Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


[Desktop display quality loss] with the win8/new gpu

  1. #11


    Posts : 123
    Windows 8 64 bits


    so there is no driver for me (

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  2. #12


    Quote Originally Posted by Hopachi View Post

    I've noticed something:
    - you both have large resolutions (1080p and 1050p)
    - geforce 560 and 660
    - and you both have the same problem
    - what monitors? hmmm....

    Try a lower resolution just for testing, then you can switch back.
    Do a 800x600 and 1024x768 just to see if JPG is displayed better.
    Haha doesn't everyone use these resolutions these days? Yep resolution doesn't change anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopachi View Post
    I don't know how many people are suffering from this but not so many I guess.
    It must be the hardware + drivers combinations on Win8 that makes this happen.

    I'm pretty sure you're both on LCD's (who's using CRT anyway?) and you'll normally need 60Hz so make sure it's 60Hz.

    If you, by any chance, reinstall Nvidia drivers, remove older settings and restore defaults.
    Run without gfx overclocking just to see if that causes the problem or not.
    You'd be surprised...I've come across at least 6 threads on other forums about people being annoyed by the same issue and I didn't have to look to hard (probably 15-20 people citing this behaviour). I'm guessing more people have the problem (not really a problem as I'm sure Microsoft knows they are compressing the images to jpeg when they are made as wallpapers) and just don't realise it because they think it is normal or aren't looking closely enough or don't remember how it was with Windows 7.

    My laptop which is also on Windows 8 (after being on Windows 7 with identical hardware and having perfectly fine wallpapers) suffers from the same problem at a resolution of 1366x768. Honestly the quality of the wallpapers are fine as I can view them in a photo editor and they will be crystal clear. When set as a wallpaper Windows decides to compress it...

    It is possible that windows compresses ALL file formats for wallpapers as when I go to C:\Users\USER_NAME\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Themes\CachedFiles my wallpaper despite now being a PNG file has been changed to a JPEG file of a much smaller size. So windows is still compressing the PNG files but the quality isn't as poor. It is likely that when someone uses a JPEG as a wallpaper, because of the already poor quality of the jpeg it gets further compressed and a low quality wallpaper results (kinda like a double effect). HOWEVER, I used to use JPEGs in windows 7 and they weren't compressed so much. SO maybe in windows 8, MS has decided to increase compression of the cached file/transcoded wallpaper?

    Also this has nothing to do with the graphics card or the driver as I used the Intel HD 4000 graphics and I saw the same thing. The fact that it happens on my laptop as well on both Intel HD 3000 graphics and the nVidia GT555m (switchable graphics) rules out that it is a driver problem me thinks!

    I ask anyone with Windows 7/8 to do a test. On your Windows 7 computer browse to C:\Windows\Web\Wallpaper\Windows and grab img0.jpeg which is the default windows 7 wallpaper that I've used in my posts above. Set this as your wallpaper in Windows 8 and tell me how the quality is (look around the windows logo especially for artifacts and quality reduction).

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopachi View Post
    IMPORTANT:
    One last thing: check for any extra (ICC) color profiles that may be required for your monitor.
    This seems to be helping some people around here (I've seen that in an older thread but don't have the link).

    @Pauloz1890:
    Acer Monitor here:
    Acer Support: Downloads & Support Documents - Monitor / G Series / G245H

    Get the monitor driver, install it. Look for the .icm file and install it as well.
    Then restart and see if it helped.
    I already had this driver installed along with the .ICM file.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #13


    Quote Originally Posted by StefaNafetS View Post
    And your quick solution worked.

    Ive saved the file as PNG through Photoshop and it twice in size. It looks I will need to double my space for my picture folder. However my wallpapers are bigger than my actual display resolution 1920x1200 to 1680x1050. If I reduce their size to my display resolution do I loose any quality in displaying them?

    Do you think there are any quality differences when using a converter or another or just save those pictures as PNG from an editing program like Photoshop?

    How do I solve this loss in case of themes not just wallpapers ?
    Ahh ok so it worked for you too. Yep my wallpapers were originally only like 150MB...now they are like 650MB or something. If you reduce the size of your wallpapers from 1920x1200 to 1680x1050 by cropping then you will not lose any quality. There is no need to reduce the size of your wallpapers to your resolution...I tried this and it didn't make a difference to the quality. I use the "Fill" effect when the wallpaper is set in Win8 to avoid any distortions. As long the wallpaper is larger in both length and width than the resolution you're using then it should be fine.

    Onto your other point: When I had a JPEG file and I simply renamed the extension to .PNG it made no difference to the quality when set as a wallpaper (i.e. win8 still compressed it too much). However when I opened the JPEG in MS Paint and saved it as a PNG file then set it as the wallpaper it came out as nice quality. I'm not 100% sure but I think MS Paint does a file conversion in this case. I simply used Irfanview so that I could convert all my JPEG wallpapers to PNG in a batch (haha converting them all in paint would take a looong time ). As for whether there is a quality difference between re-saving them as a PNG in MS paint and converting them with an actual converter (like Irfanview), I have no idea (I'm hardly an expert on image files haha). I know that when you just simply rename the extension there is no conversion...

