Solved Let's stop moaning

davehc

New Member
Pro User
Messages
1,150
Location
Denmark (But English)
It seems to me, on observation, that 90% of the comments, in this forum, when discussing the Metro screen, seem to lead into an argument, which leans towards comparison, of the two.
I, personally, do not see any fruitful outcome to such a comparison. It is very much a question of choice.
In the preceding OSs, there was a similar choice, but not, possibly, so dramatic. If you refer back to ancient threads, you will find countless numbers, advocating a 1. Busy taskbar, 2. A busy desktop, or, 3. Merely keeping, and using, the start menu to its full extent. Purely a matter of individual taste.
There is a minority of members here (only on this forum, to such an extent) who appear to have found difficulty in accepting the Metro start menu. Rather than setting up there Metro as they did there old desktop (#2), they prefer to argue the merits of the old method. Ditto the taskbar.
I, whenever I completed a reinstall., spent a little time in the old menu, creating folders and tucking my shortcuts into those folders. After installing all of my regular software, this could take about ten minutes. That was not a lot of valuable time for me, as it was only a once in a blue moon operation. My normal method, after my frequent experiments, was to re-establish my image, with everything intact.
I liked a clean desktop - not everyone's choice, that is apparent. Now I have the best of both worlds. I can set up my Metro, as in the old start way, and I still have a clean desktop waiting for me, with the usual choice of a couple or so icons (Recycle bin - Control panel etc..) should I prefer to go there, at the click of my mouse or one key - ditto returning to metro. My one regret, so far, is that in Metro, those folders remain open, which tends to make the Metro look cumbersome. It could be made to look visually more attractive, but as it is designed primarily for touch screens, I guess that is why MS has kept those hideously large and ugly squares - in spite of a multitude of suggestions.
I have weakened, to the extent that I have installed the "Classic" menu. This, again, gives me the choice, of, when closing an App I may be using, I can click into the old, familiar, menu, or click into the Metro screen.
I can certainly see that use of the taskbar, if that is a users choice, can be beneficial, but to me (not all, obviously) that tends to look a little cumbersome to me. For the busy desktop users, it remains their choice. But, as I said, I prefer to keep at least one, empty desktop, which I now have by default.

The endless arguments here, on the relative merits and uses of all three methods, are quite pointless and can have no satisfactory conclusion. I can see, on analysis, that it is only a handful of subscribers who are actually involved (guilty!) but, for newcomers, or those who only occasionally visit, it certainly gives an impression of a general hate session for Windows 8 - a rather remarkable impression, none the less, for a Forum which is calling itself a Windows 8 forum!
There are several other aspects of Windows 8, which seem to have slipped through the cracks, here and on other forums. Here is one of several, for example, on performance. Small improvements for the general user, but surely a move forward?
I am sure it will be of great help to all members, if the discussions start to put more emphasis on small ways , or even hacks, to improve the performance facilities and enhance the general us of Windows 8
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Other Info
    Use several different computers during a day, so specs are irrelevant.
I am not used to be the first replier, but here is mine. ;)

As an average user, I see those preferences as it is. Each of us does have. Some say it in normal tone, others louder, but surely it can not be quantified as majority.

I'm not the fan of metro UI but I honestly like Win 8 my way. I can choose using classic shell (or other third party start menu), or arrange all frequently used app icons on the first metro screen and ignore the rest. That is how my preferences have it ways.

Change has never been easy, but people will eventually pick their way following it sooner, or.... later.

Sorry if my English a bit scrambled. :p

Kevin.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home Built system
    CPU
    Core i5
    Motherboard
    Intel DH55PJ
    Memory
    4 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI 4650
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD Integrated
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LG Flatron L1742S; LG Flatron 19"; Samsung TV 48"
    Screen Resolution
    1280:1024; 1366:768;1920:1080
    Hard Drives
    SSD 256 GB
    Seagate Barracuda 500 GB
    WDC 1 TB
    PSU
    Power
    Case
    Simbadda
    Cooling
    Conventional
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless
    Mouse
    Logitech Wireless
    Internet Speed
    1.4 MBPS
    Other Info
    External HDD WDC 2 TB
    Dial Up Modem Huawei
    Home-made Home Theater
I've been a HUGE proponent of the Start Screen and find it's better to use for me versus the menu. That's cool that others don't see that.......yet. :D

And I agree, it's pointless. I also agree about people who are just disregarding trying to use the new and keep it the old way. It's a waste of time for everyone to debate over things that some aren't even trying to use and just belittle it and sparking a flame war.

