This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista.

[Night Hawk]

It wasn't only "little ole me" that found the 8 RP a bit "buggy"! Eventually I will get around to tossing the 8 Enterprise Developer release on a VM to have a better look at the closer to RTM while not expecting much.

For Vista that version besides late should have seen driver support already available from the OEMs since it was late! But nope! The OEMs lagged way behind the actual release with 8 now seeing the same falling behind on support. Yet MS stressed support be available for 7! And 7 has been referred to at times as the "works right out of the box" OS.

Gee what a time to be buying 7! I paid $320($319.99 without SP1 back then) and now see 7 Ultimate retail for what? $169.99! If you are looking for new and not going with 8 this is the time to find a lot of deals on 7.

 

[Tully]

Yes, like the MAPS on iPhone5!

Tully

 

[gazz9496]

7 still had it's issues at launch lets not hide behind rose tinted glasses just because it's more stable now than then, many games didn't work as well as a great deal of software compatibility issues.

graphics card and motherboard vendors are already updating drivers for use with win8, as well as already having support for win7 drivers as it is, it should be mostly fine out of the box with some teething issues as you would expect from any launch of any software product.

yes apple are getting stick for the map app in ios6 but then they clearly didn't realise how much money they were going to have to invest in such a venture, google have spent millions on their mapping software as have tomtom garmin and everyone else, perhaps apple will sue google in a few months for copying their map app...lol

but if you want to see the failure in windows 8 then you aren't seeing the positives it can bring to the computer market. the only aspect of windows 8 they got wrong from almost everyones view point is the metro ui.

now not everyone feels the same which is fine, i personally don't mind it having been using win 8 since it's first beta granted it took some getting use to but now i'm kinda meh about the whole debate of metro, i've given up avoiding it and earlier this year started looking for gesture control methods over touch related products due to the way my office is setup.

I recall having a similar feeling towards the r35 skyline, i knew it was a great car but i didn't quiet like it, after a while it really grew on me and i decided it was really rather nice to look at, I gave it a chance and decided win8 should be given the same chance.

the thing is many storage companies are eager to break the 4-5tb hdd size and can if they want to many already have products that can but no OS that can use it, here comes windows 8 with a maximum storage support for several hundred TB, err i know 7 supports up to 3tb on a single drive and can support multiple drives doing the same thing, but that wasn't my point.

there is a lot of hardware support built into 8 that isn't currently available which may give many a reason to upgrade when the time comes.

 

[McRuff]

the thing is many storage companies are eager to break the 4-5tb hdd size and can if they want to many already have products that can but no OS that can use it, here comes windows 8 with a maximum storage support for several hundred TB, err i know 7 supports up to 3tb on a single drive and can support multiple drives doing the same thing, but that wasn't my point.

Even XP-64 can address 256TB partitions

NTFS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[phailyoor]

I'm just not convinced that people would switch from an easy to use iPad to an annoying tablet Os that requires you to login and ask so many annoying questions when you 1st sign in.

Interesting that you put it that way. Come to think of it, I generally pick up my iPad after I'm done working on one of my PC's. I like to pick it up, select a book [or game, or whatever] and just use it. I don't use it like I use a PC because it ain't one. I don't think I'd care for a PC experience on a tablet. Metro seems to be a forced-fit. I won't be among those purchasing a Surface - my iPad is fine thank you.

-Max

Well, having a tablet that FORCES you to go into desktop mode to use the full functionality is pretty stupid IMO. They should have at least finished the tablet mode.

 

[Night Hawk]

I'll be looking for a Tablet here as a gift for someone who is presently without internet service or a working phone line even where a 7 desktop had been connected by dial-up. Portablility and getting you out of a tight spot is what they are good for.

The embedded OS is always far less functional then the desktop equivalent. Looking at a Smart Book with the embedded 7 on it is looking through a magnifying glass at a miniturized OS with less then half the functionality of the typical desktop installation. Now imagine what 8 would be like with even half of what the embedded 7 has to offer? Touch this, touch that, and then how do you...

