It's officially CONFIRMED?Default boot directly to desktop

[SIW2]

Let's try that again.

Goodintentions.
There's no data on it. All we have are a few loud mouths that don't like metro

If there is no data - how do you know there are only a few who don't like metro.?

On what are you basing your claim of "a few" ?

How do you know it is not a large number?

Are you basing your claim of "a few" on what you think your friends think.

Or

Are you saying you have no idea how many don't like metro, but you think only a few of those actually vocalise it?

 

[goodintentions]

If there is no data - how do you know there are only a few who don't like metro.?

Again, I didn't say that at all. Let me repeat. There are technically data on this. Not very reliable, though. The unreliable data I'm speaking of are you guys, the few and loud.

I'm basing my claim of "a few" by the following reasons which I've already said. But since you only chose to quote one-half of one sentence from my previous post, let me try again. See if it shows this time.

(1) We know for a fact that for any product at all when people are happy or neutral with their satisfaction level then they don't say anything at all. The slightly unsatisfied people also tend not to say anything. It's the very unsatisfied people who will go online and blaster their unsatisfaction all over the place. Many of these unsatisfied souls often exaggerate what they are unsatisfied with.

(2) I have not met one person who are as unhappy as you guys with windows 8. Not one. Almost all are indifferent with the UI changes.

(3) Windows 8 didn't cause the PC sales slump. PC sales took a nose dive long before windows 8 came onto the scene. What's causing the PC slump is the ever expanding smartphone and tablet market. People like to blame windows 8 because it's got a face on it.

(4) Why aren't enterprises upgrading to windows 8? Because windows 7 is more than adequate for enterprises. Techies love the idea that companies like to stay with the latest and greatest. But the reality is money talks. Businesses just haven't found good enough reasons to upgrade to 8 yet. In our test lab, all the machines still run on windows xp. Does this mean we think vista or 7 are crap? Of course not. There's just never a need for upgrade in those systems.

So, with the lack of reliable data, what are we basing our conclusions on? Well, all of these are just opinions, so I say we base our conclusions on the default.

What's the default? That the proven loud mouths dictate what everybody else thinks?

I know you're not willing to admit this, but look at all the anti-8 posts. These are extreme exaggerated, caricatured versions of what a real unsatisfied customer would think. You want me to believe these exaggerated, caricatured versions that I haven't been able to find in real life anyone that even comes close to the level of resentment of windows 8 that I see on here. Almost everyone I've met in real life that has 8 are indifferent about the changes. Why? Because almost all people are tech illiterate. A few are unhappy with some things and a few are happy with some things. But I've not met a single person who are as hung up about the start button as you guys are.

Don't put me in the pro-8 crowd just yet. There are threads and posts by moi throughout the forum where I'm unsatisfied with certain aspects of 8.

That said, I'm sorry, but it's hard for me to believe the level of resentment for 8 that I see on here is anything more than exaggerated, sensationalized, and caricatured versions of real life unsatisfaction.

Until we get some reliable data on what most people think of 8, I maintain that you guys aren't really serious about your resentment of something as insignificant as a damn start button.

 

[goodintentions]

Haha, funny stuff there.

Still do not know a person other than myself using w8 personally. Not a single clan member will go near it, the few that did months ago tossed it after a day or two and none of them have any intention of trying any other version of w8, blue, 8.1 or whatever foolishness MS comes up with next.

And when you talk about loud mouths please go get a mirror and have a good look dude.

Glad you like your phone interface on a pc, me not so much. If I had to use metro I would toss w8 in a second.

See, this is the mentality I've been talking about. I believe that most people are somewhere in the middle while a few are on the far fringes of either side.

Just because I don't accept that a few loud mouth negative reactionaries represent the majority doesn't mean I love 8. Just because something is not black doesn't mean it's white. Why must I either love or hate the new UI?

 

[goodintentions]

Hi there
The Start button IMO is an irrelevance UNLESS the USER can link it to an application the USER wants to run such as open a custom toolbar. What I (and zillions of others I suspect too) need fixed is the INSTALL procedure -- when you install a classic large windows desktop application (for example the complete Visual Studio suite) every snivelling .EXE file creates its own tile which leaves a real mess -- especially as these tiles could be ANYWHERE on the start screen - not necessarily located with the main application. It's a huge DOGS DINNER of a mess.

Also endless scrolling is really hideous -- even on a mobile phone I'm beginning to find this type of interface incredibly annoying -- and remember it's quite easy to install several HUNDRED apps on the modern smart phones.

At least on W8 there's a quick launch task bar -. I'd love to lock up the person who dreamed up this vile interface into a room with a modern mobile phone where he / she would have to spend an entire week using the phone 12 times an hour - but having to scroll the screen 30 times before using ANY application !!!.

