Windows 8: My complaints

dyinisis

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Windows 8: My input

I have it installed as my primary OS and have been exploring it for about a week now. Although I do like several features, I am going to be re-installing 7 because I feel limited in 8. The most frustrating aspect of 8 is the lack of simple menu choices. For instance, I can view photos in the photo app but when I want to export them, open them with another program, or really anything other than just viewing them... windows 8 limits those actions by not providing me with menu options other that four or five basic command choices. It's like having a phone OS on your PC! Even the apps available for it like the eBay app are useless because of these limited menu options, forcing you to go to the actual website to do practically anything other than buy! This format is appealing to a non-user who will enjoy the simplicity of its design. But anyone who likes having multiple options available to them will be disappointed because of the restrictive nature of its interface. The user who doesn't rely on right-clicking to explore other possible actions might actually feel more comfortable having only five or six actions available to them, but people like myself who are not intimidated by having several choices will feel like they have given up any control that they once had had over their files for a smartphone styled PC. The Internet Browser is deficient as well, the back button has moved to mid page on the left for back and right for forward, which interferes with fields on pages that happen to have them located in these areas, inadvertently causing you to switch pages when you are just trying to enter a field. This can be quite frustrating! upgrading to 8 is like taking a step backward in my opinion from 7 to XP. The search feature that made 7 so wonderful has disappeared along with the start menu, which could have at least been retained when you are in the desktop 7 mode that the system has built in. Why is there a desktop and a new start menu? And the answer is because of the new start menu not giving you the choices needed, forcing you to switch between modes to accomplish simple tasks! I am very quick to adapt to new formats, but the changes here seem to greatly limit the freedom you have in 7. The best analogy I can give is using Media center to open media files vs. using media player in windows 7. Media center is more aesthetically pleasing with the way that you open or browse files, however the functionality is severely limited making the user prefer media player. That way if I want to make a playlist of movies to watch I simply select files, right-click and select add to media player, but this ever so simple option is just not available in media center, so I can only watch one movie at a time! These little choices are important and not worth sacrificing for a display that is more elegantly simple. No, I don't think I will keep windows 8, perhaps it is better suited for a tablet. I will explore it for awhile longer to be sure, there interesting aspects to it that I do like.
 
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My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 8
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    hp m8430f
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    Core 2 Quad Q6600
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    IPIBL-LB Benecia
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    4 GB
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I've flogged Windows 8 into working the way I want it to.

It's a bloody good OS, metro notwithstanding.

This crap that you can't run it with a mouse is just rubbish.

It runs just as well without a touch-screen as Win3.1 did.

I'm running the 64-bit Enterprise RTM, and it has TWO MAJOR FLAWS.

Runs beautifully, compatibility is reasonable, BUT.......

1/..It WON'T talk to any of my openGL games. ANY of them. At all.

2/..It's as ugly as sin.


I've been running the 32-bit RC on my Acer AS5735 since its release, and
the little Acer loves it. And it does openGL.

I can't help but compare its RC to the RTM on this.

Basically it's a case of 'Nice legs, shame about the face'.

I want my transparency back. AND openGL compatibility.

Otherwise, Win 8 won't be my main OS in the foreseeable future.
 

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    Windows 8 Enterprise 64-bit (7 Ult, Vista & XP in V-Box)
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The opengl part must be an issue with your video drivers, hopefully they wil lbe fully up to snuff on release. I've run a couple of Open GL games on it and they run fine. (I should pop Blender over on it and see how that goes...)

NVidia 285 (Yeah it's old, this is my "test machine", AKA my old desktop...

"Ugly as Sin" fits IMHO :D
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7/8
You can't run metro well with a mouse. Stay in desktop as much as you can, and you'll only have to mess with the start screen, which is bearable depending on how you used the old start menu. Try running the windows 7 WDDM 1.1 drivers for OpenGL support. They work well enough, and the windows 8 drivers are still a bit flaky.
 