 

[gazz9496]

the thing is many storage companies are eager to break the 4-5tb hdd size and can if they want to many already have products that can but no OS that can use it, here comes windows 8 with a maximum storage support for several hundred TB, err i know 7 supports up to 3tb on a single drive and can support multiple drives doing the same thing, but that wasn't my point.

Even XP-64 can address 256TB partitions

NTFS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

thats interesting....so why do they hold back i wonder? if i recall windows 7 64 can't utilise anything over 2tb on a basic mbr partition and has to be installed onto a gpt partition and have supporting hardware to do so.

not so simple now is it just to call that out, i didn't say windows couldn't support more either but they have held back due to the rather slow uptake of new computers due to so many being stuck on xp and not the shocking xp64 at that either which was worse than any os ever.

do you really think the only reason we see 3tb max drives on the market is anything remotely linked to actual research and development limitations of storage solutions? it's more in line with slow up take of efi and slow uptake of gpt as a newer standard and the dreaded xp still lurking around on too many computers to make it worth while to have high market saturation and warrant the outlay in development and manufacturing.

xp 64 can address several exabytes not terabytes, just the same as win7 64 and win 8 64, there are other reasons it's reduced to 256TB.

 

[Night Hawk]

To add something here about the capacities presently seen Seagate is working on a new coating for the platters to boost the potentials from the Hitachi 4-5tb max presently seen out upto the 20-60tb range. The new drives will obviously catch a good sized retail pricing at first but will be soon be followed by other drive manufacturers in expanding storage capacities.

How OSs address the new drive capacities will be something previously faced by XP with the old version's initial 137gb barrier. I suspect once the drives are actually out on the market MS as well as other OSs will be facing the present limitations in future developments as time goes on.

 

[Dellius]

Windows 8 is great, except for several things.

1. Touch doesn't belong on the desktop.
2. I don't want my Desktop to feel like a trashy tablet.
3. I want the OS delivering graphics appropriate for a powerful PC, not some underpowered piece of junk.

 

[Night Hawk]

I can agree with part of each of those.

1-Touchscreen option for Desktop not mandated gui
2-Layout for the "Modern" or whatever leaves something to be desired
3-For gamers improved performance lost to awkward user interface to some extent

The loss of the Start menu and normal shutdown optoin replaced by a seek and find mission for hidden popup toolbars leaves much to be desired especially for desktop productivity as well as how things have been divided up and scattered around.

Pinning things to the Start screen defeats the purpose of having a taskbar where you would generally pin things in 7. That replaced the old Quick Launch bar in the previous versions that you could still have visible while at the actual desktop rather then the tedious back and forth and back and forth and .. additional steps required for each new task.

Just be glad MS has the resources to recover from the end result when 8 doesn't take well with the majority of desktop users. I think 8 will turn out to be a slow seller in the long run.

 

[jimbo45]

the thing is many storage companies are eager to break the 4-5tb hdd size and can if they want to many already have products that can but no OS that can use it, here comes windows 8 with a maximum storage support for several hundred TB, err i know 7 supports up to 3tb on a single drive and can support multiple drives doing the same thing, but that wasn't my point.

Even XP-64 can address 256TB partitions

NTFS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

thats interesting....so why do they hold back i wonder? if i recall windows 7 64 can't utilise anything over 2tb on a basic mbr partition and has to be installed onto a gpt partition and have supporting hardware to do so.

not so simple now is it just to call that out, i didn't say windows couldn't support more either but they have held back due to the rather slow uptake of new computers due to so many being stuck on xp and not the shocking xp64 at that either which was worse than any os ever.

do you really think the only reason we see 3tb max drives on the market is anything remotely linked to actual research and development limitations of storage solutions? it's more in line with slow up take of efi and slow uptake of gpt as a newer standard and the dreaded xp still lurking around on too many computers to make it worth while to have high market saturation and warrant the outlay in development and manufacturing.

xp 64 can address several exabytes not terabytes, just the same as win7 64 and win 8 64, there are other reasons it's reduced to 256TB.

Hi there
the problem isn't with the "File system" of the actual hardware device - but on how the OS can handle it.

At very large capacities you definitely need far better indexing / searching algorithms as well as obviously some low level programming to integrate with the Disk controller.

