Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums

Let's stop moaning

  1. #51


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Off topic: Nobody else seems to care about being off-topic so I might as well join the gold rush!

    With Win7 I have:

    • For quick access: 42 desktop shortcuts for my most used programs; which includes ones to USB external HDs, eSATA HDs, Storage partition on main HD and optical drives. They occupy about 20% max of availabe space using full HD resolution and small icons. And are arragned in four groups.
    • For periodic access: 8 short cuts pinned to Start Menu jump list.
    • For infrequent items: Legacy start menu with over 300 items counting main menu, sub-menu and sub-sub-menu. And I want all of these items.


    This gives me everything Metro has to offer except apps, which I don't want.

    And allows me to perform every operation I need to do without ever having to leave the desktop. With 24 inch wide screen I sometimes have up to 4 or 5 windows open at any given time, which may include word, excel, publisher, IE, etc. And with full HD res they are small enough to easily inter-navigate in order to create, copy/paste, drag/drop, store, move, edit, access iNet, etc.

    What's so important about not having to leave the desktop?

    It strikes me as pure insanity to have to leave the desktop, and scrol, scroll, scroll through those 300 items spread across God knows how many windows as tiles, in order to access the one odd item in a sub-menu or sub-sub-menu. Then, when I have found it, come back to the desktop and need to re-orientate to where everything is. And believe it or not, that is important when you have a heap of windows open at the same time. And then having to do this every time I need one of those items.

    Maybe I'm a bit thick, but to me it's a no brainer! How hard is it to find a letter in an alphabetical list and click it? And without losing you're orientation to the desktop; and having the ability to have 3, 4, 5 or more sub-menus open at the same time if need be.

    Sure I can spend hours organizing Metro tiles, using Classic Shell, etc, etc. But why would I want to do this when it's all laid out for me in alphabetical order in a legacy start menu as per Win7?

    My beefs with M$ are:

    • Metro is summarily forced on the user to promote their apps.
    • Why they haven't either provided an alternative version of W8 for desktop; or switches to by-pass Metro and include a legacy start menu.
    • Or at minimum, include the improvements in W8 OS in a SP for W7.


    By all means feel free to critically appraise my logic. And call me inflexible if you want. But my point of view on this is set in concrete.

    So the question then becomes: What to do if M$ persist in the tablet/smartfone GUI over the long term?

    To me that would be a real shame as I prefer to stick with M$. So my choices are:

    • Get the better performance of W8 by using work arounds. Maybe as tinker toy on other PC?
    • Stick with W7 for as long as it's supported. Probably the most likely.
    • Hope that another player enters the desktop market with the features I desire. Crystal ball stuff!
    Last edited by Mustang; 26 Aug 2012 at 00:58.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #52


    Posts : 8
    win7


    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
    Off topic: Nobody else seems to care about being off-topic so I might as well join the gold rush!

    With Win7 I have:

    • For quick access: 42 desktop shortcuts for my most used programs; which includes ones to USB external HDs, eSATA HDs, Storage partition on main HD and optical drives. They occupy about 20% max of availabe space using full HD resolution and small icons. And are arragned in four groups.
    • For periodic access: 8 short cuts pinned to Start Menu jump list.
    • For infrequent items: Legacy start menu with over 300 items counting main menu, sub-menu and sub-sub-menu. And I want all of these items.


    This gives me everything Metro has to offer except apps, which I don't want.

    And allows me to perform every operation I need to do without ever having to leave the desktop. With 24 inch wide screen I sometimes have up to 4 or 5 windows open at any given time, which may include word, excel, publisher, IE, etc. And with full HD res they are small enough to easily inter-navigate in order to create, copy/paste, drag/drop, store, move, edit, access iNet, etc.

    What's so important about not having to leave the desktop?

    It strikes me as pure insanity to have to leave the desktop, and scrol, scroll, scroll through those 300 items spread across God knows how many windows as tiles, in order to access the one odd item in a sub-menu or sub-sub-menu. Then, when I have found it, come back to the desktop and need to re-orientate to where everything is. And believe it or not, that is important when you have a heap of windows open at the same time. And then having to do this every time I need one of those items.

    Maybe I'm a bit thick, but to me it's a no brainer! How hard is it to find a letter in an alphabetical list and click it? And without losing you're orientation to the desktop; and having the ability to have 3, 4, 5 or more sub-menus open at the same time if need be.

    Sure I can spend hours organizing Metro tiles, using Classic Shell, etc, etc. But why would I want to do this when it's all laid out for me in alphabetical order in a legacy start menu as per Win7?