As this is a support forum, I'd rather have people guiding others in how to use the new. There are a couple of threads I've come across that do and that's awesome. If you want a start menu, go for it, great, but don't be trying to start a HUGE debacle over what is better than what. What I find better may not be what you find better, OK.

I just have to say this because I have to, the title just sets it up for, but that's what she said! :roflmao:
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
Ah yes. if you don't like it you must not have tried it, seriously bud. That's the best you got. Because it's just not possible for all those people to have actually tried it and coming away thinking it was crap, lmao. :roflmao:
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W7
I am old enough to have been in this business for quite some time ;), and can remember the release of many, no make that ALL Microsoft windows releases, Everyone of them caused an outcry from users who did not like the change to what they were used to.

I can remember the first windows release and the words of wisdom from the DOS advocates "Who Needs it" "What's the Point" "I'm fine with DOS and TSRs, they're quicker" (TSR= Terminate and Stay Resident applications that were used to access things in addition to the ONE program DOS allowed), People took a while but adapted to what was the greatest change ever in the PC world.

I can recall the outcry from users when Microsoft got rid of the "good old Program Groups", and replaced them with, "this Stupid Start Button", with the release of Windows 98. Again people got used to it :)

One of the most hated User interfaces at the time of release was Windows XP, with it's "Interface designed by Disney", Now look at it, Loved and fondly missed, ( or still in use ), often retained by IT departments that Cannot or Do not want to learn something New, as it's "Better the Devil you know"

Vista, "the worst OS ever", "A total Dog", I used in many locations for about three years without any major isuues, I preffered the interface to XP's and I ran it on hardware up to the task, I as many others have seen Vista running on XP era hardware and the resultant problems, that also applied to XP on Widows 95 Hardware, though not to the same level as the changes under the hood were much greater in Vista than XP, People still use Vista and are happy with it, they adapted to it's quirks and got on with it.

Windows 7 was an unusual release for Microsoft as it met with almost universal acceptance from the Users, ( though not from a lot of companies who had various reasons for staying with XP, weather valid or not).

Now it's the current champion and Blue eyed boy of the MS stable, I think it's probably the best Windows since Windows 2000 but I can see where MS are looking to a future where the PC is less prevalent in the home and workplace. Tablets and Smart devices will soon be the way most users interact with computingand a universal look and feel makes sense.

I am beginning to get used to the Metro interface and can see good and bad, for my usage, but when I've shown the interface to Not IT people, (the people who will actually use it at home or in work, the general impression is good, they understand the concept, and quickly work out how to do "what they want to do" Use the net for various things, white a letter, listen to music.

I think that windows 8 and Metro will not be liked by all, especially us Geeks that populate this and other Tech forums, but with correct marketing, may be quite popular in the real world.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro x64 x2 Windows 10 Enterprise x64, Ubuntu
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Real World Computing
    CPU
    AMD FX8350 8 Core @4GHz
    Motherboard
    Asus M5A78L-M USB3
    Memory
    32GB [4x8GB] DDR3 1600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus nVidia GTX750TI-OC-2GD5 (2GB DDR5)
    Sound Card
    ASUS Xoner DG + SPDIF to 5.1 System + HDMI
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer G276HL 27", (DVi) + Samsung 39" HDTV (HDMI)
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080 @60Hz + 1920 x 1080 @60Hz
    Hard Drives
    Internal
    Crucial 256GB SSD,
    WDC WD30EZRX-00D8PB0 3TB,
    Toshiba HDWD130 3TB
    Seagate ST2000DM001-1CH1 2TB,

    External (USB3)
    Seagate Backup+ Hub BK SCSI Disk 8TB
    2.5/3.5 Hot Swap Cradle, USB3 + eSata (client HDDs)

    NAS
    Seagate ST4000DM000
    PSU
    Aerocool Templarius Imperator 750W 80+ Silver
    Case
    AeroCool X-Warrior Devil Red Tower
    Cooling
    Stock CPU, Rear 120mm, Front 2x120mm, Side 2x120mm
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless K710 & K270
    Mouse
    Logitech Wireless M710 M185 & M570 Trackball
    Internet Speed
    37Mb/s Down - 9.5Mb/s Up
    Browser
    Chrome
    Antivirus
    BitDefender Total Security 2017
    Other Info
    Also run...

