Goodbye Windows 8, hello Windows 8.1

Consider the following: Internet Explorer 11 is available as a preview for Windows 7 or as part of the Windows 8.1 preview, but not for Windows 8. Similarly, PowerShell 4 will run on Windows 7 or Windows 8.1, but not Windows 8 — even though it will be available for Windows Server 2012, which is the same core code as Windows 8.

So does this mean Microsoft giving up on Windows 8? Um, no.
Windows 8.1 is Windows 8, as far as Microsoft is concerned. It's an update to Windows 8 that will be available in the Windows Store, free of charge. It has new APIs that aren't in Windows 8 that Internet Explorer can use.
[h=3]Read this[/h]
Windows 8.1 unveiled: will it change your mind about Windows 8?

The Start button is back. But that's just one of a very long list of changes you'll find in Windows 8.1, which will be available as a preview in a few weeks and will be released before the end of the year. Don't let the name or the price tag (free) fool you: this is a major update. Here's what's inside.

• Read more

Microsoft will port some — but not all — of those back to Windows 7 for IE 11; as we understand it, the HTML5 Media Source Extensions and Encrypted Media Extensions support that lets you stream Netflix in IE 11 without needing a plugin won't make it to Windows 7.

Goodbye Windows 8, hello Windows 8.1 | ZDNet

 

[CountMike]

My understanding that WEI (useless as it is) is still there but it is hidden and could be started manually. Libraries, I newer even understood what actually were handy for. As for drive imaging utility, I guess it couldn't stand up to competition from third party Apps so it was, kill it or make it better, so they took the easy way out. Frankly never had any use for those 3 thhings.

 

[BlueMasterFX]

Don't you guys think that Windows 8.1 should have been cleaned up more? I mean I'm sure there are a bunch of files and folders that are never used but still get carried over with every Windows release. I still see some XP icons in there lol.

Or is that difficult for the Windows team to do that? It probably won't happen in Windows 8.x but Windows 9 should be completely cleaned up from useless codes, dlls, newer icons and all that stuff. Unless they have already planned to rewrite Windows which would be nice.

I guess it would take maybe 5 years. Remember the whole rewriting thing from Longhorn to Vista?

 

[CountMike]

Don't you guys think that Windows 8.1 should have been cleaned up more? I mean I'm sure there are a bunch of files and folders that are never used but still get carried over with every Windows release. I still see some XP icons in there lol.

Or is that difficult for the Windows team to do that? It probably won't happen in Windows 8.x but Windows 9 should be completely cleaned up from useless codes, dlls, newer icons and all that stuff. Unless they have already planned to rewrite Windows which would be nice.

I guess it would take maybe 5 years. Remember the whole rewriting thing from Longhorn to Vista?

My sentiments too. I think that insisting on compatibility with older systems is keeping most of that stuff in. One clean, mean system with built in virtual machine that can automatically instantly switch when legacy software is used would give SW developers chance to make smaller, faster programs. At some time they'll have to brake away from all that obsolete stuff. If I was Microsoft boss, I would now form a "Future team", let them make a barebone OS with just a hint of UI, circulate it to developers an let them go hog wild with it. After that I would pick up the best of stuff , pay them what they deserve and let public vote on the right combination or just decide by themselves which parts to use. Even now, most of the applets that come with the windows can be replaced by freeware better than windows ones.
And the size, XP was barely 700MB that could be parred to 500 or so, Win 8 is what, 3.5 GB on installation disk. Well, excuse me but I don't think that W8 is 5 times better than XP.

 

[Mystere]

Don't you guys think that Windows 8.1 should have been cleaned up more? I mean I'm sure there are a bunch of files and folders that are never used but still get carried over with every Windows release. I still see some XP icons in there lol.

The problem is, there are many legacy applications that depend on many of those things being there. Even things like icons. They assume a certain icon is in the system, and if it's not there the app may crash. So Microsoft has to be very judicious about what they remove.

Now, for something like RT, I think they could probably remove a lot of that.. but I think they want to keep RT and 8.x more or less identical other than compiling for ARM.

 

[Mystere]

W8.1 is so much better that I can't really see why so many people are mouthing the same complaints as with W8 -- seems to be they are just behaving like those Call Centre people - mouthing text from prepared scripts --W8.1 is a DIFFERENT ANIMAL to W8.

Lol. As I have been saying all along, this is an ongoing process. Windows will be refined and improved, over the next 5 - 10 years. You have to consider WinRT/Metro as if it were "Windows 1.0", which if you know anything about Windows 1.0 was pretty limited in what it could do. Although I would say that WinRT/Metro is already 10x further along than Windows 1.0 was.

Any new product starts out with a simple set of features, and as time goes on it grows and evolves. Your favorite app platform, SAP, didn't start out where it is today. Version 1 of SAP was nowhere near as compelling. You have to trust that WinRT will evolve to be a full featured API that provides the same functionality as Win32 does today, but that this process may take some time. Eventually, Win32 will become a virtual machine running under WinRT and maybe in 20 years it will go away altogether.. but.. we're in a transition period and transition always means pain. Either you go with the transition, and deal with it... (early adopter) or you stick with the legacy until you can't anymore. Or you switch to something else.