As most people know -- and it's been repeated here on this very Forum that the biggest hindrance to your computers performance (always assuming there is enough RAM in the system - which these days there should always be a minimum of 4GB even on the tiniest system) is Disk performance.

People who have fitted SSD's on even modest equipment are usually surprised by the DRAMATIC (and it usually is dramatic) improvement gain.

So if the file and data retrieval method isn't decently optimized for these large model disk drives then you are totally hosed up.

There are limitations even in the NTFS file system in MBR mode about the number of file entries you can store in a directory -- not in the amount of data itself.

Users of the newer 3 and 4 TB drives available will sometimes be surprised still that in MBR mode you will need to keep partitions to 2 TB or less each.

This is where the OS will either need a new file system or a drastic re-write of the file / data I/O parts of the windows kernel.

Unix / Linux systems don't have this problem due to the "Tree Nature" of most of the current Linux file systems --I think ext3 is currently the most popular.

Finally XP-64 was actually a GREAT OS -- it was based on probably is still one of the best OSD'es Ms ever did and that was windows 2003 server -- really good as a desktop OS too !!! --still use it daily on a normal home desktop -- Windows 2003 server - even the 32 bit models can support in some cases up to 64 GB RAM !!!

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Kat]

Here's my take...feel free to disagree.

When I first installed the DP, I thought 'Shyt, they're KIDDING! I can't use this'.

Full of bugs and incompatibilities. Got rid of it, straight away.

The CP was good, once I'd gotten used to it, and it is STILL my preferred version. It's been
rock-solid for months on my AS5735, a 2gig dual core with 3 g RAM and Intel GFX).

Had an absolute COW of a time getting either version of the RP to work, but they were OK once I did.

As for the RTM, apart from the fact that it looks like a pig without lipstick, it's great.

Yep! I've come almost full-circle.

Get past the (minor) irritation of the Start screen, and it's like Windows 7 with a Turbo.




My bet......

Initial take-up will be quite slow.

But once people realise that the 'old' windows is still there, but better, sales will start to take off.

It's not rubbish, and it's not a fail.

Nor is it a 'Vista 2', an 'ME 2' or a 'BOB 2'.

But it IS different.

Play. Experiment. Learn.

It'll grow on you. I guarantee it, it did for me.

Actually, my only REAL worry with it is this bloody push to the cloud.

Ain't going. No way. No how. Not gonna happen.

 

[DooRules]

Nope, did not grow on me at all. Or anyone that I know of actually.

This is a W8 forum that has been going for months and months, and look at the very low participation rate. People it would seem have by and large just dismissed it.

At this point in W7 I was probably on about my 10th build or more. Used it from day 1 and never looked back. I have tried all versions of 8 and the rtm was on my system till a couple of weeks ago.

Won't buy, won't pirate, won't use it. Not supporting this ass backwards move by MS with any of my money.

The only way this will even get off the ground is from oem's putting it in their new systems, but as to people actually buying copies to replace w7, yeah, good luck with that. I think those numbers will be so dismal that MS will never let us see them.

 

[mart4494]

My bet......

Initial take-up will be quite slow.

But once people realise that the 'old' windows is still there, but better, sales will start to take off.

It's not rubbish, and it's not a fail.

Nor is it a 'Vista 2', an 'ME 2' or a 'BOB 2'.

But it IS different.

Play. Experiment. Learn.

It'll grow on you. I guarantee it, it did for me.

Actually, my only REAL worry with it is this bloody push to the cloud.

Ain't going. No way. No how. Not gonna happen.

The only problem is that your average user isn't going to play around with it and the company IT guys certainly aren't going to stick their necks on the line. I think the same goes for the 'professional' media writers - first impressions and all that.

I acquired a laptop with Vista pre-installed and my first thoughts were oh s**t - I'll replace it with XP. But I played around with it for a while, removed all the dross and after not a great deal of effort on my part it wasn't that bad after all. So I kept it and it was fine. Didn't stop Vista being hammered here there and everywhere though.

