Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Uncontestable proof that "Metro" is touch only

  1. #61


    Thank you, pparks1. That was awefully nice of you.

    The article is based on opinion rather than fact for the most part. He points out a few examples of what he thinks are flaws, such as the learning curve of where to find items such as the Control Panel and history. Things change.

    It seems to me that no business will touch any new OS for some time, so no big news there. In fact it's a no-brainer.

    This is typical Me generation thinking. "There's been a change and I don't like it. How can we ever cope?" Not to say that all in that generation think that way, but it seems to me he does. I'm even wondering if he has a precription for an antidepressant.

    I don't have the time to expound, so I'll end with a quote from a commenter from the article page of whom I agree with.

    Contrived

    Whilst, I've no problem with your conclusion, I don't think the reasoning is illustrated well.

    You're talking about touch on the desktop and m/k use in metro - the opposite of what's intended.

    control panel is easy enough - power users will find out Win+X or right-click on start tip. The rest can do a search for it - typing no more than the letter 'C'.

    "Stretching compatibility" - all applications developed for Win7 run fine in Win8 - that's NOT compatible?

    Tablets need a clear business justification to not choose iPad? What does the iPad have that these won't? Even Windows RT will be more manageable than iPads (iPads don't have much beyond EAS policy enforcement). Businesses running a handful of apps don't care about 600,000 apps in an app store. They care that they can begin using their applications right now on an x86 tablet whilst metro-style equivalents are developed, that these same apps can be run from employees tablets and desktops (employee needs to only familiarise with one application that runs on any hardware).

    Touch hardware will help too.

    Minimal flipping back and forth between metro and desktop is needed.

    I've made counter-comments but to be honest I don't want to, I'm not bothered by someone saying they don't like windows 8 but too much of this article is just "blaah, it's yucky I don't like it", rather than points fleshed out properly with examples. Only paragraphs 6 and 7 seem to have anything which could be remotely called an example.

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  2. #62


    India
    Posts : 1,184
    Windows 8.1, Windows 7, Linux Mint 14


    Thanks for the link pparks.

    I read the article. Though I agree with Mr. Honeyball on some points, I'm afraid I can't agree at all here:

    Any existing user will be tearing their hair out at this nonsense: the flipping backwards and forwards between Metro and the desktop, the lack of a Start button, the way all that history has been hidden away. Ask a user to find Control Panel and see the laptop being thrown into a nearby bin.
    I'm an existing user and I'm not at all tearing my hair out :thumbdown:
    Ask a user to find Control Panel and see the laptop being thrown into a nearby bin.
    Is he kidding?? I'm afraid, he must have lost his mind while writing that line!!
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  3. #63


    India
    Posts : 1,184
    Windows 8.1, Windows 7, Linux Mint 14


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Contrived

    Whilst, I've no problem with your conclusion, I don't think the reasoning is illustrated well.

    You're talking about touch on the desktop and m/k use in metro - the opposite of what's intended.

    control panel is easy enough - power users will find out Win+X or right-click on start tip. The rest can do a search for it - typing no more than the letter 'C'.

    "Stretching compatibility" - all applications developed for Win7 run fine in Win8 - that's NOT compatible?

    Tablets need a clear business justification to not choose iPad? What does the iPad have that these won't? Even Windows RT will be more manageable than iPads (iPads don't have much beyond EAS policy enforcement). Businesses running a handful of apps don't care about 600,000 apps in an app store. They care that they can begin using their applications right now on an x86 tablet whilst metro-style equivalents are developed, that these same apps can be run from employees tablets and desktops (employee needs to only familiarise with one application that runs on any hardware).

    Touch hardware will help too.

    Minimal flipping back and forth between metro and desktop is needed.

    I've made counter-comments but to be honest I don't want to, I'm not bothered by someone saying they don't like windows 8 but too much of this article is just "blaah, it's yucky I don't like it", rather than points fleshed out properly with examples. Only paragraphs 6 and 7 seem to have anything which could be remotely called an example.
    Thanks for quoting this brilliant comment, Tony. I agree with this comment hundred and ten percent. :thumbup:

    I don't know if Mr. Honeyball wrote that control panel thing seriously. If he did ....... well, then he didn't use Windows 8 for more than an hour and he should have thought twice before writing that.
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  4. #64


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Arpan View Post
    Thanks for the link pparks.

    I read the article. Though I agree with Mr. Honeyball on some points, I'm afraid I can't agree at all here:

    Any existing user will be tearing their hair out at this nonsense: the flipping backwards and forwards between Metro and the desktop, the lack of a Start button, the way all that history has been hidden away. Ask a user to find Control Panel and see the laptop being thrown into a nearby bin.
    I'm an existing user and I'm not at all tearing my hair out :thumbdown:
    Ask a user to find Control Panel and see the laptop being thrown into a nearby bin.
    Is he kidding?? I'm afraid, he must have lost his mind while writing that line!!
    Impossible! There are many ways in finding the control panel.
    If you don't find control panel then maybe you should not use it, it's hidden so than normal users don't mess thing up so easily.