Regardless, all the people whining and complaining about the change are just tilting at windmills. Windows as we know it is going away, and it really has very little to do with tablets or phones.. Although they do have a role to play in the reasons. The real reason is simply to make Windows truly cross platform. And this is just the first steps on a journey which will include not only Desktops, Phones, and Tablets, but also servers and other devices like Microsoft's Sync system in cars. They don't want to be limited to x86/64 based CPU's.

No matter how much people complain, the change to WinRT will not stop, because Microsoft has bet the farm on this. It is a long-term strategy that will take years to play out, and they may have short term losses because of it. But they're no stranger to this. They did the same thing wind Windows NT, which took 8 years to go from first release to first consumer release (XP) (and you should have heard all the complaining then about the Fisher price UI, and how all the old device drivers didn't work, and many apps weren't compatible).

The difference this time is that Microsoft is rolling out the new OS to consumers right away, in the hopes of kick starting the WinRT economy.. That may fail, but it won't stop the progression of Win32 to WinRT in the long run.

 

[SIW2]

Anyone ever think why? Where are the big tech corps going? What future are they trying to shape for the users? It is pretty obvious.

Wood for the trees - Idiom Definition - UsingEnglish.com

 

[Tepid]

Anyone ever think why? Where are the big tech corps going? What future are they trying to shape for the users? It is pretty obvious.

Wood for the trees - Idiom Definition - UsingEnglish.com

Honestly I am not sure that matters that much.

A lot of them are going BYOD and Virtualization.
Work from home and field users

This reduces the cost and burden of in-house support on outside devices.

So, really, in the long run, what is running on devices for the Big Corps becomes less important.
As long as they can get in through Citrix or other means, doesn't matter what device it is.

People still do like Windows. And in the grand scheme of things, it's still a better option for tablets over what is out there now, which are all STILL VERY limited in what they can be used for, outside of work, or even for work software that may not run well in a remote virtual environment.

Things are changing,,, but no, Linux and Mac will not make strong head way even now,

1.) Macs/iPads are over priced for what they offer

2.) Linux is still too underwhelming in supportability of good apps and use over all.

Windows is here to stay for a long time, what they may have to offer in the near future remains to be seen,
I don't think they are going to go the way of pure cloud OS anytime soon though.
Or take away the desktop either. that would be a bad move on MS part.

As for doing something with Win32 Virtual Desktop,, hmmm,, could be, that would probably be a smart move.
RT is too limiting in the long run, even for the price. If they want to out do iPad, Android and whatnot, they need to provide the means to run some 3rd party type desktop apps.

If people would realize the potential of the Win8 Tablets on the Pro side, trust me, iPad/Android would go down in flames.

But so much BS is thrown out there that the average joe who dosent' understand or know the difference, or are just lemmings to the
"I gotta have what everyone else has" attitude.

No, the lemming comment would not be the same with Windows 8 if everyone flocked to it like they should.
Because, they would actually be imformed as to why Windows 8 on a tablet, even desktop and laptop are the better choice.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

@ Jimbo45, Mystere, and Tepid.

Absolutely brilliant posts IMO. Very well thought out and stated. :thumbup:

 

[SIW2]

Does anybody understand the question?

 

[Dave76]

My question for 8.1 is why was WEI, the Libraries and the native drive imaging utility were removed when they were still on Windows 8 when those are useful features that pose no harm? Otherwise 8.1 would in all aspects (except privacy because of the integrated Bing search feature) will be better than 8?

WEI is still there and can be ran manually.
Libraries, not sure never used it.
Native drive imaging is still there: Windows 8.1 Tip: Use System Image Backup

Deprecated, yes, but still alive and kicking
When the Windows 8.1 Preview appeared in June, some upgraders noticed that this new OS version omitted what had previously been a crucial recovery tool: The system image backup that had debuted in Windows 7. But system image backup is indeed available in Windows 8.1. It's just really well hidden.

 

[Nemix]

I'm still waiting for some software to become fully compatible with Windows 8.1 before I make the final decision for the transition from 7 to 8.1.

Mainly I'm waiting on Lenovo to release their Energy Mangement software for Windows 8.1 (very important for my laptop, no release means no Windows 8.1) and Avast 2014 to be released which should be Windows 8.1 certified...other programs can wait.

 

[CountMike]

And I'm still waiting for " object oriented computing" and " modular programs " where they would not need registry and would be highly portable. Stuff like this has been promised very long time ago and were taunted as "The next thing that would revolutionize the way we use computers".Java was supposed to be a bridge between platforms but become one of more dangerous things to have on a system. Personally, I like, support and use any portable program that does what is supposed to do, reason is simple, it does not mess with system and is easy to discard and reengage when needed, could be used from another media without leaving traces on the computer it is used on. If all the programs worked like that OS would be much simpler and less vulnerable place.