    Desktop - 6Core 8GB - Windows 10 Enterprise x64,
    Laptop - Quad 8GB - Windows 10 Pro x64
    Netbook - Ubuntu
    2 x Nexus 7 Android tablets
    Samsung 10.2" tablet
    Sony Z3 Android Smartphone
    HTC One Android Smartphone
Many people seem to go thru a lot of trouble to make Win8 look like Win7 - with all kinds of obscure shells and OEM programs. What is the point of that. Why not use Win7 instead, then you do not have to stand on your head.

There is very little in Win8 that makes it worth to spend even the $40 that an upgrade is supposed to cost. I will save my money and rather spend it on a good dinner.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Vista and Win7
    System Manufacturer/Model
    2xHP, 2xGateway, 1xDell, 1xSony
    Hard Drives
    5 SSDs and 12 HDs
Many people seem to go thru a lot of trouble to make Win8 look like Win7 - with all kinds of obscure shells and OEM programs. What is the point of that. Why not use Win7 instead, then you do not have to stand on your head.

There is very little in Win8 that makes it worth to spend even the $40 that an upgrade is supposed to cost. I will save my money and rather spend it on a good dinner.

I'll be honest with you guys, I personally LOVE metro (modern ui), been following it since the Zune HD, always wanted but cant afford one, im waiting on the list to get my Surface tablet just because of metro really, but the deal is, it does not work on desktop.
Even though it looks nice and all, I still find myself in desktop 99.9% of time on my desktop.And all the saying why not staying with win7 instead, win8 has many new features I love. First of, its like a Ferrari compared to the Thin PC (which is even stripped down windows 7 and should be fast), I love the new copy thingy, mount iso support, task manager and all that should have been with Windows 7 in a first place.

I love Windows 8 , I really do, but not on my desktop, I cannot love it here, on my upcoming tablet, yes for sure.
Using Windows 8 daily since CP and I still kinda hate not having a proper start menu, and distracting the whole screen by it. What if I just want to search something from start that I want to read form notepad? No can do.

Most important stuff I use is pinned to taskbar and I'm really fine the way it is.

Oh yeah and then there is that app store. Microsoft should really control what stuff they put up there, for example: apps that look really crappy, even tho metro is really nice or there are apps that name is in English, you download it and discover its some Taiwan, Chinese crap.

EDIT: It is not moan, its my opinion, I know you guys don't give a crap, but why was this topic started then. I have right for my opinion, whether you like it or not.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    8
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Kala Computer Labs (built myself)
    CPU
    Celeron G440, 1core, 1.6ghz, Sandy Bridge
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte GA-H61-S2V-B3
    Memory
    4GB Corsair Value series
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel HD1000
    Sound Card
    Integrated
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LG Flatron W2242T
    Screen Resolution
    1680X1050
    Hard Drives
    160GB TOSHIBA 5400RPM
    PSU
    FSP 350W
    Case
    Codegen....
    Cooling
    Stock
    Keyboard
    Logitech Internet Keyboard 350
    Mouse
    Logitech...
    Internet Speed
    Not dial up
I thing the new start screen is way better than the old one and I like the idea of metro. win8 seems to be good optimized under the hood, but I really have to say it's unbelievable ugly and have a lot of unnecessary annoyance. I was pro win8 a long time and I think many changes are good. I even like the idea from the new simple interface, but it's just really really bad finished and it's no fun to use due to that. the should hire some good designers and let them finish the stuff. I can only think of two possible reasons, not enough time or strange decision from the mr. balmer(aka I want to this way because i'm the boss) .even gnome3 feels way better!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    win8
It seems to me, on observation, that 90% of the comments, in this forum, when discussing the Metro screen, seem to lead into an argument, which leans towards comparison, of the two.
I'm not sure many of my comments have lead to arguments, but a discussion and comparison of the 2 for sure. This is such a big change, and something that cannot be disabled in Windows 8...so it only seems natural to be discussed a lot.