Cheers
jimbo

I agree with you that endless scrolling is annoying and hideous. That's why I have may be 2 pages of apps I most often use. And even then, most of the time, I launch them via the search function.

I don't think the intent of the start screen is for you to have endless scrolling looking for the app that you want. Just like how the desktop wasn't really meant to be completely filled up with icons and files. And yet, I've found dozens of PC's where people have completely filled the desktop up with icons, folders, and files.

What I'm trying to say is your argument is moot because this exact same argument could be applied to the desktop. If you don't maintain your desktop, it will become cluttered just like if you don't maintain your start screen it will become cluttered. Actually, the argument can be used for anything/everything in life, really. If you don't maintain your room, you'll be amazed how fast stuff (mostly junk) can build up.

Added by edit.

This is why I ditched the iphone for android. On android, I can put the apps I use most often on the homescreen. On the iphone, everything is there all the time. It's like putting all your shoes out on display all the time even though you only use a couple pairs most of the time.

 

[legacy7955]

Just because I don't accept that a few loud mouth negative reactionaries represent the majority doesn't mean I love 8. Just because something is not black doesn't mean it's white. Why must I either love or hate the new UI?

If you like the Window 8 and Metro good for you, I and others here certainly aren't arguing with how you experience the product. Yet, you seem to have an intensely personal grudge against those which disagree with you. If you haven't noticed it yourself.

Even if there is NO hard data per se, if you look at folks here that tend to like 8, their friends and family members seem to like it much less, or not at all. Add to that the enterprise community and you have a much better argument..In article after article businesses are saying NO to 8. Of course you could dismiss the tech editors at the various media outlets but then again they do hold considerable sway with the public, and also seem to echo what ordinary people on this forum and the general public have said about Windows 8.

The proof in the pudding is that MS IS changing things, that is proof enough. If it were true that only a handful of "geeks" were complaining they certainly would NOT have made the changes and introduced 8.1 so quickly after 8.

I can only hope that the uh, stridency that some here display regarding our dislike of 8 is NOT the same that fills the campus of MS, but I believe it might very well be.

 

[Phone Man]

Hi there
The Start button IMO is an irrelevance UNLESS the USER can link it to an application the USER wants to run such as open a custom toolbar. What I (and zillions of others I suspect too) need fixed is the INSTALL procedure -- when you install a classic large windows desktop application (for example the complete Visual Studio suite) every snivelling .EXE file creates its own tile which leaves a real mess -- especially as these tiles could be ANYWHERE on the start screen - not necessarily located with the main application. It's a huge DOGS DINNER of a mess.

Also endless scrolling is really hideous -- even on a mobile phone I'm beginning to find this type of interface incredibly annoying -- and remember it's quite easy to install several HUNDRED apps on the modern smart phones.

At least on W8 there's a quick launch task bar -. I'd love to lock up the person who dreamed up this vile interface into a room with a modern mobile phone where he / she would have to spend an entire week using the phone 12 times an hour - but having to scroll the screen 30 times before using ANY application !!!.

Cheers
jimbo

Maybe some hope in 8.1 but we will see on June 26 with the preview.

A quote from a Windows Blog on May 30.

Continuing the Windows 8 vision with Windows 8.1

You can view all apps just by swiping from the bottom to view all apps, and we’ve added the ability to filter your apps by name, date installed, most used, or by category. You want the Start screen to be about all the things you love. So when you install a new app from the Windows Store, we no longer put that app on your Start screen. Instead, you’ll find these apps under apps view as mentioned above and marked as “new” where you can choose to pin the apps you want to your Start screen.

Don't know if this will work for PC programs being installed but hopefully it will be.

Jim

 

[goodintentions]

Just because I don't accept that a few loud mouth negative reactionaries represent the majority doesn't mean I love 8. Just because something is not black doesn't mean it's white. Why must I either love or hate the new UI?

If you like the Window 8 and Metro good for you, I and others here certainly aren't arguing with how you experience the product. Yet, you seem to have an intensely personal grudge against those which disagree with you. If you haven't noticed it yourself.

How many times do I have to say this? I don't like the metro tiles. I've made several threads discussing about the limits of the tiles.

Even if there is NO hard data per se, if you look at folks here that tend to like 8, their friends and family members seem to like it much less, or not at all. Add to that the enterprise community and you have a much better argument..In article after article businesses are saying NO to 8. Of course you could dismiss the tech editors at the various media outlets but then again they do hold considerable sway with the public, and also seem to echo what ordinary people on this forum and the general public have said about Windows 8.

And my point has always been that the folks that really like and the folks that really don't like are few and far in between. Most people don't care either way.

The proof in the pudding is that MS IS changing things, that is proof enough. If it were true that only a handful of "geeks" were complaining they certainly would NOT have made the changes and introduced 8.1 so quickly after 8.

We have no idea if they are changing things because of demands or because this has all been planned out.

