :
    Like Pparks1 I haven't used dual boots for "Donkeys years".

    Cheers
    jimbo
    The RAM allocation will depend on the OS. For Zorin (Linux), I allocated 2GBs and that works very well. For Windows 8 I allocated 4GBs and although the OS uses only appr. 750MB for my type of operation (tinkering), it quickly uses the rest of the RAM for caching. Windows 8 seems to do a better job in caching than Windows 7. That helps with performance.

    It is, of course, the best to use a SSD for the virtual system. I run every OS from a SSD, even here where I use an external enclosure. In VMware you can only use USB - eSata is not supported. I tried USB2 and USB3 and both work well with a small advantage for USB3. Shows again that the OS performance comes from the fast access time and not from the data transfer time.

    I did try a 5400RPM spinner that I had recovered from one of my laptops. That worked so,so. It was still workable but too slow for me.
    I run my vms from mechanical drives, always. No complaints with performance. Sounds like you give your vms quite a lot of ram. I usually give Linux vms 256mb to 1gb. Windows 8 would get around 2 gb. Even ram starved, they run really well.
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  8. #18


    Tropical Island Pair a Dice
    Posts : 3,030
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64/ Windows 7 Ult x64


    I've had no problems Dual booting 7&8 on EUFI desktop and regular BIOS laptop, both dual boot systems are on SSDs.
    When running 8 on VBox (gave it 4GB RAM, was same as 2GB RAM ) on my desktop, it was noticeable slower than when I moved it to dual boot.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #19


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,514
    Vista and Win7


    Dave, have a look at this. That is Windows 8 CP booting in vBox. Couldd not be any faster. I really don't see much of a performance hit with my (office type) applications. Maybe for programs where you depend on FPS one would notice an impact.
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  10. #20


    Posts : 2,156
    Win7 Ult on DIY; Win8 Pro on MBP/Parallels; Win7 Ult on MBP/Boot Camp; Win7 Ult/Win8 Pro on HP


    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    If you want to install a second Operating system on your system you have several options : ....

    None of those problems arise when you install in virtual.
    I am getting bored with what I am doing. Thinking of going back to Win7 on my old lappy and doing something I haven't done before on a Windows machine. In this regard, if I choose to use VMware Player to run Win8 virtually on the old lappy after returning it Win7, then can I use a Win8 disk image made via Windows 7 File Recovery (on Win8) to set things up or, alternatively, use, say, a disk image made via Acronis or Paragon to set things up?

    The old lappy only has 2 GB of RAM, but I never would be running two applicatons/tasks of significance from both systems at once. Do you thing 2 GB would be a problem?

    Thanks for any help.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Why is running your second OS in virtual so much easier th
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