 

[lehnerus2000]

The majority of (if not all) programs used to be "portable" before the Registry was introduced.

 

[Mustang]

And I'm still waiting for " object oriented computing" and " modular programs " where they would not need registry and would be highly portable. Stuff like this has been promised very long time ago and were taunted as "The next thing that would revolutionize the way we use computers".Java was supposed to be a bridge between platforms but become one of more dangerous things to have on a system. Personally, I like, support and use any portable program that does what is supposed to do, reason is simple, it does not mess with system and is easy to discard and reengage when needed, could be used from another media without leaving traces on the computer it is used on. If all the programs worked like that OS would be much simpler and less vulnerable place.

:thumb:

 

[Mystere]

My question for 8.1 is why was WEI, the Libraries and the native drive imaging utility were removed when they were still on Windows 8 when those are useful features that pose no harm? Otherwise 8.1 would in all aspects (except privacy because of the integrated Bing search feature) will be better than 8?

None of those were removed per se.

The underlying WEI system is still there, but the display on Computer Properties is gone. This is most likely because it never really made a lot of sense, and with the trend shifting to phones and tablets that are lower power, the WEI just gets even sillier.

Libraries are still there. They're just not shown by default. Open Explorer, go to View, click on Navigation Pane, and check "Show Libraries". Now Libraries are always shown, and they default to the save location.

Native Drive Imagining is also still there, just a little harder to find.

 

[Vertex]

Native Drive Imagining is also still there, just a little harder to find.

The stuff that "is still there, but now a little harder to find" includes the safe boot option and Adhoc networking too. I just hate the stripping away thing they've been doing recently. If they haven't stripped away a number of features present on Windows 7, Windows 8.1 would have been in all means superior but no, somebody on the design team at MS keeps saying, "lets take that and that away because nobody uses them"... Guys at MS who keep making decisions like those need to be fired.

 

[Superfly]

"lets take that and that away because nobody uses them"...

.. that was the argument for removing the start menu as well... how did anybody get around their apps then? Keyboard shortcuts? - how the heck could they say users used it less and less?
Wilfully spewing garbage like that to promote their touch-orientated user experience is reprehensible! Just wish they could prove their claims before "removing" those utilities that users have become accustomed to..

BTW why retain WinSAT without a GUI? are people really going to run a cmd rather that click a GUI shortcut? - makes no sense to me..

...ah well they have their very special telemetry methods

 

[CountMike]

If any of those removed features only made Win smaller or easier to use there could be an excuse but like this.....
To be honest, most of that stuff I didn't use on regular basis, stat menu the least but sure would be nice to have a direct way to access them.

 

[Superfly]

I do appreciate those not needing the start menu...just saying give users the option... like boot to desktop was a welcome addition...

 

[HippsieGypsie]

Does anybody understand the question?

Where are they heading? They're already there. Cloud-centric computing where a user obtains an account to store some or all data relevant to their needs. They have been "shaping" this future since the existence of the Inet.

Correct me if I'm wrong > You and some others are afraid that the industry (or at least major players) will go thin client systems such as what Google is implementing with Chrome and then ultimately to Zero Client. That is nothing new really. Where are the likes of Neoware, Igel Technology, Wyse, Devon IT, VXL, LISCON, and the likes. I don't see them making any big strides. Some businesses have adopted and may adopt it. I heard its a big money saver, for 10% of a IT project is initial software. 90% is maintenance. I'm not a Pro and I wouldn't know if MS offers this. I know they offer VDI.

Bottom line, the market is the polling place. If you, others, or I purchased and used a mobile device, then we voted for mobile devices. If we purchased and use a touch device, then we voted for touch. If we purchased and bought a thin client device, then we voted for thin client.

So far as I know all Windows OSs are native. One can log into a local account to use them. One does not need an internet connection to use them. One can obtain discs for upgrades, updates, and SPs via mail. One does not need to obtain or use Microsoft services. The OSs are totally native to the device.

Are 8 and 8.1 geared for Microsoft Services? Yes they are, and some are on by default. One can turn off the services. Does the average Joe know this? Probably not, but obviously they buy and use a lot of iDevices and/or Androids to do so. They surely voted on that via the marketplace. Therefore, I have to conclude that they really don't care. They seem to love the stuff.

So to personally answer your question > What is Microsoft up to? They are attempting to get a touch-centric OS to run across multiple devices, whether the device is touch-centric or not, whether mobile or not, in conjunction with Windows Phone 8. They are also attempting to sell cloud services, just as others are. For now, a lot of their cloud services are free, just as others' are. One can store system settings, emails, favorites, contacts, calendar, backgrounds, apps ownership, and the like all for free. Therefore, when one changes items on one device, it changes/syncs on all devices. When one purchases a device it all syncs via MS account. I think when Joe and Sue public learn about this then MS will make great strides in sales. I can hear them now > "Oh! You mean just like on my iDevice and Android?!!"

Bottom line, if one does not like any or all of them, turn them off to not use them and don't buy them. Don't like the Metro side? Configure it not to use a lot of it. On 8.1 anyway. How simple is that?