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  • OS
    Windows 8 RTM (Retinas taking damage...)
    CPU
    i5 2500
    Motherboard
    msi p67a-g43
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    16 GB DDR3 1333
    Graphics Card(s)
    2x Nvidia 9800 GTX+
The thing you have to realize is that Metro apps are still very immature. Yes, it may be annoying today, when Windows 8 still is not officially released, but in 6 months the landscape will changed quite a bit, with many 3rd party metro apps. Don't judge the OS based on the lack of Metro apps today, that's just silly.

Yes, you can certainly say "It's not quite ready yet" but then virtually any app you could run in Windows 7 you can still run in Windows 8. So I fail to comprehend the "I'm going back to windows 7 because Metro apps suck" argument. You don't have to use the metro apps, you can do everything exactly as you did in Windows 7.
 

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    Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
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    Logitech MX
The thing you have to realize is that Metro apps are still very immature. Yes, it may be annoying today, when Windows 8 still is not officially released, but in 6 months the landscape will changed quite a bit, with many 3rd party metro apps. Don't judge the OS based on the lack of Metro apps today, that's just silly.

Yes, you can certainly say "It's not quite ready yet" but then virtually any app you could run in Windows 7 you can still run in Windows 8. So I fail to comprehend the "I'm going back to windows 7 because Metro apps suck" argument. You don't have to use the metro apps, you can do everything exactly as you did in Windows 7.

This is true but in fact the photo app/no-rotation problem is a prime example of why Metro does not belong on the desktop.

MS designed the entire thing for tablets and phones. you don't NEED a photo rotate in a photo viewer on a tablet or phone do you? :)

you NEED one on a desktop though. MS has had plenty of time to create functional metro apps, they have purposely limited their usefulness because they are /supposed/ to be run on a phone where things like printing and rotation have no real place. They are useless on the desktop, not just because they are "new" but because they were /designed/ for "not on a desktop".

This brings up the fragmentation issues, are you designing for a desktop or a phone? The apps will NOT all work everywhere because desktop users demand SO MUCH MORE from their desktop apps than their phone apps. It really makes the entire idea seem completely silly when you see things like this.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7/8
Missing in these discussions (most of the time, it seems) is some absolutely compelling reason to make the move to Windows 8. What can I do in Windows 8 that I CANNOT do in Windows 7 (aside from "run Metro apps" - and that's not really a compelling reason: if there's a countepart I can run from Windows 7 then I'd rather do that)? Don't tell me "Metro is cool" - that's not "compelling" even if I agree (and I don't ...).

OK, presumably, there are some OS improvements but do most people - especially non-technical folks - really care about that?

"Ugly as sin" - that's being nice, Kat. :roflmao:
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 x64
There are many OS improvements, such as reduced resource usage, better multitasking, better SSD usage.. Then there are features like the enhanced multi-monitor support, Windows 2 Go, Storage Spaces, Faster boot times, etc..
 

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  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
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    Intel i7 3770K
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    Gigabyte Z77X-UD4 TH
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    Onboard Audio
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    Auria 27" IPS + 2x Samsung 23"
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    2560x1440 + 2x 2048x1152
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    Corsair m4 256GB, 2 WD 2TB drives
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    Antec SOLO II
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    Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
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    Logitech MX
Some of those improvements don't acutally exist or are available only to enterprise customers though.

By itself it's an ok step up, minus some teething problems, scanner driver issues etc and one so severe it prevents my use in anything "necessary" like as an HTPC due to a /worse/ multitasking issue.

I think the only real reason to upgrade is if you are a fan of the new interface. For everything else... well I wouldn't call any of it "compelling".
 

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System One

  • OS
    Windows 7/8
It doesn't have to be compelling if you can get it for $40.
 

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  • OS
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
My company pays for my TechNet subscription so I have Windows 8 Enterprise RTM already. It was free to me, but it's STILL not compelling ... :p
 

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System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 x64
Fair enough.

I will be getting a copy- don't imagine using it as my main o/s - just to dissect.

It will be interesting to see how far down this path MS are able to lead the public, before they catch on.
 

