Win32 is the true Windows 8 (for now...)

phailyoor

New Member
Member
Messages
248
People are saying that Desktop is an "app" and that metro/WinRT IS windows. That's not quite true(yet). ATM, Metro/RT is just an overlay that runs in the explorer shell.

Reasons:

Metro/RT is part of the explorer shell. Kill the explorer shell, and your system is metro-free. Shell replacements are abundant, and the one thing they have in common is that they don't, and never will support metro/RT apps.

Windows runs on win32. There are hundreds of essential windows services that run on win32. IE runs on win32. Metro apps depend on thousands of win32 executables and libraries. Even in something like windows RT, Win32 is still powering everything behind the scenes.

"Desktop" is always running. Windowed win32 applications always work (to some degree). Even without any services, the desktop is still there, and functioning. Even in winPE, the desktop is still there. Even when desktop composition is disabled(Impossible-NOT!) the desktop is still there. Even when UAC is fully disabled, the desktop still works. On the other hand, touch one system file, and the DRM shuts down all of the WinRT apps.

Desktop isn't an "app" quite yet, and the classic windows is still king... for now... Let's make it stay that way.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 RTM (Retinas taking damage...)
    CPU
    i5 2500
    Motherboard
    msi p67a-g43
    Memory
    16 GB DDR3 1333
    Graphics Card(s)
    2x Nvidia 9800 GTX+
app.jpg
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Server 2012 / 8.0
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Built
    CPU
    Intel i7 QuadCore 3770k
    Motherboard
    Asrock Extreme 4
    Memory
    16GB Crucial Ballistix
    Graphics Card(s)
    intel embedded gpu
    Sound Card
    Sound Blaster Z
    Monitor(s) Displays
    AOC / Westinghouse
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Plextor pcie msata
    PSU
    Rosewill Silent Night 500W Fanless / PicoPSU
    Case
    open bench - no case enclosure
    Cooling
    Silverstone HEO2 Passive Silent
    Keyboard
    logitech washable K310
    Mouse
    logitech wired
    Browser
    ie / maxthon
    Other Info
    Totally silent. No fans at all.
Microsoft is "lying" to the user there.

Desktop is NOT an "App". That is merely a button to switch the desktop into view.

Heck "Bing" is not really an app either. The only actual app on there is Mail. But it would take pages of documentation to explain the subtle differences between all the different kings of apps and it's simply easier to call them all "Apps" to the user...
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7/8
WinRT is the NEW Windows, Win32 is still Windows.



Actually, if you look at the live tiles on the Start Screen, it starts to appear to be the new Windows reimagined. The live tiles are like a window into that app. You have little windows with content actively updating without even needing them to be open. Another metaphor! When you open the app, it's sticking your head out an open windows, you see just what's in that app, maybe you want more windows to stick yourself out of. App snap! :D
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
It is all a metaphor, of course.

Metro is just laid on top.

There is allegedly going to be something that looks like a desktop on the RT tablets - but afaik it can't run the wonderful programs we rely on.

Explorer.exe has been butchered to make it difficult to get anything usable without using the metro stuff.

Fortunately, we can make our own explorer shells.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
Win32 is the base, RT is just an extension, overlay, framework, compare it with .NET that runs on top. So it's obvious that RT doesn't run without win32.

]

What the.. Who said the Desktop is an App?
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 x64
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Envy DV6 7250
    CPU
    Intel i7-3630QM
    Motherboard
    HP, Intel HM77 Express Chipset
    Memory
    16GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel HD4000 + Nvidia Geforce 630M
    Sound Card
    IDT HD Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    15.6' built-in + Samsung S22D300 + 17.3' LG Phillips
    Screen Resolution
    multiple resolutions
    Hard Drives
    Samsung SSD 250GB + Hitachi HDD 750GB
    PSU
    120W adapter
    Case
    small
    Cooling
    laptop cooling pad
    Keyboard
    Backlit built-in + big one in USB
    Mouse
    SteelSeries Sensei
    Internet Speed
    slow and steady
    Browser
    Chromium, Pale Moon, Firefox Developer Edition
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    That's basically it.
FSeal said:
Desktop is NOT an "App". That is merely a button to switch the desktop into view.
A shortcut is what they call an "App". Create a shortcut to your website, then distribute it as an App. That's the basis of the App Store, the core concept of Metro. Brilliant isn't it. No wonder that they had already 400 "Apps" in store already before RTM was released.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    w9x
WinRT is the NEW Windows, Win32 is still Windows.
Right. Windows RT is the "new windows," which despite its name, is a mostly distinct overlay that runs on top of the old windows.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 RTM (Retinas taking damage...)
    CPU
    i5 2500
    Motherboard
    msi p67a-g43
    Memory
    16 GB DDR3 1333
    Graphics Card(s)
    2x Nvidia 9800 GTX+
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Server 2012 / 8.0
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Built
    CPU
    Intel i7 QuadCore 3770k
    Motherboard
    Asrock Extreme 4
    Memory
    16GB Crucial Ballistix
    Graphics Card(s)
    intel embedded gpu
    Sound Card
    Sound Blaster Z
    Monitor(s) Displays
    AOC / Westinghouse
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Plextor pcie msata
    PSU
    Rosewill Silent Night 500W Fanless / PicoPSU
    Case
    open bench - no case enclosure
    Cooling
    Silverstone HEO2 Passive Silent
    Keyboard
    logitech washable K310
    Mouse
    logitech wired
    Browser
    ie / maxthon
    Other Info
    Totally silent. No fans at all.

