Hurry up and wait: Why Microsoft's holding Windows 8.1

Computerworld - Microsoft's decision to sit on Windows 8.1 for two months after engineers wrap up work was driven by the year's biggest sales cycles, analysts said.

On Wednesday, Microsoft announced it would release Windows 8.1, the first of what's expected to be annual updates to Windows 8, through the Windows Store on Oct. 17. The next day, retail copies of the updated operating system will hit retail, as will new Windows 8.1-powered devices from Microsoft's OEM (original equipment manufacturer) partners.
But with a late August completion date for Windows 8.1 still on track -- what Microsoft calls RTM, for "release to manufacturing" -- some have wondered why the Redmond, Wash., developer plans to hold the update for eight or more weeks.
The questions are justified: Microsoft has made much of its accelerated development and release schedule for Windows updates. Those updates are far more than collections of bug fixes, like the now-discarded service packs, but include improvements, enhancements, and new features and software.

Hurry up and wait: Why Microsoft's holding Windows 8.1 - Computerworld

 

[pparks1]

I'm guessing the use of the term lemon was used to insinuate lack of sales and interest, rather than technical functionality.

I felt Windows 7 was as close to perfect as MS has gotten out of the box. I was surprised at how great it was right from the outset. Windows 8 is fine, but it has a lot of changes that rub people the wrong way. i find it impossible to recommend 8 without a laundry lists of but's.

 

[goodintentions]

There you go, looks again, Edsel was within the looks at that time, come to think about it, Mona Lisa is not that hot chick either but still...
I concur about Metro apps and handling of them but luckily it is not all there is to it, otherwise I wouldn't even consider Win8 as a viable system for desktop PC as it is now.

I just took a screenshot of my desktop just now. Since you guys are so insistent on making it sound like the desktop environment is dead on 8, can you please tell me if I've been imagining my work environment all this time or not?

 

[goodintentions]

I'm guessing the use of the term lemon was used to insinuate lack of sales and interest, rather than technical functionality.

I felt Windows 7 was as close to perfect as MS has gotten out of the box. I was surprised at how great it was right from the outset. Windows 8 is fine, but it has a lot of changes that rub people the wrong way. i find it impossible to recommend 8 without a laundry lists of but's.

Then again, please explain to me this. PC sales were already slumping long before windows 8 came out when 7 was the only option. How does it make sense that had MS come out with windows 7 2nd edition that people would abandon their tablets and go out to buy desktops again by the masses? Explain to me how this logic works.

 

[lehnerus2000]

I'm guessing the use of the term lemon was used to insinuate lack of sales and interest, rather than technical functionality.

I felt Windows 7 was as close to perfect as MS has gotten out of the box. I was surprised at how great it was right from the outset. Windows 8 is fine, but it has a lot of changes that rub people the wrong way. i find it impossible to recommend 8 without a laundry lists of but's.

Then again, please explain to me this. PC sales were already slumping long before windows 8 came out when 7 was the only option.

Simple.
People had already invested in Microsoft's best ever OS, Windows 7.

More PCs were sold between 2009 - 2012 than between 2003 -2008.

​

How does it make sense that had MS come out with windows 7 2nd edition that people would abandon their tablets and go out to buy desktops again by the masses? Explain to me how this logic works.

"Windows 7 2nd Edition" couldn't have sold any worse than W8 has.

 

[goodintentions]

I'm guessing the use of the term lemon was used to insinuate lack of sales and interest, rather than technical functionality.

I felt Windows 7 was as close to perfect as MS has gotten out of the box. I was surprised at how great it was right from the outset. Windows 8 is fine, but it has a lot of changes that rub people the wrong way. i find it impossible to recommend 8 without a laundry lists of but's.

Then again, please explain to me this. PC sales were already slumping long before windows 8 came out when 7 was the only option.

Simple.
People had already invested in Microsoft's best ever OS, Windows 7.

More PCs were sold between 2009 - 2012 than between 2003 -2008.

View attachment 26422
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How does it make sense that had MS come out with windows 7 2nd edition that people would abandon their tablets and go out to buy desktops again by the masses? Explain to me how this logic works.