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  • OS
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin
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    PC/Desktop
Hi dyinisis. Welcome to EightForum. Good to have another savvy user. :) I enjoyed your post with your thoughts, but didn't like reading it so far as the grammar. :( I respect your point of view utterly, but don’t necessarily agree.

I hope you’re not offended by a little critique, for I realize that sometimes I can be a critical old fart. Please do us older people a favor, for our eyesights aren't as they used to be. Please use paragraphs when writing. Your spelling, use of words, sentences, and punctuation I think is good, but I feel your grammar is not up to par so far as paragraphs go.

As you can see, I'm starting another paragraph to help decipher anther train of thought and to ease the eyesight so as to follow along. This is one of the rules of writing. It keeps the reader on lines of sentences and interested in the subject matter. Not to say I’m any smarter than you, but I feel a better means of writing would attract more readers.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I will skip over this kind of post when I see it again, especially an OP, sorry to say. I took the privelege to format your post with what I think is proper paragraph usage. Wouldn’t you agree that it is more appealing?

Again, sincerely, welcome to the forum. It’s good to have you. I hope you enjoy your stay.

I have it installed as my primary OS and have been exploring it for about a week now. Although I do like several features, I am going to be re-installing 7 because I feel limited in 8.

The most frustrating aspect of 8 is the lack of simple menu choices. For instance, I can view photos in the photo app but when I want to export them, open them with another program, or really anything other than just viewing them... windows 8 limits those actions by not providing me with menu options other that four or five basic command choices. It's like having a phone OS on your PC! Even the apps available for it like the eBay app are useless because of these limited menu options, forcing you to go to the actual website to do practically anything other than buy! This format is appealing to a non-user who will enjoy the simplicity of its design. But anyone who likes having multiple options available to them will be disappointed because of the restrictive nature of its interface.

The user who doesn't rely on right-clicking to explore other possible actions might actually feel more comfortable having only five or six actions available to them, but people like myself who are not intimidated by having several choices will feel like they have given up any control that they once had had over their files for a smartphone styled PC.

The Internet Browser is deficient as well, the back button has moved to mid page on the left for back and right for forward, which interferes with fields on pages that happen to have them located in these areas, inadvertently causing you to switch pages when you are just trying to enter a field. This can be quite frustrating!

Upgrading to 8 is like taking a step backward in my opinion from 7 to XP. The search feature that made 7 so wonderful has disappeared along with the start menu, which could have at least been retained when you are in the desktop 7 mode that the system has built in. Why is there a desktop and a new start menu? And the answer is because of the new start menu not giving you the choices needed, forcing you to switch between modes to accomplish simple tasks! I am very quick to adapt to new formats, but the changes here seem to greatly limit the freedom you have in 7.

The best analogy I can give is using Media center to open media files vs. using media player in windows 7. Media center is more aesthetically pleasing with the way that you open or browse files, however the functionality is severely limited making the user prefer media player. That way if I want to make a playlist of movies to watch I simply select files, right-click and select add to media player, but this ever so simple option is just not available in media center, so I can only watch one movie at a time!

These little choices are important and not worth sacrificing for a display that is more elegantly simple. No, I don't think I will keep windows 8, perhaps it is better suited for a tablet. I will explore it for awhile longer to be sure, there interesting aspects to it that I do like.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    8.1 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Acer T690
    CPU
    Intel Pentium D Dual Core
    Motherboard
    Acer/Intel E946GZ
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    2GB (max upgrade)
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    Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3000 - PCI Express x16
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    Acer AL1917W A LCD
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    Acer Windows PS/2
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    Wireless Microsoft Arc
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    54mbp/s
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    IE11
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    Defender
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    Office Pro 2013 / Nokia Lumia 1520 Windows Phone 8.1DP GDR1
This is true but in fact the photo app/no-rotation problem is a prime example of why Metro does not belong on the desktop.