There is a minority of members here (only on this forum, to such an extent) who appear to have found difficulty in accepting the Metro start menu. Rather than setting up there Metro as they did there old desktop (#2), they prefer to argue the merits of the old method. Ditto the taskbar.
I'm guilty of being one who finds difficulty in using the new start menu. Cutting to the chase, for somebody who uses my PC day in and day out in a business sense, using nothing but desktop apps, and multitasking heavily...this new change isn't very appealing to me. For a home user, or lighter user (who are becoming more the majority of the user base), things are probably not so much an issue. I'm not arguing that these people are wrong in their like for the OS, just explaining why it isn't right for me.

I liked a clean desktop - not everyone's choice, that is apparent. Now I have the best of both worlds. I can set up my Metro, as in the old start way, and I still have a clean desktop waiting for me, with the usual choice of a couple or so icons (Recycle bin - Control panel etc..) should I prefer to go there, at the click of my mouse or one key - ditto returning to metro.
I like to have a clean desktop as well. I don't use many icons and I never got along with gadgets and clutter. For me though, the start screen is like a secondary desktop and I don't want the clutter their either :(

but, for newcomers, or those who only occasionally visit, it certainly gives an impression of a general hate session for Windows 8 - a rather remarkable impression, none the less, for a Forum which is calling itself a Windows 8 forum!
Well, many people who come in search of forums, will likely be here due to confusion about how to accomplish something in Windows 8. They may find relief to see they are not alone when they see the ardent fans of the system complaining.

Those of us who are against/dislike Metro don't want to see MS fail or everybody to leave Windows...we want to see a system that is very well liked (just like Windows 7...it was such a relief to have a release with very little bashing). We are obviously concerned that a lack of choice in this matter might be detrimental to the success of the OS.


There are several other aspects of Windows 8, which seem to have slipped through the cracks, here and on other forums. Here is one of several, for example, on performance. Small improvements for the general user, but surely a move forward?
While I think there are posts praising these small changes, they are often overshadowed by the things that are far more apparent and not universally liked.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Self-Built in July 2009
    CPU
    Intel Q9550 2.83Ghz OC'd to 3.40Ghz
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R rev. 1.1, F12 BIOS
    Memory
    8GB G.Skill PI DDR2-800, 4-4-4-12 timings
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA 1280MB Nvidia GeForce GTX570
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC899A 8 channel onboard audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    23" Acer x233H
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Intel X25-M 80GB Gen 2 SSD
    Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black, 32MB cache. WD1001FALS
    PSU
    Corsair 620HX modular
    Case
    Antec P182
    Cooling
    stock
    Keyboard
    ABS M1 Mechanical
    Mouse
    Logitech G9 Laser Mouse
    Internet Speed
    15/2 cable modem
    Other Info
    Windows and Linux enthusiast. Logitech G35 Headset.
To claim that persons who do not like W8 are moaning is another way of saying they should like what the supporters of W8 like. And they are disparagingly branded for daring to have a different preference and opinon.

Win8 is great if you like a tile start menu instead of an alpha-numeric cascaded one. The thing is, many people do not. And they don't have to jusitfy why not!

This latter group are not moaning, but using this forum to express their stong censure of M$ for refusing to cater to their preferences.

In the View options of Windows folders for every version, there has always been the ability to personalise with a choice of tiles, icons, list, etc. Yet this option is missisng for the start menu in W8. Instead the tile menu is summarily forced on all users, unless third party programs are used.

This is seen by many as an arrogant disregard by M$ for their traditional desktop users.

So the answer to the thread topic is NO! We will not stop lodging our protests to M$ via this forum.

Many feel so strongly about it that they are willing to skip this version of Windows and stick with W7, or even go to Mac or Linux.

We could start a thread entitled: "Why don't the supporters of W8 stop moaning and whinging at persons who don't like W8?' And they should also stop denigrating us for disagreeing.

Even if M$ stick with a tile start menu over succeeding versions of Windows, in 7 or 8 years they will suddenly announce a revolutionary new improved space age concept ... An alpha-numeric Start Menu!