"Windows 7 2nd Edition" couldn't have sold any worse than W8 has.

Then you admit that the slump in PC sales has more to do with people buying more mobile devices than people hating 8.

 

[DavidY]

I just took a screenshot of my desktop just now. Since you guys are so insistent on making it sound like the desktop environment is dead on 8, can you please tell me if I've been imagining my work environment all this time or not?

Yeah, but try doing that when Microsoft rewrite Visual Studio/ Word/ Excel etc. as single screen Metro apps.

Of course they'd be mad to do this (until Metro is made into a usable UI), but since the Desktop is presented as a "legacy" environment, presumably the official line is that they'll do exactly that.

Otherwise why would other software writers create Metro apps, which Microsoft presumably desperately want them to do?

 

[Vertex]

Then you admit that the slump in PC sales has more to do with people buying more mobile devices than people hating 8.

I agree that tablets and mobile devices have far more to do with declining PC sales than Windows 8 ever had. But a huge factor for the slump on PC sales was because many people and corporations ALREADY have PCs so you can't really expect PC sales to keep going up anyway. Windows 8 has mixed reviews, some people love it, some people "h8" it.

Part of the reason why Windows 7 got better reception was because it was a cure to the Vista disaster and it was a success. Definitely a huge improvement from Vista and XP. Its a real "desktop" OS. It had the bandwagon effect that many were considering it was great so people were more confident on buying new computers installed with it and tablets were much much less popular at that time. In that case, 4 years later, many still do not see a need to replace Windows 7, hence the not so high reception of Windows 8. There is no denying that the Metro interface alienated a number of people and combine that with other things stripped away from Windows 8, this became a target for critics like some of us here, also adding to the reason why a huge number of individuals will stick with 7 or corporations to stick to 7 or XP.

But had M$ designed Windows 8 better for the likes of most people/ corporations, then it would have gotten a better reception, less critics and corporations still on XP that would skip Windows 7 and upgrade to 8 instead which "could" have made a change on the PC or OS license sales than it is now. Windows 8 just failed to deliver the wow factor that was not on its predecessor.

About your computing preferences, we all know we don't have the same likes but many of here here tested/owned a copy of the Windows 8 previews and 8.1 but was rather upset that in spite of this new 8.1 upgrade, nothing besides the boot to Desktop and the bogus Start button was added. In fact WEI and the native disc imaging utility were gone on the 8.1 preview. Some of us worry that the future could be more of this stripping away parts of the traditional Desktop environment and further reliance on the cloud services. Its optional for now but we can't say for sure until when.

Windows 7's support will be there until 2020, still a long time but people will be more confident to let go when an OS better than 8.x is available and many would have been driven to get over with "h8" already.

But don't worry, Windows 8 machines are still being sold everyday around the world on this very moment. Its just up to them whether they would love it or "h8" it.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
There are some cars out there that would be an insult to the name Lemon to call them that -- probably the Nr ONE bad car of all time was the old East German Trabant which had a lawnmower size two stroke engine, no fuel pump (was gravity fed), gushed volumes of blue / black smoke depending on the prevailing weather and was made out of PLASTIC. To add insult to injury the citizens of that now fortunately defunct regime had to wait over 12 YEARS (no typo over 12 YEARS) for one of these things that would have you arrested instantly for causing pollution in almost any city today !!.

It's not the stability of Windows 8 / 8.1 that is the issue -- I think Ms just failed to realize how many businesses and applications still very definitely require a proper desktop OS -- and has been repeated ad Nauseam on these Forums the Mobile phone W8 type of interface just won't cut it for those type of jobs.

Anyway here's screenshot of the Trabant.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[lehnerus2000]

"Windows 7 2nd Edition" couldn't have sold any worse than W8 has.

Then you admit that the slump in PC sales has more to do with people buying more mobile devices than people hating 8.

Your first point can be proven objectively (i.e. more people are buying phones and tablets, than desktops and/or laptops).

Your second point is subjectively and therefore unprovable.
However, if people hate W8 they are unlikely to buy it.
Since sales are dismal, we can hypothesise that people don't love W8 (or at least not enough to pay for it, maybe it is being pirated en masse).