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 RTM (Retinas taking damage...)
    CPU
    i5 2500
    Motherboard
    msi p67a-g43
    Memory
    16 GB DDR3 1333
    Graphics Card(s)
    2x Nvidia 9800 GTX+
nt.jpg
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Server 2012 / 8.0
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Built
    CPU
    Intel i7 QuadCore 3770k
    Motherboard
    Asrock Extreme 4
    Memory
    16GB Crucial Ballistix
    Graphics Card(s)
    intel embedded gpu
    Sound Card
    Sound Blaster Z
    Monitor(s) Displays
    AOC / Westinghouse
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Plextor pcie msata
    PSU
    Rosewill Silent Night 500W Fanless / PicoPSU
    Case
    open bench - no case enclosure
    Cooling
    Silverstone HEO2 Passive Silent
    Keyboard
    logitech washable K310
    Mouse
    logitech wired
    Browser
    ie / maxthon
    Other Info
    Totally silent. No fans at all.
True, true.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro, iOS 7.1, Elementary OS
    Computer type
    Tablet
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Apple
    Memory
    1 GB
    Screen Resolution
    2048x1536
    Other Info
    iPad Air
What the.. Who said the Desktop is an App?
Many silly people. Some are on these forums.

The Desktop *WINDOW* is a metro app. It's quite easy to tell. When you're on the desktop, bring your cursor to the top of the screen and notice the hand icon. Click and drag and you can see that the desktop window becomes a small window you can drag and dock in a metro snap.

Also, Metro is *NOT* an overlay on Windows Explorer. The start screen is, but Metro itself is not. This is very easy to prove, particularly if you have two screens. Start a metro app, I used Messenger. bring up task manager on the second screen. Kill the base Explorer process, notice that messenger still works.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    CPU
    Intel i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Z77X-UD4 TH
    Memory
    16GB DDR3 1600
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVidia GTX 650
    Sound Card
    Onboard Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Auria 27" IPS + 2x Samsung 23"
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440 + 2x 2048x1152
    Hard Drives
    Corsair m4 256GB, 2 WD 2TB drives
    Case
    Antec SOLO II
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
    Mouse
    Logitech MX

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
Also, Metro is *NOT* an overlay on Windows Explorer. The start screen is, but Metro itself is not. This is very easy to prove, particularly if you have two screens. Start a metro app, I used Messenger. bring up task manager on the second screen. Kill the base Explorer process, notice that messenger still works.
Notice that you can't actually snap, close, move, or switch any metro things without the explorer process. Also, if you suspend winlogon and kill dwm, then it will go away completely(kill explorer first, or you will regret it).
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 RTM (Retinas taking damage...)
    CPU
    i5 2500
    Motherboard
    msi p67a-g43
    Memory
    16 GB DDR3 1333
    Graphics Card(s)
    2x Nvidia 9800 GTX+
dwm stands for Display Window Manager. It's what merges the two subsystems into a single display. So it's not surprising that if you kill the thing which allows interaction between both subsystems, you can't interact with the subsystems. That's just brilliant logic there.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    CPU
    Intel i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Z77X-UD4 TH
    Memory
    16GB DDR3 1600
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVidia GTX 650
    Sound Card
    Onboard Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Auria 27" IPS + 2x Samsung 23"
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440 + 2x 2048x1152
    Hard Drives
    Corsair m4 256GB, 2 WD 2TB drives
    Case
    Antec SOLO II
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
    Mouse
    Logitech MX
dwm stands for Display Window Manager. It's what merges the two subsystems into a single display. So it's not surprising that if you kill the thing which allows interaction between both subsystems, you can't interact with the subsystems. That's just brilliant logic there.
Actually, the desktop works just fine without DWM. If you use a shell replacement such as explorer7, the windows system is fully functional without desktop composition.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 RTM (Retinas taking damage...)
    CPU
    i5 2500
    Motherboard
    msi p67a-g43
    Memory
    16 GB DDR3 1333
    Graphics Card(s)
    2x Nvidia 9800 GTX+
Actually, the desktop works just fine without DWM. If you use a shell replacement such as explorer7, the windows system is fully functional without desktop composition.

You didn't actually read what I wrote. Instead, you responded to something you think I said. Let me repeat. DWM merges the two subsystems. So the fact that you can't use both if you kill DWM is not exactly rocket science.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    CPU
    Intel i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Z77X-UD4 TH
    Memory
    16GB DDR3 1600
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVidia GTX 650
    Sound Card
    Onboard Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Auria 27" IPS + 2x Samsung 23"
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440 + 2x 2048x1152
    Hard Drives
    Corsair m4 256GB, 2 WD 2TB drives
    Case
    Antec SOLO II
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
    Mouse
    Logitech MX
Back
Top