I mean, first it was bell-bottom trousers, then flared, then stove pipes, and eventually it goes back to where it all started! And simply begins the cycle over again; from blue suede shoes to hip hop pink!
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Built as DIY
    CPU
    6 core 12 thread & 4 core
    Motherboard
    Inel Extreme & Intel standard
    Memory
    12GB & 8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    3 top end SLI linked & onboard
    Sound Card
    In built in graphics card & onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    24 & 23 inch Samsung LED backlit
    Screen Resolution
    High def
    Hard Drives
    Corsair Force 128GB SATA3 SSDs in each machine. Plus several external USB3 and eSATA spinner HDs
Interesting feedback!
"To claim that persons who do not like W8 are moaning" Who claimed that?

"In the View options of Windows folders for every version, there has always been the ability to personalise with a choice of tiles, icons, list, etc. Yet this option is missing for the start menu in W8"

Was the Folder view" option ever in a previous start menu? Do you mean this:

View.png My choice has always been to customise it through the Control Panel on the desktop - still available. But it is also still available from the Top menu. -View. But I am confused with the last part. You mean you cannot customise the Metro icons, I suppose. I agree, and find it irritating. I did remark on that.

I have no problem with using a third party program to reinstate the old start menu. In fact, If you look at posts in Vista/7 forums - still plenty around, you will find that even there that the Classic is often being discussed and installed.
My OP was targeted at the constant claims of lack of choice, and the ensuing discussions arising from it. Accepting the third party option, no big deal, in fact the choice is fourfold. On a Tablet or stationary, you can use the "Metro", with or without the Touch facility. The old desktop can be setup precisely as it was in windows 7. The mentioned classic, and a couple of others, will take you straight to the legacy desktop, and you need never see the Metro again, if that is your choice. I just happen to use both, according to which I find most convenient.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Other Info
    Use several different computers during a day, so specs are irrelevant.
Interesting feedback!

"In the View options of Windows folders for every version, there has always been the ability to personalise with a choice of tiles, icons, list, etc. Yet this option is missing for the start menu in W8"
You missed the whole point of my post.

It's about customer preferences and M$ attitudes. We're not interested in how easy or hard it is to make it work like Win7. And we're not interested in justifying our preferences.

We resent the fact that M$ point blank refuse to cater for our preferences, when they so easily could provide those options. And we're using this forum to voice our complaint.

davehc said:
"To claim that persons who do not like W8 are moaning" Who claimed that?
So what does the title of your thread mean: "Lets stop moaning" Who are you implying is moaning, if not the Win8 disenchanted?

As I said in another post: Maybe we should have a thread entitled:

Will you upgrade to the Titanic (W8) and rearrange the deck chairs (Start Menu tiles)

... or stay in the life boat (W7)!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Built as DIY
    CPU
    6 core 12 thread & 4 core
    Motherboard
    Inel Extreme & Intel standard
    Memory
    12GB & 8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    3 top end SLI linked & onboard
    Sound Card
    In built in graphics card & onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    24 & 23 inch Samsung LED backlit
    Screen Resolution
    High def
    Hard Drives
    Corsair Force 128GB SATA3 SSDs in each machine. Plus several external USB3 and eSATA spinner HDs
We resent the fact that M$ point blank refuse to cater for our preferences, when they so easily could provide those options. And we're using this forum to voice our complaint.

So your argument is that you're mad at Ford because the Taurus doesn't look like a Porsche, because your preferences are for a Porsche... Damn them for not giving you what you want.

Companies make a product, and their products are based on the companies long term plans. Microsoft's plan is not to make Windows 7 for every version of Windows that they put out. If you don't like Windows 8, don't use it. Windows 7 is supported for another 8 years.

In order for the OS to evolve, it must change. And if they leave the options to go back, nobody will ever change. They learned that the hard way with XP. Starting in Vista, Microsoft has said "No, we will not support turning our newest products into the old products".
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    CPU
    Intel i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Z77X-UD4 TH
    Memory
    16GB DDR3 1600
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVidia GTX 650
    Sound Card
    Onboard Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Auria 27" IPS + 2x Samsung 23"
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440 + 2x 2048x1152
    Hard Drives
    Corsair m4 256GB, 2 WD 2TB drives
    Case
    Antec SOLO II
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
    Mouse
    Logitech MX
In order for the OS to evolve, it must change. And if they leave the options to go back, nobody will ever change. They learned that the hard way with XP. Starting in Vista, Microsoft has said "No, we will not support turning our newest products into the old products".
The first rule of successful marketing is to cater for supply and demand set by customer preferences. And clearly that has not happened with W8.