That said, I think it is unfair to say W8 caused sales to drop.
IMO, it would be fair to say that W8 did not boost desktop and laptop sales.

 

[jimbo45]

"Windows 7 2nd Edition" couldn't have sold any worse than W8 has.

Then you admit that the slump in PC sales has more to do with people buying more mobile devices than people hating 8.

Your first point can be proven objectively (i.e. more people are buying phones and tablets, than desktops and/or laptops).

Your second point is subjectively and therefore unprovable.
However, if people hate W8 they are unlikely to buy it.
Since sales are dismal, we can hypothesise that people don't love W8 (or at least not enough to pay for it, maybe it is being pirated en masse).

That said, I think it is unfair to say W8 caused sales to drop.
IMO, it would be fair to say that W8 did not boost desktop and laptop sales.

Hi there
That logic has about the same validity in saying that in spite of INCREASING sales of Camper Wagons and "Winnebago" type vehicles the sales of Solar Powered Can openers hasn't risen at all -- and we all know how owners of these types of vehicles use every excuse in the book to show how independent they are from relying on anybody else for their supplies.

Perhaps the drop in sales of Solar Powered Can openers might have something to do with the fact that more people are eating fresh fruit and veg and of course salads these days than relying on "Canned food" so the need for "canned food" is far less (and most canned food I've seen these days has a sort of pull open ring on it like opening a can of beer.

It's always possible to provide some sort of link between an event and its cause - but too often these are totally incorrect.

Windows 8 really had NOTHING to do with the number of PC sales -- people who HAVE computers don't need new one's at the moment and often youngsters (new in the market) will buy a tablet and smartphone long before they even THINK of buying a computer - and for many of them those devices are all they need. It's just technological evolution --I mean you don't wander unto a Police Station these days (except in Iceland !!!!) and expect to see the arresting office typing out the Charge / Incident sheet using a typewriter !!!. Perhaps that's probably because like mosty places these days the Police have no money and there's only enough Jail space in the whole country for about 25 people !!! - They have to Lease rooms at a Hyatt Regency Hotel if there's any more need !!.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
That logic has about the same validity in saying that in spite of INCREASING sales of Camper Wagons and "Winnebago" type vehicles the sales of Solar Powered Can openers hasn't risen at all -- and we all know how owners of these types of vehicles use every excuse in the book to show how independent they are from relying on anybody else for their supplies.

Perhaps the drop in sales of Solar Powered Can openers might have something to do with the fact that more people are eating fresh fruit and veg and of course salads these days than relying on "Canned food" so the need for "canned food" is far less (and most canned food I've seen these days has a sort of pull open ring on it like opening a can of beer).

It's always possible to provide some sort of link between an event and its cause - but too often these are totally incorrect.

Windows 8 really had NOTHING to do with the number of PC sales -- people who HAVE computers don't need new one's at the moment and often youngsters (new in the market) will buy a tablet and smartphone long before they even THINK of buying a computer - and for many of them those devices are all they need. It's just technological evolution --I mean you don't wander unto a Police Station these days (except in Iceland !!!!) and expect to see the arresting office typing out the Charge / Incident sheet using a typewriter !!!. Perhaps here it's probably because like most places these days the Police have no money and there's only enough Jail space in the whole country for about 25 people !!! - They have to Lease rooms at a 4-Star luxury Hotel if there's any more need !!.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[HerrKaLeun]

i think people don't know what "lemon" means. It is if one or few of the products have flaws. for example you can buy a perfectly fine car brand (enter your brand of choice), but that one car that was assembled Monday morning by a drunk worker has flaws. for that there are lemon laws allowing the consumer to return it.

Lemon doesn't apply when all the products would be faulty by design.

so unless you can show that one W8 version has an error, while the majority don't, it is not a "lemon".

Ford Edsel is a good example of not being a lemon (per lemon law), since all of them were bad.

 

[chev65]

It's not a lemon. It's just a drastic change from what the masses have come to know and love. Microsoft, like a mad scientist messed with the formula, and the masses didn't like the new formula.

I know English is my 2nd language, not 1st. But I could have sworn the writer of post #2 specifically said 8 is a lemon.