    It is important to note that even as a PNG file Win8 still converts it to JPEG when using it as a wallpaper (the quality is still reduced sever so slightly but it is hardly visible to my eye). I also know that in Irfanview, you can set your windows wallpaper as any image file format you want and it avoids windows from compressing it to a jpeg. However you have to do it manually so it kinda defeats the purpose of a slideshow/rotational desktop wallpaper and when I tried to set my wallpaper using Irfanview it didn't seem to do its job by upholding the quality of the image file (maybe I was doing something wrong..).

    Quote Originally Posted by StefaNafetS View Post
    Anyway Im so gratefull to you. I was about to reinstall my windows 7. This was the last straw for me after other incomodities with windows 8.

    What program do you use to have that sweet white start button ????
    No problem...it was really annoying me too . I use classic shell (Welcome to Classic Shell) for my start menu in Windows 8...funnily enough I don't use the start menu that much but it is nice having it there.

    How did you get all your icons to be "metro" style btw? That suits windows 8

    Quote Originally Posted by StefaNafetS View Post
    I would call this partially solved. The theme wallpaper quality preservation remain in doubt tough

    If a moderator/ administrator could edit the thread title the way I modified it in the original post and to move the whole thread to customization since its proven its not a graphic card issue.

    I stronlgy recommend an administrator to put this as an Important announcement somewhere to be broadly visible.Its about Windows 8 dealing with non PNG wallpaers
    I agree about calling it partially solved. I'm not so sure about making it an important announcement as I don't think it is a bug or anything. Microsoft intends to compress the wallpapers...i have no doubt about that. What gets me though is that they should have just left it the same as it was in Windows 7/Vista...
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  4. #14


    Posts : 123
    Windows 8 64 bits


    Quote Originally Posted by pauloz1890 View Post
    It is possible that windows compresses ALL file formats for wallpapers as when I go to C:\Users\USER_NAME\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Themes\CachedFiles my wallpaper despite now being a PNG file has been changed to a JPEG file of a much smaller size. So windows is still compressing the PNG files but the quality isn't as poor. It is likely that when someone uses a JPEG as a wallpaper, because of the already poor quality of the jpeg it gets further compressed and a low quality wallpaper results (kinda like a double effect). HOWEVER, I used to use JPEGs in windows 7 and they weren't compressed so much. SO maybe in windows 8, MS has decided to increase compression of the cached file/transcoded wallpaper?
    yeah mine too are changed back to jpeg but the size difference isnt that big from 2,54 mb to 2,39 mb but for me it lowered the original wallpaper resolution 1920x1200 to my screen size 1680x1050 so I guess this decrease in size is normal. Not sure about quality. Are u sure it makes your files alot smaller ?

    how the start menu looks like with that classic shell on windows 8 ? Show a capture pls!!. I just instaled the latest version and I my metro start button doesnt look like yours : its blue and when i click it its microsft multicolor style. Do you use a custom one to have it plain white? How to do that?

    Free is better but the cheap products from Stardocklike start8 or decor8 are making this thing enough customizable for evryone unless if you are a customization whore
    Last edited by Orphydian; 18 Dec 2012 at 11:10.
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  5. #15


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by pauloz1890 View Post
    Haha doesn't everyone use these resolutions these days? Yep resolution doesn't change anything.
    Alright, alright. Was just for testing.

    Also this has nothing to do with the graphics card or the driver as I used the Intel HD 4000 graphics and I saw the same thing. The fact that it happens on my laptop as well on both Intel HD 3000 graphics and the nVidia GT555m (switchable graphics) rules out that it is a driver problem me thinks!
    I also have Intel HD 4000 graphics on a laptop with a Nvidia 630M and resolution 1366x768...

    I ask anyone with Windows 7/8 to do a test. On your Windows 7 computer browse to C:\Windows\Web\Wallpaper\Windows and grab img0.jpeg which is the default windows 7 wallpaper that I've used in my posts above. Set this as your wallpaper in Windows 8 and tell me how the quality is (look around the windows logo especially for artifacts and quality reduction).
    I'll do this test... we'll see. I guess you never know for sure until you test.
    Do I need to test that jpg on Win8? (copy it from my win7 install).

    I already had this driver installed along with the .ICM file.
    Yeah something like that I got here installed as well... doesn't seem to do much but is installed just in case.
    But it's no it, so it seems.