Change for the sake of change is a specious argument. The change must reflect what customers want and be a more efficient way of doing things. And in the opinion of many Windows supporters, W8 fails on both counts.

It's not a discussion or debate of the pros and cons. It's a statement of preferences and dissatisfaction.

Mystere said:
So your argument is that you're mad at Ford because the Taurus doesn't look like a Porsche, because your preferences are for a Porsche... Damn them for not giving you what you want.
No. I still love my Ford. And the new model runs faster than the old one. But I'm mad at them for removing the brake pedal and being forced to use a selection screen to activate the brakes. I've already stacked it three times in emergency stops and the insurance is killing me! Shame on Ford!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Built as DIY
    CPU
    6 core 12 thread & 4 core
    Motherboard
    Inel Extreme & Intel standard
    Memory
    12GB & 8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    3 top end SLI linked & onboard
    Sound Card
    In built in graphics card & onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    24 & 23 inch Samsung LED backlit
    Screen Resolution
    High def
    Hard Drives
    Corsair Force 128GB SATA3 SSDs in each machine. Plus several external USB3 and eSATA spinner HDs
The first rule of successful marketing is to cater for supply and demand set by customer preferences. And clearly that has not happened with W8.

And Microsoft believes that the world is moving to a touch-based computing model. They believe that is where the demand will be. Further, they don't want to confuse users by providing different user interfaces for touch and mouse. That's what they've been doing for 2 decades and it hasn't worked.

This is not just Microsoft. Apple is moving in the same direction. Macs don't even *HAVE* an equivalent of the start screen, or the old start menu. They just have the dock, and an applications folder.

Microsoft believes they are catering to future demand with Windows 8, they believe that traditional desktops can work just fine with this UI, but the vast majority of their revenue will come from touch based devices. Why cater to people that make up what they consider to be a tiny percentage of their future revenue?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    CPU
    Intel i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Z77X-UD4 TH
    Memory
    16GB DDR3 1600
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVidia GTX 650
    Sound Card
    Onboard Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Auria 27" IPS + 2x Samsung 23"
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440 + 2x 2048x1152
    Hard Drives
    Corsair m4 256GB, 2 WD 2TB drives
    Case
    Antec SOLO II
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
    Mouse
    Logitech MX
Hehe, a post about not arguing about Win 8 leads to more arguing about windows 8 :D

I've been involved in a lot of it myself, but... this is nothing. Wait till it's released for real and the population in the forums here /explodes/.

I guess we should get as much of it between us out of the way first before that happens.

Barman:
While what all of you say is true. Think about how /minor/ most of those changes really were. And yes people did complain. In fact I used to Scoff at people that used the classic XP/2k start menus on Vista and Windows 7. The differences were SO MINOR, mainly just looks, it made no sense to not move with the times.

But Windows 8 is COMPLETELY different. The changes are MAJOR and in may ways completely breaking. I no longer scoff and I myself will be installing Classic Shell because the Metro start is a complete disaster on the desktop IMHO.

So yeah Vista was almost sunk over what amounted to rather trivial growing pains that accompany most all OS upgrades, but XP->Vista was (to be arbitrary) a "10" on the change scale. XP/Win7 -> Win 8 is like a "100" on the same scale. Totally a different league of change. Almost more like changing OSes entirely for most casual desktop users.

Mustang:
One problem though is that I find a huge number of Win 8 supporters (Well there aren't really that many of them but a large number of them that exist) in fact denigrate those that don't like it by calling us Dinos, Afraid of change and the like. This is simply not true and shows that people that do like Windows 8 completely ignore the concerns and needs of those of us that find it completely in the way. So it goes both ways.