MS designed the entire thing for tablets and phones. you don't NEED a photo rotate in a photo viewer on a tablet or phone do you? :)

you NEED one on a desktop though. MS has had plenty of time to create functional metro apps, they have purposely limited their usefulness because they are /supposed/ to be run on a phone where things like printing and rotation have no real place. They are useless on the desktop, not just because they are "new" but because they were /designed/ for "not on a desktop".

This brings up the fragmentation issues, are you designing for a desktop or a phone? The apps will NOT all work everywhere because desktop users demand SO MUCH MORE from their desktop apps than their phone apps. It really makes the entire idea seem completely silly when you see things like this.

What are you blabbing on about? If I take a picture on my phone that I want to post to facebook and its orientation is incorrect having the ability to rotate it before sending is a NEED. Just because YOU don't have a need for it doesn't mean the need doesn't exist. Just because Microsoft's Photo App doesn't have the option to rotate a photo means absolutely nothing, there will be plenty of photo apps that will provide the options to manipulate photos in many ways including rotate.

If I'm using Metro on my desktop then the Apps I use will be specific to the way I work on the desktop. Apps are not made to replace desktop applications, they serve their own purpose and fragmentation doesn't even come into play.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7, Windows 8 RP
When I first try Windows 8 I really didn't care for it, primarily because of Metro. But the more I played around with it I've actually started to really like it. I won't be using any applications from the Microsoft (Windows?) Store that are Metro designed (i.e. full screen), but I have no problem with Metro as a launcher.

Once I realized that utilizing the Metro as a launching pad for my most used programs, and I can group said programs, it's not so bad. And with the latest incarnation of Start8 I'm a happy camper.

My only problem the full screen programs that are designed for Metro. While good for a tablet or phone it's terrible for desktop as multitasking becomes a major pain. You want two browsers open side-by-side? Forget about it if designed for Metro. Bust as long as developers keep a version that is compatible with the Desktop, Windows 8 is a fine replacement for Windows 7. And, at $40, it's a steal.
 

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What are you blabbing on about? If I take a picture on my phone that I want to post to facebook and its orientation is incorrect having the ability to rotate it before sending is a NEED. Just because YOU don't have a need for it doesn't mean the need doesn't exist. Just because Microsoft's Photo App doesn't have the option to rotate a photo means absolutely nothing, there will be plenty of photo apps that will provide the options to manipulate photos in many ways including rotate.

If I'm using Metro on my desktop then the Apps I use will be specific to the way I work on the desktop. Apps are not made to replace desktop applications, they serve their own purpose and fragmentation doesn't even come into play.

:ditto:
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    8.1 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Acer T690
    CPU
    Intel Pentium D Dual Core
    Motherboard
    Acer/Intel E946GZ
    Memory
    2GB (max upgrade)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3000 - PCI Express x16
    Sound Card
    Integrated RealTek ALC888 high-definition audio with 7.1 channel audio support
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer AL1917W A LCD
    Screen Resolution
    1440 X 900
    Hard Drives
    350 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10
    Thumb drives
    PSU
    Standard 250 watt
    Case
    Desktop 7.2" (183mm) W x 17.5" (445mm) L x 14.5"
    Cooling
    Dual case fans + CPU fan
    Keyboard
    Acer Windows PS/2
    Mouse
    Wireless Microsoft Arc
    Internet Speed
    54mbp/s
    Browser
    IE11
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    Office Pro 2013 / Nokia Lumia 1520 Windows Phone 8.1DP GDR1
This is true but in fact the photo app/no-rotation problem is a prime example of why Metro does not belong on the desktop.

MS designed the entire thing for tablets and phones. you don't NEED a photo rotate in a photo viewer on a tablet or phone do you? :)

you NEED one on a desktop though. MS has had plenty of time to create functional metro apps, they have purposely limited their usefulness because they are /supposed/ to be run on a phone where things like printing and rotation have no real place. They are useless on the desktop, not just because they are "new" but because they were /designed/ for "not on a desktop".

This brings up the fragmentation issues, are you designing for a desktop or a phone? The apps will NOT all work everywhere because desktop users demand SO MUCH MORE from their desktop apps than their phone apps. It really makes the entire idea seem completely silly when you see things like this.