    I'll look into what you described here about the JPG compression, to see it I happens or not.
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  6. #16


    Posts : 123
    Windows 8 64 bits


    What about my monitor driver? Its mandatory that every monitor to have a special driver. Ive got just a disk with manuals.If at device manager undr Monitor say Generic Plug and play monitor this means I dont neeed a special driver right? In ay case there is no such driver on my manufacturer page.
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  7. #17


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by StefaNafetS View Post
    What about my monitor driver? Its mandatory that every monitor to have a special driver. Ive got just a disk with manuals.If at device manager undr Monitor say Generic Plug and play monitor this means I dont neeed a special driver right? In ay case there is no such driver on my manufacturer page.
    No it's not mandatory. Most of my monitors use generic one. But in some cases, windows update provides you extra monitor drivers and color profiles and that means some manufacturers recommend their profiles for ensuring correct display of color. Nowadays this color profile thing tends to disappear because they all try to use standard conventions.
    That's why the generic profile/drivers suits most cases.

    Just give it a try with the color profile in the link I gave you for your monitor. But as Paulo mentioned in a previous post, It's the compression in Windows that's to blame so I'll check that out too.

    Installing a color profile doesn't do any thing wrong and you can switch between profiles and generic version anytime.
    In some cases, it really helps. Especially if the monitor's manufacturer make such profiles.

    Quote Originally Posted by StefaNafetS View Post
    so there is no driver for me

    The one I mentioned in your case suits the 22x series (you know what the x stands for right?) and you have 220 so that's good if you ask me.
    That's all Packard Bell gives us so blame them. It's possible that it doesn't help but just apply it to make sure.
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  8. #18


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by pauloz1890 View Post
    I ask anyone with Windows 7/8 to do a test. On your Windows 7 computer browse to C:\Windows\Web\Wallpaper\Windows and grab img0.jpeg which is the default windows 7 wallpaper that I've used in my posts above. Set this as your wallpaper in Windows 8 and tell me how the quality is (look around the windows logo especially for artifacts and quality reduction)
    Well here I go:

    -laptop GFX: Intel 4000
    -native resolution: 1366x768

    img0.jpg on desktop (fill mode)
    Click image for larger version
    Took just the center so you can see.
    What do you think? There is some heavy blur on red and yellow but looks OK to me (it's a normal procedure applied here, I don't think PNG will do better because it still has to resize to 1366x768). But you were right: looks bad... compared to original.

    Well, I'm affected as well but didn't payed attention to it. Because desktop is full with icons, pretty messy.

    Still weird compared to Win7 but logically:
    You get a blur because the size is not native (wallpaper has 1920x1200). The blur has more affect on red and yellow so it appears.

    The same thing is seen in your picture as well.

    As a conclusion I can say that this is not the fault of JPG compression but the theme applier which has to fill or fit the image on screen.

    It is also not due to the monitor so I can stop wasting time giving you guys color profiles. Sorry for that.
    (Since you can print screen the lags means is not the monitor but the actual scaling on the desktop).

    In other words the image from Windows (img01) is easily explained: 1920x1200 is not 16/9 HD or 1080p.
    By one or another fill modes it will blur it on another resolution.
    Therefore I suggest you try this:
    Click image for larger version
    Don't mind the preview, it's good quality. It's NOT scaled.
    It's cropped to 1080p, should provide best quality on native HD screen. It is JPG alright so you can see it's not due to the compression (99% in this case).

    For Stefan's picture, there is a bit harder to understand the lags there because I don't know the image's native resolution but with one or another trick, JPG should do fine as well. Cropping that to (1050p) native should give best results indeed. I use GIMP for this but other tools like Photoshop, Paint Shop Pro can do the trick as well.

    In my opinion you don't need to replace JPG with PNG, you just need to remove the rescaling/resizing.
    This issue It seems to happen all the time and on bigger monitors with higher resolutions it looks worse.

    But the question still remains: why in Win7 it looked better (at least for you guys)?
    Does Win8 use different codecs for images?
    Do probably newer image codecs need updates?
    Do our eyes need replacement?
    We'll see... In the meantime, just crop the images if they look annoying.

    Cheers
    Hopachi
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  9. #19


    Posts : 123
    Windows 8 64 bits


    no dude it doesnt work. Neither you scale to your native resolution or you croped it. I have downloaded the 1680x1050 versions of those wallpapers ( my resolution) so usnt nothing to scale. And anyway I dont need to crop the 1920x1200 to 1080 since its exaclty my monitor ratio 16:10.
    Last edited by Orphydian; 19 Dec 2012 at 08:06.
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  10. #20


    Quote Originally Posted by StefaNafetS View Post
    how the start menu looks like with that classic shell on windows 8 ? Show a capture pls!!. I just instaled the latest version and I my metro start button doesnt look like yours : its blue and when i click it its microsft multicolor style. Do you use a custom one to have it plain white? How to do that?

    Free is better but the cheap products from Stardocklike start8 or decor8 are making this thing enough customizable for evryone unless if you are a customization whore
    Classic Shell is free and very customisable. Hmm when i installed classic shell mine came with the white button but it was selected as a custom start button...you probably have it too if you navigate to the directory shown in my pic below.

    PS: How did you get your icons to be "metro" style btw?

    Click image for larger version

    Click image for larger version
    Last edited by pauloz1890; 19 Dec 2012 at 02:35.
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