 

[legacy7955]

But you generally DO like Windows 8 overall? Or not?

And my point has always been that the folks that really like and the folks that really don't like are few and far in between. Most people don't care either way.

From what I have seen through family and friends, internet chatter, it seems like there are plenty of general users that clearly DO NOT like Windows 8 as it is.

We have no idea if they are changing things because of demands or because this has all been planned out.

But wait even the horses mouth (MS) said they were making these changes because of customer complains and demands. LOL

 

[goodintentions]

But you generally DO like Windows 8 overall? Or not?

In general terms, I my level of satisfaction is about the same as windows 7.

Down to specific things, there are aspects that I like better than 7 and there are aspects that I like less than 7. I'm one of those that are somewhere in between.

It's like debates in politics. Hardliners usually only see you as either a heartless capitalist ******* or a militant atheist communist. And yet we know for a fact that most people are moderates.

I think we're seeing a similar phenomenon here.

But wait even the horses mouth (MS) said they were making these changes because of customer complains and demands. LOL

Knowing how PR departments work, this is really up for grabs. In today's world of business, it's better to look guilty than incompetent.

Rather than say these changes have been in the works for a while, it just sounds better by saying "we responded to customer demands..."

Whether these are the honest truth or not we may never know. Just remember that MS has spent billions in research and development. I believe they have adequate data to tell them what the typical user would like or hate.

Between the PR and business secrecies, there's no way to tell what's on their minds.

You may have family and friends that are dislike win8 enough, but how much of it is from you? I've found that the tech illiterate will side with whomever they think is more tech savvy than they are.

Internet chatter I've already explained why I don't take them seriously.

 

[SIW2]

Marketing is more of an art than science. A product manager needs to understand the customers wants and needs. He needs to understand how they are likely to react to a given stimulus. He needs to have his finger on the pulse. He is looking for indications, trends and responding to feedback. If you sell thousands of units and only two customers write in to say they cut their finger on the bottom of the unit - it would be foolish to ignore them on the basis it is a tiny percentage.

One of the things MS is doing is monitoring the forums and blogs to get a feel for what the response is.

If you don't know about marketing ( and even for those who do ), it is wise to listen to those who are pros in the field.

 

[goodintentions]

Marketing is more of an art than science. A product manager needs to understand the customers wants and needs. He needs to understand how they are likely to react to a given stimulus. He needs to have his finger on the pulse. He is looking for indications, trends and responding to feedback. If you sell thousands of units and only two customers write in to say they cut their finger on the bottom of the unit - it would be foolish to ignore them on the basis it is a tiny percentage.

One of the things MS is doing is monitoring the forums and blogs to get a feel for what the response is.

If you don't know about marketing ( and even for those who do ), it is wise to listen to those who are pros in the field.

Again, you misunderstand me.

I'm not saying MS shouldn't listen to you guys. In fact, I've become convinced that MS should make all the changes that you guys insist.

I just don't believe in the notion that you guys represent most or even the majority of the people.

 

[SIW2]

You are entitled to believe or disbelieve anything you choose.

 

[goodintentions]

You are entitled to believe or disbelieve anything you choose.

See? You're beginning to understand my stance, which is a good thing. No more caricaturized notions of each other's beliefs.

 

[SIW2]

I do not agree with most of what you have you said.

It is a free world. You can believe what you want.

I have no doubt 8 was partly responsible for the big drop in pc sales.

 

[goodintentions]

I do not agree with most of what you have you said.

Can you be more specific? More on this later.

I have no doubt 8 was partly responsible for the big drop in pc sales.

See, your last sentence is deceiving. Even if there's nothing wrong with 8 at all other than it failing to generate enthusiasm enough for a spike in sales, your statement would still be true. It's a universal truth statement. Can't go wrong with being vague.

Going back to what you think I've said, most of what I've pointed out are facts. That's why I wanted to get some specifics from you of what you disagree with.

 

[amoled]

So simple.

Decor8 - Personalize the Windows® 8 Start screen with Decor8™!

 

[legacy7955]

I agree that although the PC sales were stagnating of late, the addition of
Windows 8 has worsened the sales of them. It's no coincidence.

MS if you are listening to this "loud mouth" please give the customer the option to have the start button in 8.1 send you to the traditional menu.
I appreciate the option to boot directly to desktop , now lets just acknowledge the mistakes and correct the most glaring ones with the intro of Windows 8.1

Thanks,

Your customer.

 

[SIW2]

That's optimistic.

 

[Phone Man]

The Start Menu is dead, the Start Page is here to stay with a number of tweaks.

Jim

 

[legacy7955]

The Start Menu is dead, the Start Page is here to stay with a number of tweaks.

Jim

That's what they said about default boot to desktop as well.

Things change...and of course a little humility at MS doesn't hurt either.