Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums

Let's stop moaning

  1. #71


    Quote Originally Posted by mystere
    Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that most of the MONEY is going to be in devices in the coming years, and that's why MS has focused Windows 8 on touch.
    It's a lot more complex than all that. as FSeal said, but there is one more reason why it's more complicated than just More handheld devices = Less PC sales. 10 years ago, and up to 5 years ago to some extent, poeple had no other choice but buying a bulky case with a very heavy and voluminous monitor, a keyboard and a mouse, preferably on drawer under the desk they bought especialy for their computer. That's what they needed to buy if they wanted to chat online, download mp3 or send mails. Today poeple discover than they don't need to buy all these gears and can do it almost as easily (if not easilier) on deices that they can put in their pockets or their handbag. It's much more fun. Poeple hae their things that they need for what they are doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by mystere
    The fact is, the traditional PC market is dying
    It doesn't mean howeer that the poeple who did tasks which do require a PC are disapearing or that these tasks are now useless. At the ery least many poeple still feel they need a laptop with a decent monitor size. Personaly I don't see the real difference between a laptop and a desktop PC (except the size). The desktop PC become a more specific piece of engineering. Today if you buy a desktop PC, it means that you know what you are doing and you know what you will be doing with it. You know why a laptop won't be as good for that. And those who buy something smaller than a laptop also know very well why they buy it for. And it's not to use it as a PC.
    Quote Originally Posted by mystere
    and that's why MS has focused Windows 8 on touch
    Since I'm positive I'll stil use non-touch devices within the next 10 years, I can't accept that as a justification to destroy Windows-for-PC.

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  2. #72


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Windows 7 will be supported until 2020. If you don't want windows 8, you aren't being forced to buy it.

    Microsoft, however, has a lot of things they need to support in the coming years, including software that works on multiple architectures (x86 and ARM right now) and an OS that works in multiple form factors, including non-traditional ones. The entire computing paradigm has shifted, and desktops, as much as I love them, just aren't going to be where the money is. And the money is what drives new development.

    I think Microsoft believes that if they don't change, they might as well just shut down. Because there won't be any money to keep the lights on.
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  3. #73


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Nobody blames M$ for going where the $$$$ are. They'd be crazy not to. And while there's no doubt the burgeoning market for hand held mobile devices that provide social iNet and pics/vids will take away something from the traditional desktop market, it will not be that much.

    It's more a case of the overall market expanding to include a new group of devices without diminishing the old market significantly. Almost everyone I know personally have multiple devices of smartfone, laptop or tablet, AND desktop. It's not either/or, but both/and. And the reason is simple. They serve different purposes ... mobility versus flexibility. Same reason off road vehicles will never replace stretch limos.

    The real dilemma for the desktop/tower user is that M$ have virtually held a monopoly in this area of the market for a long time ... especially for the flexibility it gave the DIY enthusiast, which is the main reason, aside from cost, why everybody has not flocked to Mac.

    So if M$ go belly up in this area of the market, where do the desktop users turn?

    No doubt many will keep using W7 in the hope they will will either bring in a SP for W8 with the desired options, or sit it out till W9 comes along. Or another player enters the market.

    However, the question still remains unanswered, if M$ are looking down the barrel financially, why aren't they doing everything in their power to retain their grip on the desktop market by providing a few simple switches to give us what we want. It's not a case of can't, but won't.

    I feel they owe their past supporters that much. Or at least give us the improvements in W8 OS as a SP to W7.
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  4. #74


    Newport, South Wales, UK
    Posts : 573
    Windows 10 Pro x64 x2 Windows 10 Enterprise x64, Ubuntu


    The desktop market is no longer the only platform that Microsoft have to support, the Windows 8 Metro idea is an understandable route for them to go. business is where Microsoft have to maintain their market dominance, (the consumer market will, I think, adapt to Windows 8, as they always seem to ), and I'm sure that the movers and shakers in the big corporates IT departments were well in the loop during the design of Windows 8 and Metro, and their input is included in what we see now

    One area that may cause Microsoft more concern is the talk, in major corporations, of migration back to the old distributed computing model, low power, thin client "Dumb" terminals on the desk fed from servers. With the internet infrastructure now at the level it is (in the developed world ), the possibility of distributed computing to branch offices is a possibility, of course Microsoft is not ignoring this possibility with the push to cloud services and virtualisation.