    My beefs with M$ are:

    • Metro is summarily forced on the user to promote their apps.
    • Why they haven't either provided an alternative version of W8 for desktop; or switches to by-pass Metro and include a legacy start menu.
    • Or at minimum, include the improvements in W8 OS in a SP for W7.


    By all means feel free to critically appraise my logic. And call me inflexible if you want. But my point of view on this is set in concrete.

    So the question then becomes: What to do if M$ persist in the tablet/smartfone GUI over the long term?

    To me that would be a real shame as I prefer to stick with M$. So my choices are:

    • Get the better performance of W8 by using work arounds. Maybe as tinker toy on other PC?
    • Stick with W7 for as long as it's supported. Probably the most likely.
    • Hope that another player enters the desktop market with the features I desire. Crystal ball stuff!
    simple
    Then don't use Win8
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #53


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Quote Originally Posted by iforgot View Post
    simple
    Then don't use Win8
    Covered that in my post ... not using it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang
    Stick with W7 for as long as it's supported. Probably the most likely.
    But would like to use it if M$ came to the party which apparently ain't gonna happen. Therein lies the dilemma. And why I listed my beefs with M$ and my possible options.
    Last edited by Mustang; 26 Aug 2012 at 03:25.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #54


    Posts : 8
    win7


    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by iforgot View Post
    simple
    Then don't use Win8
    Covered that in my post ... not using it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang
    Stick with W7 for as long as it's supported. Probably the most likely.
    But would like to use it if M$ came to the party which apparently ain't gonna happen. Therein lies the dilemma. And why I listed my beefs with M$ and my possible options.
    Sorry Mustang
    I shouldn't really leave a short answer like that.... but
    I couldn't resist

    I can't see M$ stopping win7 for a far while,,,,, There's a lot of companies out there still using XP..

    As I see it.
    M$ wants the same action as the Fruit Company..
    Being, pay all the time.
    They've been pushing the cloud for a far while now also, same reason, pay all the time.

    As there are so many M$ corporate users out there, they cannot shoot themself in the foot and say this is it, the old windows are out, no more, finito..
    Their business structure would collapse, not to mention the companies around the world already locked into M$ .

    Win8 is where M$ wants to go.

    It will take time for the change to happen

    In the meantime I'll be using win7/Linux.
    And the only reason for my win7 is that's my work is backward and still using M$
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #55


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)


    Quote Originally Posted by davehc View Post
    Got me there, lehnerus. If I am thinking about the same feature to which you refer? You mean that "advanced options" if you used a Windows (7) basic theme?
    Yes that's what I was referring to.

    BTW, it's not limited to the Basic themes (I'm using a modified Aero theme).
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #56


    Posts : 8
    win7


    Mustang

    There has to be reasons to upgrade to the next O/S version.

    Whether it's hardware support or some application functionality, otherwise why change?
    Just because it's new doesn't mean it's better......
    ie M$ always wait for the first service pack release......

    Or is it just for a prettier GUI
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #57


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Quote Originally Posted by iforgot View Post
    Mustang

    There has to be reasons to upgrade to the next O/S version.

    Whether it's hardware support or some application functionality, otherwise why change?
    Just because it's new doesn't mean it's better......
    ie M$ always wait for the first service pack release......

    Or is it just for a prettier GUI
    Yeah, agree. Soz if a bit short in my previous reply and thanks for input.

    I've always bought the next version of Windows from 98 thro to 7 except for Millenium. Currently got Vista on backup machine and with all updates and correct drivers and good CUP/mobo plus SATA3 SSD HD it runs very well ... not far behind 7 on a better machine. I've kept Vista because I never felt I'd got my money's worth out of it. Mainly wanted 8 for improved OS and also to keep up to speed. But you're right. In the past I've always waited until SP1 before buying.

    Cheers M
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #58


    Posts : 8
    win7


    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by iforgot View Post
    Mustang

    There has to be reasons to upgrade to the next O/S version.

    Whether it's hardware support or some application functionality, otherwise why change?
    Just because it's new doesn't mean it's better......
    ie M$ always wait for the first service pack release......

    Or is it just for a prettier GUI
    Yeah, agree. Soz if a bit short in my previous reply and thanks for input.