    But as it seems some users really need voice control: you speak "control panel" and it should open...
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  5. #65


    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    The article is based on opinion rather than fact for the most part. He points out a few examples of what he thinks are flaws, such as the learning curve of where to find items such as the Control Panel and history. Things change
    Technically, Windows 8 works fine behind the scenes. But there will obviously be widespread opinions on how the desktop/start screen works. I cannot prove that 1 is better than the other, but I do know that one suits me and the way that I work a ton better. So, while it might be just my own opinion, it's more of a worthwhile metric for me when evaluating which to use than some facts.



    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    It seems to me that no business will touch any new OS for some time, so no big news there. In fact it's a no-brainer.
    It used to be that businesses didn't venture near a new OS until a service pack. However, the businesses I have been in, did have people move to Vista (before a SP) and there was fairly fast adoption of Windows 7 right out of the gate. But I haven't heard much about businesses going to Windows 8. Aside from my playing around with it, the company really hasn't looked at it, and doesn't seem to care about it whatsoever.



    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    This is typical Me generation thinking. "There's been a change and I don't like it. How can we ever cope?" Not to say that all in that generation think that way, but it seems to me he does. I'm even wondering if he has a precription for an antidepressant.
    This is a rather substantial change. Many don't really like it. Others do. I think this is more than being fearful of change. This is a fundamental questioning of whether this change is for the better or not.
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  6. #66


    The easiest way for me is WinKey (brings up Start Screen) type c possibly o and maybe n -> enter. Or pointer lower left corner, right click mini Start Screen), guts menu.
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  7. #67


    I'm no fan of TIFKAM myself but even an old fogie like me learns to adapt rather quickly.

    The opinions on Windows 8 will vary far and wide: when XP was introduced some people hated it. Then when Vista came along some of those same people cried out "I hate Vista - don't take away my XP!" Surely some folks remember what a radical change Windows 95 was from Windows 3.x running under DOS but I haven't heard anyone wishing we still did things the Windows 3.x way.

    I am staying with Windows 7 as my primary OS for a variety of reasons. I can't say that I "hate" Windows 8 but also cannot say that I "love" it. It's a different way of doing things, and I've gotten used to how it works, but I think it's a little too soon to jump in with both feet. That's why I love being able to run it as a VM: best of both worlds that way.
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  8. #68


    DeLand, FL
    Posts : 380
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit


    OK ... it's time that a developer chime in.

    Quote Originally Posted by phailyoor View Post
    app bar != context menu. There is a reason the context menu comes up near the mouse pointer.
    No ... not correct. "Context" means that the contents of the menu are based (as closely as possible) on the subject matter that is "in focus" where the mouse caret is located when right-clicked. The menu does not have to come up near the mouse but in most implementations does so for convenience. (A design idea I agree with, BTW). If the pop-up app bar has targets that perform functions that are based on the context from where the click took place, it too is a "context menu". If it does not, then it is not, regardless of its screen position. Proximity to the mouse caret does not make it a context menu.

    Headache anyone?

    -Max
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  9. #69


    Posts : 248
    Windows 8 RTM (Retinas taking damage...)


    Quote Originally Posted by Max Peck View Post
    OK ... it's time that a developer chime in.
    Quote Originally Posted by phailyoor View Post
    app bar != context menu. There is a reason the context menu comes up near the mouse pointer.
    No ... not correct. "Context" means that the contents of the menu are based (as closely as possible) on the subject matter that is "in focus" where the mouse caret is located when right-clicked. The menu does not have to come up near the mouse but in most implementations does so for convenience. (A design idea I agree with, BTW). If the pop-up app bar has targets that perform functions that are based on the context from where the click took place, it too is a "context menu". If it does not, then it is not, regardless of its screen position. Proximity to the mouse caret does not make it a context menu. Headache anyone? -Max
    Taken literally, context menu means a context sensitive menu. In modern usage, it is often considered to refer to the specific user control that pops up near the mouse on a right click.
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  10. #70


    The point about the "control panel" is pretty easily understood. People who aren't enthusiasts, probably don't come to this site, they haven't seen or used Windows 8 and they know nothing about the new metro/start screen layout.

    When a person, with say 10+ years experience with Windows, sits down at the start screen they are faced with a bunch of tiles. I haven't found a single person YET, who natively knows to simply start typing to find an app (like the control panel). So, after a few seconds of scanning the tiles, they find Desktop. They click on it. It takes them to the "classic desktop". So, now they are over there, without a start button. Some people struggle trying to figure out how to get back to the tiles. Almost everybody I have seen use the OS without a tutorial gets stuck in the desktop. Sure, the Windows key on their keyboard "could" do it, but many don't use this key. And many don't drive the cursor to the extreme corners, the hot corners don't come up.

    So, once you know a few tricks, getting to the control panel IS quite easy. But no doubt many might be confused at first and get frustrated with this new OS.
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Uncontestable proof that "Metro" is touch only
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