    Time will tell

    It's been over fifteen years since the last major refresh to the UI of Windows, the Start Button in windows 95, who knows perhaps Metro will become as much of an institution as the start menu
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  5. #75


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Quote Originally Posted by Barman58 View Post
    The desktop market is no longer the only platform that Microsoft have to support, the Windows 8 Metro idea is an understandable route for them to go. business is where Microsoft have to maintain their market dominance.
    That's fair enough, and no one is asking them to stop supporting Metro and making it their priority, but why not support both when it's so simple to do as evidenced by Classic Shell?

    It's almost like they've gone out of their way to kill the desktop off. Why disenchant that group of consumers?

    I can't really see an alpha numeric start menu ever being replaced by a tile start menu, simply because the former is so compact, occupying so little space to hold so much information, and efficient. I believe consumer demand will bring it back.
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  6. #76


    Newport, South Wales, UK
    Posts : 573
    Windows 10 Pro x64 x2 Windows 10 Enterprise x64, Ubuntu


    Oh I agree that the IFKAM selection method is not as useful to me for program selection as the start menu, but I've been using the start menu everyday for probably 8 hours a day since 1995

    I'm learning the interface slowly and the underlying OS has it's benefits, I've been on a smartphone daily for about 18 months now and so can see that a alternative UI has its merits, the Tiled UI is the only way for some devices, so would the retention of the Start button interface cause more confusion in the long term, I don't know (my crystal ball had a BSOD in the night ), I'ts a brave decision by Microsoft but if it's a right one Who Knows, the major markets will decide in october .

    (IFKAM = The Interface Formally Known as Metro)
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  7. #77


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    why not support both when it's so simple to do as evidenced by Classic Shell
    MS want to keep showing you the start screen - that is how they get you to into their online services and apps.

    That is why they don't want you to boot straight to desktop and have another steering wheel ( e.g. start menu ).


    You are right - they could have included both - but they didn't for the above reason.
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  8. #78


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Quote Originally Posted by Barman58 View Post
    The Tiled UI is the only way for some devices.
    Yes I certainly agree that a tiled menu is the best UI for smartfones/tablets; but not for traditional desktop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barman58 View Post
    I don't know, (my crystal ball had a BSOD in the night)
    Good call Barman, you got a genuine laugh out of me with that one.

    And yes, in the final analysis, only time will tell. Or as my dear departed mother used to say: " God only knows, and He wont' tell!" However, I might hazard a guess ...!

    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2
    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang
    Why not support both when it's so simple to do as evidenced by Classic Shell
    MS want to keep showing you the start screen - that is how they get you to into their online services and apps.

    That is why they don't want you to boot straight to desktop and have another steering wheel ( e.g. start menu ).

    You are right - they could have included both - but they didn't for the above reason.
    Yes, have to agree, that's the only logical answer that makes any sense to me.
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  9. #79


    BELGIUM
    Posts : 503
    WINDOWS 8.1 x64


    "Jeff, I was actually complimenting win2000 "

    Yes Barman, I know, but I was not that crazy about Win2000

    Jeff
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  10. #80


    Newport, South Wales, UK
    Posts : 573
    Windows 10 Pro x64 x2 Windows 10 Enterprise x64, Ubuntu


    Jeff,
    my first experience with Win2000 was a system with two servers and about 50 workstations most of which were involved in real time data acquisition from various exotic hardware, It all communicated on day one and never failed at all during testing, (and as far as I know never in service, Other than a drive failure, in a redundant array, so the system never even stuttered).

    After a few years fighting with windows NT, ( which was stable compared to the consumer OSs of the day), it was such a refreshing change, win 2000 could do no wrong from then on, and it rarely did, just like win7 has been for me
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Let's stop moaning
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