    I've always bought the next version of Windows from 98 thro to 7 except for Millenium. Currently got Vista on backup machine and with all updates and correct drivers and good CUP/mobo plus SATA3 SSD HD it runs very well ... not far behind 7 on a better machine. I've kept Vista because I never felt I'd got my money's worth out of it. Mainly wanted 8 for improved OS and also to keep up to speed. But you're right. In the past I've always waited until SP1 before buying.

    Cheers M
    On the vista pc, just turn most of the services off at startup.
    Not disable, just start when needed, same as win7 does.

    Not sure were Win8 is up to on this.
    What the kernel version of Win8?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #59


    Newport, South Wales, UK
    Posts : 573
    Windows 10 Pro x64 x2 Windows 10 Enterprise x64, Ubuntu


    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
    {Snip}
    With Win7 I have:

    • For quick access: 42 desktop shortcuts for my most used programs; which includes ones to USB external HDs, eSATA HDs, Storage partition on main HD and optical drives. They occupy about 20% max of availabe space using full HD resolution and small icons. And are arragned in four groups.
    • For periodic access: 8 short cuts pinned to Start Menu jump list.
    • For infrequent items: Legacy start menu with over 300 items counting main menu, sub-menu and sub-sub-menu. And I want all of these items.


    This gives me everything Metro has to offer except apps, which I don't want. {/Snip}


    (Mustang, this post is not a dig at you but your post does actually help me illustrate my thoughts )

    I can fully understand this but you would have to admit that this requirement is atypical for the vast majority of PC users, (and I include the small minority of non Wintel users here).

    The vast majority of PC users probably use no more then half a dozen applications, a browser, a photo app, video player, music player, something to write letters with, and in the case of business users, an application or two to perform their work with, most users don't even use an email application any more, (I, myself, used to be an avid user of either Thunderbird or Outlook, but now find my Smartphone and browser do the job just as well).

    OK if we assume the majority to be 95% of all users, (take away non Wintel users, so that's 95% then ), who, By the way will also never perform an upgrade to their operating system, this has to be the design target market for Microsoft, not the 5% of professionals and specialists.

    If we take a look at the Metro interface from the view of one of the majority, what does it give us?

    A simple interface that, follows the same operating concept as the one on my smart phone and tablet, (maybe not exactly the same unless Microsoft Phone and Surface take off, but close enough), It has simple access to do all the things I do on my computer, (all six of them ), I have live tiles when I switch on that show me what's happening in my world, and it does all those strange backing-up and geeky things for me.

    Looks more attractive now?

    No the metro interface is not ideal for us geeks, But, it probably is for the majority, which is where Microsoft makes it's money, and I do not think that is a bad thing, Microsoft are a Business not a Charity, why shouldn't they try to make as much money as possible?

    Is Microsoft aware that the Void due to the shortcomings of Metro for the specialist user will be filled by 3rd parties, of course they are, and already I could if I wish run Windows 8 as if it were Windows 7 from a look and feel view, with a lot of the deeper tasks in a look and feel of XP if I really wanted to.

    Us specialists, the Pros, Enthusiasts, or just geeks, are never the target audience for a new OS, we have to learn to live with it.

    Personally the jury is still out with regards to Metro, but I'll, evaluate it, learn it, and eventually support it, as I have with so many operating systems before
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #60


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Thanks for the input Barman. I can see the logic of you post, and certainly don't begrudge M$ as a busines to seek the market that brings in the greatest return ... they'd be crazy not to.

    However, why do they refuse to provide switches for direct boot to desktop and legacy start menu for geeks, etc? It's a simple thing to do. And surely something they wouldn't begrudge their loyal army of supporters over the past few decades. But not only did they not provide it, they proactively blocked the early regedits to provide direct access to desktop. That seems very mean spirited to me.

    No doubt the multitude of persons familiar with smartfones will have no problem adapting to and using the Metro start menu. But I would seriously question the efficacy of that with businesses, government offices, educational facilities, defence/police forces, and a multitude of others who are accustomed to and want/need a traditional desktop ... especially a start menu. IMHO there will be a huge outcry at the loss of this, which will not be heard until it's gone.

    Anyhoo, as has alredy been stated, time and the consumers will be the final judge. And yes, it's true my rig is atypical with extreme mobo/cpu (12 threads), 3 GTX graphic cards SLI bridged, 12GB RAM, and SATA3 SSD HD. But with that setup I don't really see any significant degree of speed increase with W8 over W7, if any. So I will continue to use W7, at least for my main OS, until I'm forced to upgrade, or a SP comes out which gives the desired options in W8.

    I'm open minded but for my purposes can't see a better setup than I already have with W7.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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