Microsoft has done this to us, driven a wedge right down the middle of it's loyal fan base. They didn't need too, Metro could have existed with the desktop is a MUCH more seamless way, but they got... Lazy? Greedy? I dunno, but they got something and now were paying for it.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7/8
Microsoft believes they are catering to future demand with Windows 8, they believe that traditional desktops can work just fine with this UI, but the vast majority of their revenue will come from touch based devices. Why cater to people that make up what they consider to be a tiny percentage of their future revenue?
So you would call millions of offices, defence forces, educational facilities, etc, etc, a small minority? And assume they will all happily switch from traditional desktop mouse/keyboard to touch screen?

I beg to differ. Whoever heard of a new innovative system being sold at give away prices? If it's so good and in such demand why aren't they charging accordingly? No, W8 is simply the marketing push by M$ to get their share of the existing smartfone/tablet market. And they're almost giving it away as an introductory promotional offer.

Motor vehicle manufacturers provide many options, such as auto or manual gear shift; hard top or convertible; and the list goes on. M$ could so easily provide the options we seek, but they won't. By all means have a Metro based version, but also a a few simple switches to give us what we want. Tell me why not?

Time will tell the outcome of their marketing strategy. I'm sure they will make headway in the target markets, but equally sure it will be at the cost of lost sales in other parts of the market.

Anyhoo, all of the above is off topic, which is "Time to stop moaning." And as I stated a few posts back, we are not moaning but using this forum as a vehicle to express our dissatisfaction with W8 to M$; without the need to justify or prove anything.

Whether others agree or disagree with our complaints is their business. Our busines is to try and get through to M$. However, I think the only thing that will achieve that will be the market response in October. And IMHO that is like watching the swell rise as the tsunami tidal wave gets set to break!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Built as DIY
    CPU
    6 core 12 thread & 4 core
    Motherboard
    Inel Extreme & Intel standard
    Memory
    12GB & 8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    3 top end SLI linked & onboard
    Sound Card
    In built in graphics card & onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    24 & 23 inch Samsung LED backlit
    Screen Resolution
    High def
    Hard Drives
    Corsair Force 128GB SATA3 SSDs in each machine. Plus several external USB3 and eSATA spinner HDs
"You missed the whole point of my post."

"So what does the title of your thread mean: "Lets stop moaning" Who are you implying is moaning, if not the Win8 disenchanted?"


I wonder if you even read my post, other than the title. You seem to have missed my point somewhere along the line. The whole text was a comment on the constant ongoing discussion of the Metro Start menu. If, in your opinion, that encompasses the entire Windows 8 OS, so be it!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Other Info
    Use several different computers during a day, so specs are irrelevant.
You can argue till you turn blue in the face. I'm not arguing that what Microsoft believes is true. I'm just trying to tell you why they are acting the way they are. Every so often Microsoft "bets the farm" on something. This time it's touch, and they're going into it full bore.

Like it or not, Microsoft controls the direction of their product. Not you, or me or anyone else. They dictate how it is built and what it does. If the market doesn't like it, they won't buy it. They learn their lesson.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    CPU
    Intel i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Z77X-UD4 TH
    Memory
    16GB DDR3 1600
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVidia GTX 650
    Sound Card
    Onboard Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Auria 27" IPS + 2x Samsung 23"
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440 + 2x 2048x1152
    Hard Drives
    Corsair m4 256GB, 2 WD 2TB drives
    Case
    Antec SOLO II
    Keyboard
    Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000
    Mouse
    Logitech MX
You can argue till you turn blue in the face. I'm not arguing that what Microsoft believes is true. I'm just trying to tell you why they are acting the way they are. Every so often Microsoft "bets the farm" on something. This time it's touch, and they're going into it full bore.

Like it or not, Microsoft controls the direction of their product. Not you, or me or anyone else. They dictate how it is built and what it does. If the market doesn't like it, they won't buy it. They learn their lesson.

So doesn;t that mean that in the end we DO control the direction of their product?

If they go off in the weeks badly, it is WE what will let them know it and then they will get back on the road as you say so... yes, it's important that people that don't like something speak up!

(And to be clear, no one of us anti-metro people are asking for it to be completely removed, just optionally removed or better merged with the desktop so that using one or the other or both is a seamless and user controlled experience. EVERYONE would be better off and a LOT happier if that were the case)
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7/8
Back
Top