Yeah, I'm a jerk for calling out tea-party rhetoric. So, you guys can either defend him and give me specifics as to why 8 is a lemon or change the way you criticize 8 and stop using tea rhetoric to portray 8 as the cause of all evil.

I do agree with the jerk part but only because you choose to include some negative tea party political slang in your statement.

References to political parties and such are not allowed here and how you managed to throw a punch at the tea party because someone called Windows 8 a lemon is beyond me.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
Agreed -- we all have our own views and there are plenty of other places to express either agreement with or hostility to our "so called" representatives.

I would though argue for allowing some limited exceptions here -- such as the State (of whatever jurisdiction you live in) Blocking IP addresses / sites / censoring the Internet / access to private emails etc which concern everybody these days when we far to easily glibly accept "National Security" or "Potential Terrorism" for excuses into whittling away hard won and fought for individual rights.

We all know that these rights once ceded to say the to say Police etc on a "Temporary" basis rarely get removed and if they do it often takes generations to actually get the restrictions revoked.

I would also say it's up to PRIVATE organisations like Ms and Google to name but two to say to your government --"I don't care what you say -- this is OUR (and our customers) data --if you want to collect statistics on people it's up to YOUR OWN agencies to to the job for you. If the CIA aren't up to the job then fire them -- but don't expect Ms to do the dirty work for you -- and the top executives at Ms and google should also be made aware of the fact that they are PRIVATE organisations who people have entrusted to keep data SECURE and NOT to supply it out to 3rd parties.

I'm not very religious but I have to admire some of the old Catholic Priests who would undergo all sorts of Torture and other horrific things rather than break their silence over what they had heard in the privacy of the Catholic Confessional.

Makes some of the larger organisations who have been supplying data to people like the NSA Willingly an absolute disgrace.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[CountMike]

As far as I can remember, in Canada, during '80s, the brought a so called "lemon low" that specified that any product that does not meet advertised expectations, built in or acquired thru normal use is subject to it. Ford Edsel, although now praised by collectors was certainly born a lemon as there was so many returned and most of them scraped without ever leaving factory. I think it was brought by inability of satisfactory repairs to a lot of Pontiac Astra or something like that, so only way to get a half decent one was to get a new one or to get reimbursed in full. As a low could not be brought just for one case it was expanded to all products.

 

[goodintentions]

It's not a lemon. It's just a drastic change from what the masses have come to know and love. Microsoft, like a mad scientist messed with the formula, and the masses didn't like the new formula.

I know English is my 2nd language, not 1st. But I could have sworn the writer of post #2 specifically said 8 is a lemon.

Yeah, I'm a jerk for calling out tea-party rhetoric. So, you guys can either defend him and give me specifics as to why 8 is a lemon or change the way you criticize 8 and stop using tea rhetoric to portray 8 as the cause of all evil.

I do agree with the jerk part but only because you choose to include some negative tea party political slang in your statement.

References to political parties and such are not allowed here and how you managed to throw a punch at the tea party because someone called Windows 8 a lemon is beyond me.

I think I've made it quite clear that when I say tea party rhetoric I wasn't referring to a political party or a political statement. Unless you are willing to admit that what these folks said is a valid political statement.



So, are you saying these folks are a valid political party and their statements are valid political statements?

I say "NO". So, when I say your statement is tea party rhetoric, I'm referring to the over-exaggerated doomsday rhetoric to describe something.

I was driving home from work yesterday and there was an accident on the highway so the highway I used was backed up for like 10 miles. A tea party rhetoric to describe the situation would be "the engineer who designed the highway I was using was clearly an idiot who didn't know how to design anything because he didn't account for a major crash in the middle of the highway. He probably cheated on every test he ever had in college anyway."

That would be a tea party rhetoric. It's got nothing to do with politics. But it is tea party rhetoric nonetheless.

Look at all the doomsday rhetoric about windows 8 on here. How are those different than the folks holding up those signs in the picture above?

 

[legacy7955]

Look at all the doomsday rhetoric about windows 8 on here. How are those different than the folks holding up those signs in the picture above?

Well maybe those people are right.