That's the bottom line, folks aren't prepared to invest time in getting the thing to work the way they want. Personally I'll keep my Win7 rig with SSD and 8gb ram. It works fine and does everything I want. That is strictly a personal view and is neither right or wrong.

I can see Eight Forums though being ultra busy once W8 is officially released.

 

[mart4494]

I think those numbers will be so dismal that MS will never let us see them.

Oh they will. I can just see Bullmar standing up and saying - ' this is the fastest selling Windows of all time'. Goodness knows where they get their figures from or should I say how they manipulate them!!! LOL

 

[Mike Lonewolf]

I'm just curious as to why Microsoft is cutting their own throat? The biggest purchaser(s) of Windows is their corporate customers (businesses). They WON'T be using fancy touchscreens in a business environment, so I see a ton of lost revenue for Microsoft out the door when said businesses decide to move from Windows 7. Secondly as I read this forum on a daily basis I can see that the consumer end of purchasers won't be buying it either, will be a Windows XP debacle and like with Windows XP, users will be staying with Windows 7.

 

[mart4494]

I'm just curious as to why Microsoft is cutting their own throat? The biggest purchaser(s) of Windows is their corporate customers (businesses). They WON'T be using fancy touchscreens in a business environment, so I see a ton of lost revenue for Microsoft out the door when said businesses decide to move from Windows 7. Secondly as I read this forum on a daily basis I can see that the consumer end of purchasers won't be buying it either, will be a Windows XP debacle and like with Windows XP, users will be staying with Windows 7.

MS live in the Redmond bubble consumed with fruit company envy. It would have been easy for them to offer a choice of UI at installation time but, and it is a big BUT, most I think would choose the classic UI. So it's force, in many cases, paid for downloaded apps and monthly subscription cloud services.

It's a go figure moment for me and many others that hang around here.

 

[Kat]

MS live in the Redmond bubble consumed with fruit company envy. It would have been easy for them to offer a choice of UI at installation time but, and it is a big BUT, most I think would choose the classic UI. So it's force, in many cases, paid for downloaded apps and monthly subscription cloud services.

It's a go figure moment for me and many others that hang around here.

And it's THAT that I hate about Win 8, not the OS itself.

Nothing at all wrong with the OS if you are prepared to spend some time learning and tweaking it.

 

[HippsieGypsie]

I'm just curious as to why Microsoft is cutting their own throat? The biggest purchaser(s) of Windows is their corporate customers (businesses). They WON'T be using fancy touchscreens in a business environment, so I see a ton of lost revenue for Microsoft out the door when said businesses decide to move from Windows 7. Secondly as I read this forum on a daily basis I can see that the consumer end of purchasers won't be buying it either, will be a Windows XP debacle and like with Windows XP, users will be staying with Windows 7.

Risk, Mike. They saw their biggest competitor, iMe Fruit Company, take the lead with iPhones and iPads. It's now richer as a corporation. What would anyone do in their situation? Sit around and watch the lead car win the race? Of course not. Anyone with a competitive spirit will come up with a plan and step on the gas, not give up.

I consider myself a newbie here. Although I've been around computers a while, this is actually my first forum. I do have a couple of friends that work IT. We talk very little about our professions. I've learned more from reading the Pros here. I don't pretend to know and can't fathom what it's like to support huge systems. But, I do know a little about business for I've owned one for a while.

Just the thought of starting in business is a big risk. Exchanging a regular paycheck for hopefully a profit that far exceeds it is a big risk. If one stays on top of things and plays their cards right, more money comes in eventually.

The game has changed drastically in computing. It's called touch. I know what responce I'll get -> Why not a choice of UI? I believe MS will get the commoners going on 8. Here -> Learn this new wave of computing. Then they will concentrate on enterprise with a plan they already have, for they know business doesn't move to a new OS straight way.

8 will not be a big seller out of the gate. It will, however, eventually be a huge seller. I'm already looking forward to 9.

I suggest to take risks, for the world would stand still if some people didn't.

 

[PaulGo]

RIM, Kodak and many other companies had dominant positionsv but were unable to understand the users needs which caused them to fail. I really don't think Microsoft is meeting the needs of a desktop user with this interface. They are just in a panic mode.