What are you blabbing on about? If I take a picture on my phone that I want to post to facebook and its orientation is incorrect having the ability to rotate it before sending is a NEED. Just because YOU don't have a need for it doesn't mean the need doesn't exist. Just because Microsoft's Photo App doesn't have the option to rotate a photo means absolutely nothing, there will be plenty of photo apps that will provide the options to manipulate photos in many ways including rotate.

If I'm using Metro on my desktop then the Apps I use will be specific to the way I work on the desktop. Apps are not made to replace desktop applications, they serve their own purpose and fragmentation doesn't even come into play.

This is a picture VIEWER, not an editpor. If you want to resize or rotate "for real" get an editor. The original complaint was that there was no rotate on this viewer like there was in the old desktop viewer. But that is simply because this was designed to be a mobile application, where you would simply turn the phone to view he image properly. On a desktop to view the image you HAVE to rotate it. If the photo viewer was meant to be used on the desktop it would have had a rotate.

This is an EXAMPLE of how Microsoft is viewing the entire Metro universe and all the apps they have created for it as a CONSUMPTION device for tablets and phones. The cramming of it on the desktop is almost a secondary afterthought as a marketing tool.

Get it now???
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7/8
This is true but in fact the photo app/no-rotation problem is a prime example of why Metro does not belong on the desktop.

MS designed the entire thing for tablets and phones. you don't NEED a photo rotate in a photo viewer on a tablet or phone do you? :)

you NEED one on a desktop though. MS has had plenty of time to create functional metro apps, they have purposely limited their usefulness because they are /supposed/ to be run on a phone where things like printing and rotation have no real place. They are useless on the desktop, not just because they are "new" but because they were /designed/ for "not on a desktop".

This brings up the fragmentation issues, are you designing for a desktop or a phone? The apps will NOT all work everywhere because desktop users demand SO MUCH MORE from their desktop apps than their phone apps. It really makes the entire idea seem completely silly when you see things like this.

What are you blabbing on about? If I take a picture on my phone that I want to post to facebook and its orientation is incorrect having the ability to rotate it before sending is a NEED. Just because YOU don't have a need for it doesn't mean the need doesn't exist. Just because Microsoft's Photo App doesn't have the option to rotate a photo means absolutely nothing, there will be plenty of photo apps that will provide the options to manipulate photos in many ways including rotate.

If I'm using Metro on my desktop then the Apps I use will be specific to the way I work on the desktop. Apps are not made to replace desktop applications, they serve their own purpose and fragmentation doesn't even come into play.

This is a picture viewer, on a phone or a tablet, if the orientation is wrong, you just turn the tablet. On a desktop to view the image you have to rotate it. If the photo viewer was meant to be used on the desktop it would have had a rotate.

*I* did not design the thing, MICROSOFT did and this is an EXAMPLE of how Microsoft is viewing the entire Metro universe and all the apps they have created for it as a CONSUMPTION device for tablets and phones. The cramming of it on the desktop is almost a secondary afterthought as a marketing tool.

Get it now???

Try reading my response again because you clearly don't get it. How does rotating my tablet help with sending a picture to facebook in the correct orientation if the orientation is incorrect?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7, Windows 8 RP
UGH

Read mine again I tried to make it clearer to you.

YOU are looking for an EDITOR.

This is a picture VIEWER.

On the DESKTOP you NEED a rotate button to VIEW the image properly. On a tablet you do NOT.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7/8
UGH

Read mine again I tried to make it clearer to you.

YOU are looking for an EDITOR.

This is a picture VIEWER.

On the DESKTOP you NEED a rotate button to VIEW the image properly. On a tablet you do NOT.

You clearly stated in your post:

"they have purposely limited their usefulness because they are /supposed/ to be run on a phone where things like printing and rotation have no real place."

You are generalizing that photo rotation is not required on a phone, regardless of app. I gave you an example of where rotation is required on a phone which means it has a very real place.
 

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System One

  • OS
    Windows 7, Windows 8 RP
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