Windows 8 IS a failure. The public is NOT buying it. People have rejected Metro en mass.

M$ is RUSHING an previously UNSCHEDULED Windows 8.1 to market to stop the blood letting .

Oh, and the grass roots Tea Party still exists. It was a back to basics pro Constitution party.

the original group which is now an extension of the Republican party, was taken over by pro Israeli interests headed by the Koch brothers.

The two entities have NOTHING in common, except the name.

 

[HerrKaLeun]

As far as I can remember, in Canada, during '80s, the brought a so called "lemon low" that specified that any product that does not meet advertised expectations, built in or acquired thru normal use is subject to it. Ford Edsel, although now praised by collectors was certainly born a lemon as there was so many returned and most of them scraped without ever leaving factory. I think it was brought by inability of satisfactory repairs to a lot of Pontiac Astra or something like that, so only way to get a half decent one was to get a new one or to get reimbursed in full. As a low could not be brought just for one case it was expanded to all products.

So what is the advertised expectation in W8 that is not met? MS didn't claim to have a fully functional Start button and always was forthcoming about the emphasis on Metro/touch. Many people may not like that, but it was advertised for what it actually is. It woudl be a lemon if it woudl crash all the time, or would be less secure than W7... but that isn't the complaint people have.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Huh?

That logic has about the same validity in saying that in spite of INCREASING sales of Camper Wagons and "Winnebago" type vehicles the sales of Solar Powered Can openers hasn't risen at all -- and we all know how owners of these types of vehicles use every excuse in the book to show how independent they are from relying on anybody else for their supplies.

So you travel across the countryside in a "Solar Powered Can Opener" and open cans using a "Camper Wagon"?

The trouble with your "Camper Wagons vs Solar Powered Can Openers" analogy, is the two things have completely unrelated functions.

People can access the Internet via desktops/laptops, phones and tablets (i.e. these devices have overlapping functionality).

The number of people accessing the Internet via:

• Mobile devices is increasing
• Desktops/laptops is static or declining

Sales of:

• Mobile devices are increasing
• Desktops/laptops are declining

According to you, these two things are completely unrelated?

W8 has not arrested the decline in desktop sales.

That said, I think it is unfair to say W8 caused sales to drop.
IMO, it would be fair to say that W8 did not boost desktop and laptop sales.

 

[XweAponX]

It's not a lemon. It's just a drastic change from what the masses have come to know and love. Microsoft, like a mad scientist messed with the formula, and the masses didn't like the new formula.

I know English is my 2nd language, not 1st. But I could have sworn the writer of post #2 specifically said 8 is a lemon.

Yeah, I'm a jerk for calling out tea-party rhetoric. So, you guys can either defend him and give me specifics as to why 8 is a lemon or change the way you criticize 8 and stop using tea rhetoric to portray 8 as the cause of all evil.

Hahaha! Tea Farty Rhetoric? Indeed! Hahaha! Anyway I don't think 8 is a lemon, not like Vistpoo was. VistShiite WAS a lemon. Windows 8 is FAR from lemon, but people still will not even consider it. Despite the Start Screen which frightens people away in droves, it is a fine fast OS, and so far runs every Windows XP Program I have shoved at it. I was even able to install the drivers for an old Sony MPEG capture card, using compatibility mode, once the drivers went it, the card lit up.

8 is more backward compatible with old systems than 7 is, all ya gotta do is cram 2 GB of Ram into the old machine. The only thing I have no use for is the Start Screen and tile apps, and I don't think a system that is all-tile will ever replace a desktop machine, MAC or PC. People like to have control over their environment, and the Start Screen gives limited options as far as customization and even more limitations for productivity. But the Desktop half of this frankenstein OS is better than 7.

Also, they shoved 8.1 at us and did not accommodate the main complaint. But Classic Shell still fixes this mishap, it most gloriously covers up the worthless 8.1 Start button and replaces it with a usable Program Menu, it's not as good as Start 8's but it is more than usable.

I don't think I'll install 8.1 at all, cos once I figured out how 8 works, I'm used to it now, and 8.1 is not a sufficient replacement like 7 was for VistPoo users.